Feds (ICE) Raid 7-11 Stores in 17 States Looking for Illegal Aliens

[usmbguest5318]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, US Federal (ICE) agents raided 7-11 stores in 17 states, looking for Illegal Aliens and demanding historical hiring documentation of the franchisees (owners).

How many illegals did they arrest in the 98 markets in which the raids were conducted? AFAIK, the answer is 21.

• ICE raids about 100 7-Eleven stores nationwide to find undocumented workers in latest Trump effort
  
• Immigration officers raid 7-Eleven stores, arrest 21 people
  
• ICE raids 7-Eleven stores nationwide in crackdown officials call 'a harbinger of what’s to come'

It's just a drop in the bucket and easily countered,

Um....21 arrests across 98 markets with a resource load of at least 475 ICE agents, assuming the staffing shown in the OP's photo is normal and accurate and only one team is needed per market. I think "waste of money" is a better term for what it was than is "drop in the bucket."

Will it last?

At that paltry rate of return, I sure hope not!​

The question below does not present a mutually exclusive pair of alternatives and there are other alternatives. They really should just be distinct questions, and I've responded to them as though they are.

• False Dilemma

Is this just the beginning, or is this an isolated burst of 'showmanship' as stimulus and prelude to negotiations in Congress?

I have no idea.

Is this just the beginning, or is this an isolated burst of 'showmanship' as stimulus and prelude to negotiations in Congress?

Likely so. Nearly everything Trump-related/-conceived is big on rhetoric and appearances yet thin on substance.​

Will this (and a few others?) be enough to scare-off many employers from hiring Illegal Aliens, or retaining them on-payroll moving forward?

I can't say. What I can say is that no firms or individuals I'm aware of -- not my own, not my clients' and not my firm's key competitors; my I, not my friends -- hire illegal immigrants and others who are ineligible for employment in the U.S.

AFAIK and in the main, to the extent that illegal immigrants obtain/have sources of incomes, they obtain them by working as self-employed individuals. They may do so as day laborers, odd-jobbers, landscapers/gardeners, housekeepers, etc., pretty much anything where being paid in cash is common and so-called job security is far from certain. Of such workers, their customers are under no obligation to determine whether they are illegal or illegal immigrants provided the nature of the business relationship they have is that of contractor and client, not that of employer and employee.

We just charge a few employers with big fines, and the rest will stop on their own.

Have you actually endeavored cogently and soundly to quantify the proposition you just presented? If so, I'd love to see your analysis. If you haven't I suggest you discern what share of employers have illegal immigrants on their payrolls.

I know I've tried to find that information and had no success. I can find lots of information from all manners of sources from grossly partisan to highly rigorous and objective (and everything in between) that discuss, review, opine upon, whatever...every imaginable aspect of the impacts of immigration, illegal immigration, immigrants and illegal immigrants, but I cannot find one thing that quantifies the average quantity or rate of illegal immigrant employment among individual companies.

The closest I've come to finding information I can use to impute the information needed to quantify the proposition you presented is the content found here: Chapter 2: Industries of Unauthorized Immigrant Workers.

​

While I see the information there, as a principal in the professional business services industry (management consulting), the information presented for that industry doesn't at all align with the firms with which I'm very familiar with their employment practices/policies. Maybe the figures represent "mom and pop" professional business services firms that engage an illegal immigrant to do the housekeeping, and that, frankly, wouldn't surprise me. Neither would it surprise me that large firms like my own may at any given point have individuals on staff who, due to timing factors, find themselves briefly (a few days to a week at most) in an illegal status as they await an extension of their authorization to work in the U.S. However, the notion that professional business services firms have large-enough quantities of illegals on their payroll, particularly the low-skilled ones crossing the Mexican border, large enough quantities that they could even be subject to a "big fine," defies all reason.

Where I suspect one finds illegals is in the "other services" segment of the "professional, business & other services" industry. According to Pew Research:

The "other services" segment includes: landscaping and waste management, to personal services such as dry cleaning, nail salons, car washes and religious organizations. [1] Some 18% are in the leisure and hospitality sector, and 16% are in the construction industry. More than half (55%) of unauthorized immigrant workers are employed in these three sectors, compared with only 31% of U.S.-born workers.

Unauthorized immigrants are particularly concentrated in some subsets of each major industry. In 2012, they represented 24% of workers in the landscaping industry, 23% of those in private household employment, 20% of those in apparel manufacturing, 20% in crop production, 19% in the dry cleaning and laundry industry and 19% of those in building maintenance.
​

Even using the information in table B3 and making the absurd assumption that illegal immigrants are evenly spread among all employers in the industry, one finds that in many cases very few illegals would be employed by any given employer. Take agriculture for example. Using the assumption just stated, one finds an average of ~20 illegal workers per employer, which amounts to $40K or less for a first offense or $200K for a third 20-person infraction. That's not at all a "big fine" insofar as the average revenue per worker in agriculture is ~$1.2M/year.

Therein is seen the preposterousness of your "big fine" proposition. The fine amounts need to be materially increased so they alter the value proposition, yet you and myriad others here haven't (that I know of) addressed that aspect of the matter. Quite simply, (1) the "penetration rate" of illegals at any given employer isn't going to be great enough and (2) there is no structure for assessing "big fines." Your proposition might be credible were those things in place to make "big fines" a possibility, but they're not in place like that now; thus your proposition is little but an illustration of your having "rushed in where angels fear to tread," or, if you prefer, "putting the cart ahead of the horse." Were you (others) to do some sort of halfway reasonable "back of the napkin" analysis instead of spouting off half-cocked, that wouldn't happen. [2]


Notes:

1. Housekeeping falls in there somewhere, except when it is done as part of hospitality, in which case one is often again faced with the same incongruity I noted above regarding firms like mine.
2. I don't recognize your ID, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying that. I realize there are folks here for whom, analysis or no analysis of whatever rigor, it'd still happen.

 

[alang1216]

IF the government is doing their job, and fining the crap out of employers, illegals are no longer "less costly".

And there are plenty of struggling American citizens, to whom a couple bucks an hour MORE, would make quite a difference to.


Long term? Long term is a long time from now. I want jobs for Americans today. ALL THE JOBS.

I hear you but I'm not convinced it is a zero-sum game. Everyone living here, legally or not, creates jobs that support them: construction of houses, health care, transportation, etc. More people = more jobs.

Perhaps not zero sum, but the illegals were not creating jobs where they came from, for some reason.


You never hear Mexico complaining that the people moving here are slowing their economy.

Mexico isn't the one building the wall to keep those job creators in their country.

If you're only concerned with the short term you may be disappointed.

Here is a different viewpoint:

 

[alang1216]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

 

[Correll]

IF the government is doing their job, and fining the crap out of employers, illegals are no longer "less costly".

And there are plenty of struggling American citizens, to whom a couple bucks an hour MORE, would make quite a difference to.


Long term? Long term is a long time from now. I want jobs for Americans today. ALL THE JOBS.

I hear you but I'm not convinced it is a zero-sum game. Everyone living here, legally or not, creates jobs that support them: construction of houses, health care, transportation, etc. More people = more jobs.

Perhaps not zero sum, but the illegals were not creating jobs where they came from, for some reason.


You never hear Mexico complaining that the people moving here are slowing their economy.

Mexico isn't the one building the wall to keep those job creators in their country.

If you're only concerned with the short term you may be disappointed.

Here is a different viewpoint:

First of all, from your linked article, and yes I did see them discussing lost revenue and macro economic numbers.


"While economists from differing political views acknowledge cracking down on immigration led to wage increases and job opportunities for native workers — not to mention saved money on health care and education costs "



"The good news: Median income of “low-skilled whites” who were employed rose 6 percent since 2008."


"Wages rose for farm workers (15 percent) and construction workers (10 percent) as Arizona’s economy made a comeback, "




The loss of overall domestic product is true, but crafting policy on such broad macro economic numbers ignores that the cost and the benefits of polices do not fall evenly on the population.

Richer people benefit from cheaper labor, and more consumers.


Poor people suffer from decreased jobs and wages.


Our policies have been screwing the working poor and middle class of America for a long time. They need some attention.





As to the video, I am the one that is constantly fighting against the false stereo type of illegals as farm workers.


That they are taking more and better jobs is not a plus, from my perspective.


ONe thing I did note was the way the man spoke of the immigrants, legal and illegal, as part of the Mexican Nation, even though most of them would be legal US citizens.


That type of thinking is a potential bomb in the middle of our Body Politic.

 

[JQPublic1]

Your continued dodging is noted.


Should I take that as an admission you were one of those libs and now are dancing and deflection to avoid having to eat crow, now that your claims are revealed to be the words of a fool?


This is for you.

And this is for YOU:

Trump administration has deported fewer illegal Mexican immigrants than Obama, data show

Haha...You Loons have no credibility...you never tell the whole truth.
Arrests of illegal wetbacks is up by more than 4,000 per month under the Trump admin. So many were arrested early on that immigration courts became backlogged. (thanks to road blocks created by Hussein Obeaner) The number being deported has slowed as the court system plays catch-up.

“Immigration courts have long been overburdened, with regular deportation cases taking up to two years to complete because of the volume of cases. The Trump administration has added to that backlog by arresting more people and cutting back on the Obama administration policy of allowing undocumented immigrants to be free on bond as they await their court hearings.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has dispatched 25 more immigration judges to detention centers along the southwest border with Mexico and wants to add more. The Justice Department's goal is to hire 50 immigration judges this year and 75 in the following year.”
Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump

Obama didn't have back logs in court because he thought it out before he acted. Trump and Sessions decided that they were going to arrest people and didn't account for where to put these people while awaiting court. Without bail they're going to be in prisons or something living off on the taxpayers. Obama had the foresight to know that allowing up some money in case they fled was far more of a burden is the klusterfuk that's going on

Your continued dodging is noted.


Should I take that as an admission you were one of those libs and now are dancing and deflection to avoid having to eat crow, now that your claims are revealed to be the words of a fool?


This is for you.

And this is for YOU:

Trump administration has deported fewer illegal Mexican immigrants than Obama, data show

Haha...You Loons have no credibility...you never tell the whole truth.
Arrests of illegal wetbacks is up by more than 4,000 per month under the Trump admin. So many were arrested early on that immigration courts became backlogged. (thanks to road blocks created by Hussein Obeaner) The number being deported has slowed as the court system plays catch-up.

“Immigration courts have long been overburdened, with regular deportation cases taking up to two years to complete because of the volume of cases. The Trump administration has added to that backlog by arresting more people and cutting back on the Obama administration policy of allowing undocumented immigrants to be free on bond as they await their court hearings.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has dispatched 25 more immigration judges to detention centers along the southwest border with Mexico and wants to add more. The Justice Department's goal is to hire 50 immigration judges this year and 75 in the following year.”
Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump

Obama's use of the immigration bond device generated millions for the US treasury and the courts never got bogged down with backlogs because Obama thought things through before acting. Trump and Sessions Didn't think things through before arresting people snd denying them bond. Tax payes now have to house and feed the arrestees while Obamas bond plan put money in the US Treasury.

Spoiler

much do immigration bonds cost?

Spoiler

Either ICE or an immigration judge will set the bond amount, and the amount will increase or decrease based on several factors, such as the person's immigration status, criminal history, employment situation, and family ties in the United States. The higher the flight risk, the higher the bond amount. The usual minimum amount for a delivery bond is $1,500, and the cost can increase up to $10,000 or more depending on an assessment of the detainee's risk factors. For departure bonds, the minimum amount is typically $500. One important thing to keep in mind is that it sometimes take a year or longer for the government to return the bond money to the person who posted it.

How do I get an immigration bond?
There are two ways to pay for an immigration bond:

1. Surety bond– The detainee's friends or family can work with an immigration bond agent to get a surety bond. The agent will typically charge 15-20% of the total bond amount, and the money or collateral you furnish is non-refundable.
2. Cash bond – The detainee's friends or family can pay the full bond amount directly to ICE, and that money will be refunded once the detainee has attended all mandatory hearings in immigration court. The cash bond can be paid by cash, money order, Cashier's check, or U.S. bonds or notes.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Your continued dodging is noted.


Should I take that as an admission you were one of those libs and now are dancing and deflection to avoid having to eat crow, now that your claims are revealed to be the words of a fool?


This is for you.

And this is for YOU:

Trump administration has deported fewer illegal Mexican immigrants than Obama, data show

Haha...You Loons have no credibility...you never tell the whole truth.
Arrests of illegal wetbacks is up by more than 4,000 per month under the Trump admin. So many were arrested early on that immigration courts became backlogged. (thanks to road blocks created by Hussein Obeaner) The number being deported has slowed as the court system plays catch-up.

“Immigration courts have long been overburdened, with regular deportation cases taking up to two years to complete because of the volume of cases. The Trump administration has added to that backlog by arresting more people and cutting back on the Obama administration policy of allowing undocumented immigrants to be free on bond as they await their court hearings.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has dispatched 25 more immigration judges to detention centers along the southwest border with Mexico and wants to add more. The Justice Department's goal is to hire 50 immigration judges this year and 75 in the following year.”
Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump

Obama didn't have back logs in court because he thought it out before he acted. Trump and Sessions decided that they were going to arrest people and didn't account for where to put these people while awaiting court. Without bail they're going to be in prisons or something living off on the taxpayers. Obama had the foresight to know that allowing up some money in case they fled was far more of a burden is the klusterfuk that's going on

Your continued dodging is noted.


Should I take that as an admission you were one of those libs and now are dancing and deflection to avoid having to eat crow, now that your claims are revealed to be the words of a fool?


This is for you.

And this is for YOU:

Trump administration has deported fewer illegal Mexican immigrants than Obama, data show

Haha...You Loons have no credibility...you never tell the whole truth.
Arrests of illegal wetbacks is up by more than 4,000 per month under the Trump admin. So many were arrested early on that immigration courts became backlogged. (thanks to road blocks created by Hussein Obeaner) The number being deported has slowed as the court system plays catch-up.

“Immigration courts have long been overburdened, with regular deportation cases taking up to two years to complete because of the volume of cases. The Trump administration has added to that backlog by arresting more people and cutting back on the Obama administration policy of allowing undocumented immigrants to be free on bond as they await their court hearings.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has dispatched 25 more immigration judges to detention centers along the southwest border with Mexico and wants to add more. The Justice Department's goal is to hire 50 immigration judges this year and 75 in the following year.”
Immigration arrests up, deportations down under Trump

Obama's use of the immigration bond device generated millions for the US treasury and the courts never got bogged down with backlogs because Obama thought things through before acting. Trump and Sessions Didn't think things through before arresting people snd denying them bond. Tax payes now have to house and feed the arrestees while Obamas bond plan put money in the US Treasury.

Spoiler

much do immigration bonds cost?

Spoiler

Either ICE or an immigration judge will set the bond amount, and the amount will increase or decrease based on several factors, such as the person's immigration status, criminal history, employment situation, and family ties in the United States. The higher the flight risk, the higher the bond amount. The usual minimum amount for a delivery bond is $1,500, and the cost can increase up to $10,000 or more depending on an assessment of the detainee's risk factors. For departure bonds, the minimum amount is typically $500. One important thing to keep in mind is that it sometimes take a year or longer for the government to return the bond money to the person who posted it.

How do I get an immigration bond?
There are two ways to pay for an immigration bond:

1. Surety bond– The detainee's friends or family can work with an immigration bond agent to get a surety bond. The agent will typically charge 15-20% of the total bond amount, and the money or collateral you furnish is non-refundable.
2. Cash bond – The detainee's friends or family can pay the full bond amount directly to ICE, and that money will be refunded once the detainee has attended all mandatory hearings in immigration court. The cash bond can be paid by cash, money order, Cashier's check, or U.S. bonds or notes.

Or they could be out there helping build the wall. We need those on the southern side to not be able to come back in once it is done.

 

[JQPublic1]

But the Corrupt and Racist Democratic Party prefers illegal aliens over American citizens.

Use the word SOME and I might agree to some degree. But Republican business owners and farm owners love that cheap labor too. And everyone knows the GOP cares less about the common American folks than the Democrats do.

Actually Democrats call average mainstream Americans names like uneudcated, deplorable, nazis .....
The racist Aztlan Nationalist Democrats brag about making America part of Mexico.
People have a 100% right to complain about illegal immigration because it's bad for our country.

As I recall it was Trump who said he loved the poorly educated. But the deplorable Nazi label would fit those nut huggers who welcome the likes of David Duke, Bannon, and the RW Guru, Ronald (apartheid loving) Reagan. Yes, thats the same Reagan who allowed Latin American Drug cartels to sell drugs in the USA so he could raise money to help fight the communists in South America. So what would you call those nasty racist pigs,

The Democratic Party is fighting against racism, hate and violence…..well except for the racist Nation of Islam Democrats, racist Klan Democrats, racist La Raza Democrats, racist BLM Democrats, Muslim Brotherhood bigots, racist LULAC Democrats, CAIR bigots, racist Black Panther Democrats, racist Aztlan Nationalist Democrats, racist Affirmative Action advocate Democrats, racist Sanctuary City Democrats, violent Antifa bigots, and all of the nasty racist demagogue Democrat Politicians, Pundits, Entertainers and Athletes………well actually voting Democrat IS HATE

Do you hate any of the groups you just mentioned?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

But the Corrupt and Racist Democratic Party prefers illegal aliens over American citizens.

Use the word SOME and I might agree to some degree. But Republican business owners and farm owners love that cheap labor too. And everyone knows the GOP cares less about the common American folks than the Democrats do.

Actually Democrats call average mainstream Americans names like uneudcated, deplorable, nazis .....
The racist Aztlan Nationalist Democrats brag about making America part of Mexico.
People have a 100% right to complain about illegal immigration because it's bad for our country.

As I recall it was Trump who said he loved the poorly educated. But the deplorable Nazi label would fit those nut huggers who welcome the likes of David Duke, Bannon, and the RW Guru, Ronald (apartheid loving) Reagan. Yes, thats the same Reagan who allowed Latin American Drug cartels to sell drugs in the USA so he could raise money to help fight the communists in South America. So what would you call those nasty racist pigs,

The Democratic Party is fighting against racism, hate and violence…..well except for the racist Nation of Islam Democrats, racist Klan Democrats, racist La Raza Democrats, racist BLM Democrats, Muslim Brotherhood bigots, racist LULAC Democrats, CAIR bigots, racist Black Panther Democrats, racist Aztlan Nationalist Democrats, racist Affirmative Action advocate Democrats, racist Sanctuary City Democrats, violent Antifa bigots, and all of the nasty racist demagogue Democrat Politicians, Pundits, Entertainers and Athletes………well actually voting Democrat IS HATE

Do you hate any of the groups you just mentioned?

I personally, am a equal opportunity hater. I hate all liberals who think that my money should be their money. I hate everyone who must use race as a crutch so they can get an advantage over everyone else. I hate everyone who says I should pay more taxes then avoids paying more taxes because they use "tax loopholes". I hate Hollyweed, because they say I am immoral yet every day they prove they are the immoral ones. I hate Mooslims who want to kill US citizens. I hate BLM who wants to kill policemen then want policemen to save them from a sniper. I hate liberals who burn cities and punch women. Have I missed any one that I can hate?

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

Hey, the it was Bill Clinton and Barry Obama who praised Klansman Robert Byrd's life work.
That was THIS century.

 

[alang1216]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

Hey, the it was Bill Clinton and Barry Obama who praised Klansman Robert Byrd's life work.
That was THIS century.

Byrd renounced his Klan past over 40 years ago and has since apologized. I don't think either Obama or Clinton would have praised him otherwise.

 

[Syriusly]

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, US Federal (ICE) agents raided 7-11 stores in 17 states, looking for Illegal Aliens and demanding historical hiring documentation of the franchisees (owners).

http://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/us/7-eleven-raids-ice.html

It would appear that the Trump Administration is becoming serious about flushing-out Illegals and punishing their employers.

It's just a drop in the bucket and easily countered, but it's a start.

Will it last?

Is this just the beginning, or is this an isolated burst of 'showmanship' as stimulus and prelude to negotiations in Congress?

Will this (and a few others?) be enough to scare-off many employers from hiring Illegal Aliens, or retaining them on-payroll moving forward?

As a liberal I think this is a good start.

BUT- I think it is curious that they went after a business that has franchisees rather than a retailer with their own employees.

I would rather see them go after construction companies and meat packing companies- both of which have well known issues with hiring undocumented labor.

 

[Syriusly]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

Hey, the it was Bill Clinton and Barry Obama who praised Klansman Robert Byrd's life work.
That was THIS century.

Oh more than just Bill Clinton and Barack Obama- lets not forget:
Mitch McConnell also praised Robert Byrd's life and work.

And the NAACP- noting

“Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation,” stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. “Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

Hey, the it was Bill Clinton and Barry Obama who praised Klansman Robert Byrd's life work.
That was THIS century.

Byrd renounced his Klan past over 40 years ago and has since apologized. I don't think either Obama or Clinton would have praised him otherwise.

Oh, so Democrats are OK with electing a "former" Klansman to the Senate 6 times LMAO

 

[Syriusly]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

Hey, the it was Bill Clinton and Barry Obama who praised Klansman Robert Byrd's life work.
That was THIS century.

Byrd renounced his Klan past over 40 years ago and has since apologized. I don't think either Obama or Clinton would have praised him otherwise.

Oh, so Democrats are OK with electing a "former" Klansman to the Senate 6 times LMAO

The NAACP was okay with it- why would the Democrats have a problem with it?

“Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation,” stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. “Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country.

And of course Reagan got along with him fine also

 

[alang1216]

racist Klan Democrats

Did you throw this one in to see if anyone was reading your list or did you get your list from the last century?

Hey, the it was Bill Clinton and Barry Obama who praised Klansman Robert Byrd's life work.
That was THIS century.

Byrd renounced his Klan past over 40 years ago and has since apologized. I don't think either Obama or Clinton would have praised him otherwise.

Oh, so Democrats are OK with electing a "former" Klansman to the Senate 6 times LMAO

I guess most Democrats are Christians and forgiving those that repent is in their nature.

 

[Kondor3]

and just hearing on the news , FOX that the reasons for these arrests and raids is to send a message to employers . Next , some farms should be raided and people in the USA should see their produce prices rise a little or a LOT ,

Then so be it. It's disgraceful to depress prices through the use of Slave Labor. Then again, that's always been a winning Democrat formula, hasn't it?

 

[pismoe]

and i like 'mechanized' picking of crops as mexicans are left in their homeland . Works very nice , i'll get some video Kondor .

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

IF the government is doing their job, and fining the crap out of employers, illegals are no longer "less costly".

And there are plenty of struggling American citizens, to whom a couple bucks an hour MORE, would make quite a difference to.


Long term? Long term is a long time from now. I want jobs for Americans today. ALL THE JOBS.

I hear you but I'm not convinced it is a zero-sum game. Everyone living here, legally or not, creates jobs that support them: construction of houses, health care, transportation, etc. More people = more jobs.

Then India and China should have 1% unemployment.

 

[Gracie]

They need to hit motels in tourist cities. They are FULL of illegal maids.

 

[pismoe]

They need to hit motels in tourist cities. They are FULL of illegal maids.

----------------------------------------- might be next Gracie !!