Fascism: The Father of American Liberalism.

[PoliticalChic]

Do you want to provide unlimited government healthcare for everyone regardless of condition, regardless of cost? Because if you don't, you're just as guilty of what you're trying to blame on others.

Here are the two factors left out of your consideration of the equation:

1. Historically, the progressive theorem is based on government determining exactly what rights an individual has, and, by extension, how one may live- or if one should live.
This is the antithesis of our founding principles.

2. You have no way of knowing how much 'healthcare' there will be in the future, nor how much will be needed, other than your conjecture.
Could there be medical and scientific breakthroughs that will obviate rationing? Well, historically there always have been. As long as we have a free market to reward such breakthroughs.

I suggest that we remain consistent with the principles that have made this country the 'shining light.'

The individual, not the state or the collective.

The free market 'rations' healthcare on one's ability to pay. Just like it 'rations' everything else.

If you are content to have a society where personal health is proportionate to personal wealth, then you are hardly in a position to condemn the possibility that government provided healthcare (to those who can't otherwise afford it) might have some limitations that could be characterized as rationing.

I've seen your post, and, based on same, know that you are not changing the subject accidently.

I have no problem in debating the free market, but the import of the last post is that your implication that it is the province of a (progressive) government to determine an agenda beyond the limited one assigned by the Constitution is the question.

To review, my thesis is that Progressives, the predecessors of modern liberals - not classical liberals, who, as you know, are more akin to conservatives with respect to the individual, have much in common with fascists.

This is not to say that today's liberals or if they wished to be called progressives, believe in genocide or gas chambers, but that they subscribe to a view of government as all-encompassing in every sphere of life.

They believe, as do fascists, that "It is totalitarian in that it assumes everything is political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives."

While we can argue about how much healthcare costs, and to what extent each of us getws the healthcare we need, that is not the basis of the OP.

The similarity in principle between fascism and progressivism is.

 

[Article 15]

You can have one too, buddy

As you can probably already tell, I'm crushed, because the opinions of vapid children matter so much to me.

Let's see if this buffoon will live up- or in this case, down- to my estimation of him.

Ah, the next threat:

"Just because you are a partisan hack.

I think I will neg all of your hack threads from now on. "

It appears I've exposed a sensitive nerve!


Although we have low personal standards on the board, it appears he has consistently failed to achieve them.

I'll live up to it. Don't you worry.

 

[Article 15]

As you can probably already tell, I'm crushed, because the opinions of vapid children matter so much to me.

Let's see if this buffoon will live up- or in this case, down- to my estimation of him.

Ah, the next threat:

"Just because you are a partisan hack.

I think I will neg all of your hack threads from now on. "

It appears I've exposed a sensitive nerve!


Although we have low personal standards on the board, it appears he has consistently failed to achieve them.

I'll live up to it. Don't you worry.

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As you can probably already tell, I'm crushed, because the opinions of vapid children matter so much to me.

Let's see if this buffoon will live up- or in this case, down- to my estimation of him.

Ah, the next threat:

"Just because you are a partisan hack.

I think I will neg all of your hack threads from now on. "

It appears I've exposed a sensitive nerve!


Although we have low personal standards on the board, it appears he has consistently failed to achieve them.

I'll live up to it. Don't you worry.

I have no such worry.

The feeble minded often perseverate.

 

[Xenophon]

And you pick Jonah Goldberg... the idiot...stupid is as stupid does...



The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

4. Supremacy of the Military

5. Rampant Sexism

6. Controlled Mass Media

7. Obsession with National Security

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

9. Corporate Power is Protected

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

14. Fraudulent Elections

No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.
Edmund Burke

The problem with this is it also describes communism as it was applied in teh 20th century.

The fact is 'fascist' today is used as a way to attack people and there is no real meaning outside of the original, which was a movement by Mussolini to restore Italy to the glories of the Roman Empire.

All these attempts to define it over the years are simplistic and transparent attempts to attribute it to hings they don't care for and have glaring mistakes, such as:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism-Seen in every state prior to teh first world war and seen to this day in the USA, most of the EU states as well as just about any other established nation you can name.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights- In the 1920s Britian & France treated half the world as serfs in various colonies, did they observe the 'human rights' of Africans? Chinese? Yet nobody called them 'fascist'

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause-We see it right now, Obama won an election by 'blaiming' the rival party, is Barry a Fascist?

5. Rampant Sexism-This one is really rediculous, as it was a feature of all nations until fairly recently, just look at the dates universal sufferage was granted in many countries.

6. Controlled Mass Media-This can be applied to any totalitarian state, was the Soviet Union 'fascist?'

7. Obsession with National Security-When britain was building a navy that had to be larger then any TWO other countries combined, where they doing it out of facism? Was the cold war a square off between fascist states? This one is also absurd.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined-This one is downright stupid, Mussolini was an athiest and the church had no say in his government, Hitler was a mystic who had called organized religious believers 'nincompoops.'

9. Corporate Power is Protected-The Italians had little to no control over the major corporations of Italy (such as Fiat), it appears this one is added simply to include a modern day 'scapegoat' of certain people.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed-They pay the Vietnamese pennies to make things and they aern't allowed to organize, are they fascist? This is another one that fits many types of government.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts-This was not a tenant of fascist Italy, it was more a Hitler and teh Nazis thing, and Nazism is not Facism.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment-This is seen in almost every country to this day, are they all fascist?

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption-Name a country where this DOESN'T happen.

14. Fraudulent Elections-This is another of those rather silly ones, as Fasicts barred elections, they didn't need them once they took power, and they were installed leagally.

Please don't bother posting that stupid list again, at least try to come up with a viable discription of fascism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's see if this buffoon will live up- or in this case, down- to my estimation of him.

Ah, the next threat:

"Just because you are a partisan hack.

I think I will neg all of your hack threads from now on. "

It appears I've exposed a sensitive nerve!


Although we have low personal standards on the board, it appears he has consistently failed to achieve them.

I'll live up to it. Don't you worry.

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

 

[Ragnar]

I'll live up to it. Don't you worry.

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

If you hadn't had me since the OP, you would have had me at public spanking.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And you pick Jonah Goldberg... the idiot...stupid is as stupid does...



The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

4. Supremacy of the Military

5. Rampant Sexism

6. Controlled Mass Media

7. Obsession with National Security

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

9. Corporate Power is Protected

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

14. Fraudulent Elections

No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.
Edmund Burke

The problem with this is it also describes communism as it was applied in teh 20th century.

The fact is 'fascist' today is used as a way to attack people and there is no real meaning outside of the original, which was a movement by Mussolini to restore Italy to the glories of the Roman Empire.

All these attempts to define it over the years are simplistic and transparent attempts to attribute it to hings they don't care for and have glaring mistakes, such as:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism-Seen in every state prior to teh first world war and seen to this day in the USA, most of the EU states as well as just about any other established nation you can name.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights- In the 1920s Britian & France treated half the world as serfs in various colonies, did they observe the 'human rights' of Africans? Chinese? Yet nobody called them 'fascist'

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause-We see it right now, Obama won an election by 'blaiming' the rival party, is Barry a Fascist?

5. Rampant Sexism-This one is really rediculous, as it was a feature of all nations until fairly recently, just look at the dates universal sufferage was granted in many countries.

6. Controlled Mass Media-This can be applied to any totalitarian state, was the Soviet Union 'fascist?'

7. Obsession with National Security-When britain was building a navy that had to be larger then any TWO other countries combined, where they doing it out of facism? Was the cold war a square off between fascist states? This one is also absurd.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined-This one is downright stupid, Mussolini was an athiest and the church had no say in his government, Hitler was a mystic who had called organized religious believers 'nincompoops.'

9. Corporate Power is Protected-The Italians had little to no control over the major corporations of Italy (such as Fiat), it appears this one is added simply to include a modern day 'scapegoat' of certain people.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed-They pay the Vietnamese pennies to make things and they aern't allowed to organize, are they fascist? This is another one that fits many types of government.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts-This was not a tenant of fascist Italy, it was more a Hitler and teh Nazis thing, and Nazism is not Facism.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment-This is seen in almost every country to this day, are they all fascist?

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption-Name a country where this DOESN'T happen.

14. Fraudulent Elections-This is another of those rather silly ones, as Fasicts barred elections, they didn't need them once they took power, and they were installed leagally.

Please don't bother posting that stupid list again, at least try to come up with a viable discription of fascism.

"...The fact is 'fascist' today is used as a way to attack people and there is no real meaning ..."

Absolutely correct!

This is the reason that I created this thread: the term is used frivolously by the left as a hammer against the right:

a. Al Gore and the environmentalists imply fascism when they compare global-warming skeptics to Holocaust deniers.

b. Hollywood uses the term to mean ‘anything liberals don’t like.’

c. On NBC’s ‘West Wing’ support for school choice was labeled ‘fascist’.

d. Charlie Rangel claimed that the GOP’s 1994 Contract With America was more extreme than Nazism.

e. In 2000 President Clinton called the Texas GOP platform a ‘fascist tract.’
f. “…some on the left are dusting off the political vocabulary of the 1920's and 30's to describe policies of the Bush administration… ”The Latest Obscenity Has Seven Letters - NYTimes.com

g. NYTimes reporter Chris Hedges book: “American Fascists: The Christian Right…”

h. “Behind Israel's Neo-Nazi Violence” Behind Israel's Neo-Nazi Violence - TIME


And the Jonah Goldberg quote brought both the heat and the light that I expected.

 

[Article 15]

I'll live up to it. Don't you worry.

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

I believe I will do what I want. I've said nothing to you in private that I haven't or wouldn't say publicly.

I've called you a **** before. Because you are one.

I've called you a hack before. Because you are one.

You are basically a big part of what is wrong with today's political landscape. You are a self proclaimed elitist. You are divisive. You demonize. You twist. You assign blame and refuse to accept it.

Like it or not, you are the problem.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

If you hadn't had me since the OP, you would have had me at public spanking.

You beast.

 

[Bfgrn]

And you pick Jonah Goldberg... the idiot...stupid is as stupid does...



The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

4. Supremacy of the Military

5. Rampant Sexism

6. Controlled Mass Media

7. Obsession with National Security

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

9. Corporate Power is Protected

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

14. Fraudulent Elections

No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.
Edmund Burke

The problem with this is it also describes communism as it was applied in teh 20th century.

The fact is 'fascist' today is used as a way to attack people and there is no real meaning outside of the original, which was a movement by Mussolini to restore Italy to the glories of the Roman Empire.

All these attempts to define it over the years are simplistic and transparent attempts to attribute it to hings they don't care for and have glaring mistakes, such as:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism-Seen in every state prior to teh first world war and seen to this day in the USA, most of the EU states as well as just about any other established nation you can name.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights- In the 1920s Britian & France treated half the world as serfs in various colonies, did they observe the 'human rights' of Africans? Chinese? Yet nobody called them 'fascist'

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause-We see it right now, Obama won an election by 'blaiming' the rival party, is Barry a Fascist?

5. Rampant Sexism-This one is really rediculous, as it was a feature of all nations until fairly recently, just look at the dates universal sufferage was granted in many countries.

6. Controlled Mass Media-This can be applied to any totalitarian state, was the Soviet Union 'fascist?'

7. Obsession with National Security-When britain was building a navy that had to be larger then any TWO other countries combined, where they doing it out of facism? Was the cold war a square off between fascist states? This one is also absurd.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined-This one is downright stupid, Mussolini was an athiest and the church had no say in his government, Hitler was a mystic who had called organized religious believers 'nincompoops.'

9. Corporate Power is Protected-The Italians had little to no control over the major corporations of Italy (such as Fiat), it appears this one is added simply to include a modern day 'scapegoat' of certain people.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed-They pay the Vietnamese pennies to make things and they aern't allowed to organize, are they fascist? This is another one that fits many types of government.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts-This was not a tenant of fascist Italy, it was more a Hitler and teh Nazis thing, and Nazism is not Facism.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment-This is seen in almost every country to this day, are they all fascist?

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption-Name a country where this DOESN'T happen.

14. Fraudulent Elections-This is another of those rather silly ones, as Fasicts barred elections, they didn't need them once they took power, and they were installed leagally.

Please don't bother posting that stupid list again, at least try to come up with a viable discription of fascism.

OK, I'll keep it real simple for you; fascism and communism are conservative, not liberal...

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

I believe I will do what I want. I've said nothing to you in private that I haven't or wouldn't say publicly.

I've called you a **** before. Because you are one.

I've called you a hack before. Because you are one.

You are basically a big part of what is wrong with today's political landscape. You are a self proclaimed elitist. You are divisive. You demonize. You twist. You assign blame and refuse to accept it.

Like it or not, you are the problem.

How unfortunate that no one in your life has loved you enough to teach you about civil discourse.

Tsk, tsk.

But, if you are unhappy with that I say, try putting your fingers in your ears until they meet.

 

[Ragnar]

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

If you hadn't had me since the OP, you would have had me at public spanking.

You beast.

It does beg the question, is public spanking fascist?

 

[Article 15]

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

I believe I will do what I want. I've said nothing to you in private that I haven't or wouldn't say publicly.

I've called you a **** before. Because you are one.

I've called you a hack before. Because you are one.

You are basically a big part of what is wrong with today's political landscape. You are a self proclaimed elitist. You are divisive. You demonize. You twist. You assign blame and refuse to accept it.

Like it or not, you are the problem.

How unfortunate that no one in your life has loved you enough to teach you about civil discourse.

Tsk, tsk.

But, if you are unhappy with that I say, try putting your fingers in your ears until they meet.

I know plenty about civil discourse. You deserve no such respect from me.

 

[Xenophon]

OK, I'll keep it real simple for you; fascism and communism are conservative, not liberal...

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer

I'll make it real simple for you, since you still don't understand:

Neither 'facism nor communism' are conservative, only an idiot would think so.

Both were 'new age' movements born in the late 19th and early 20th centures and both tried with horrendous results for the nations involved.

And the most highly authoritive people on earth are progressives, they try to regulate, control and direct every aspect of life and behavior, so forget that attempt to attack 'conservatives' as the progressive side are the real dictators, or need I remind you of what 'nanny state' means.

 

[Ragnar]

I'll even let you posting a PM slide.

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

I believe I will do what I want. I've said nothing to you in private that I haven't or wouldn't say publicly.

I've called you a **** before. Because you are one.

I've called you a hack before. Because you are one.

You are basically a big part of what is wrong with today's political landscape. You are a self proclaimed elitist. You are divisive. You demonize. You twist. You assign blame and refuse to accept it.

Like it or not, you are the problem.

I hope you talk to a lady like that in real life, while standing next to me some day.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I believe I will do what I want. I've said nothing to you in private that I haven't or wouldn't say publicly.

I've called you a **** before. Because you are one.

I've called you a hack before. Because you are one.

You are basically a big part of what is wrong with today's political landscape. You are a self proclaimed elitist. You are divisive. You demonize. You twist. You assign blame and refuse to accept it.

Like it or not, you are the problem.

How unfortunate that no one in your life has loved you enough to teach you about civil discourse.

Tsk, tsk.

But, if you are unhappy with that I say, try putting your fingers in your ears until they meet.

I know plenty about civil discourse. You deserve no such respect from me.

The lack of respect is based on your inability to discriminate...

I merely require more thought and style than you evince.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, they don't. In what universe do you live, Xenophon? And if you think the GOP does not belief in progressive regulation of business, then I suspect you are living in alternate existence.

 

[Oddball]

No, they don't. In what universe do you live, Xenophon? And if you think the GOP does not belief in progressive regulation of business, then I suspect you are living in alternate existence.

Since when is the GOP an old school conservative party?

 

[Article 15]

That would be fine, but, better still, don't send any private messages to me.

Let's keep everything out in public, unless you're afraid of everyone

seeing the spanking that I'll deliver.

I believe I will do what I want. I've said nothing to you in private that I haven't or wouldn't say publicly.

I've called you a **** before. Because you are one.

I've called you a hack before. Because you are one.

You are basically a big part of what is wrong with today's political landscape. You are a self proclaimed elitist. You are divisive. You demonize. You twist. You assign blame and refuse to accept it.

Like it or not, you are the problem.

I hope you talk to a lady like that in real life, while standing next to me some day.

e-thuggin' 4 life