Fascism: The Father of American Liberalism.

[Bfgrn]

Progressive nanny state part deux:

Manzanar Internment camp, set up by progressive hero Franklin Roosevelt, to imprison those dirty little yello bastard Nisei (who just happened to be American citizens, a minor detail FDR had the Supreme Court take care of)

Want to keep playing clyde, or do you concede that comparing Gitmo to the true gulags set up by FDR & Lenin trump any other lame attempt you want to make.

I have plenty more if you want too.

Certainly not America's or FDR's finest moment. But do you have sources showing any conservatives or Republicans who opposed this horrible policy? The opposition came from liberals, most notably the President's own WIFE, First lady Eleanor Roosevelt.

Anti-Japanese sentiment didn't start with FDR, it was a cultural ignorance that permeated our society.

You need to look beyond JUST FDR.

Lieutenant General John L. DeWitt, head of the Western Command, sought approval to conduct search and seizure operations aimed at preventing alien Japanese from making radio transmissions to Japanese ships. The Justice Department declined, however, stating that there was no probable cause to support DeWitt's assertion, as the FBI concluded that there was no security threat. On January 2, the Joint Immigration Committee of the California Legislature sent a manifesto to California newspapers which attacked "the ethnic Japanese," whom it alleged were "totally unassimilable." This manifesto further argued that all people of Japanese heritage were loyal subjects of the Emperor of Japan; Japanese language schools, furthermore, according to the manifesto, were bastions of racism which advanced doctrines of Japanese racial superiority.

The manifesto was backed by the Native Sons and Daughters of the Golden West and the California Department of the American Legion, which in January demanded that all Japanese with dual citizenship be placed in concentration camps. Internment was not limited to those who had been to Japan, but included a small number of German and Italian enemy aliens. By February, Earl Warren (Republican), the Attorney General of California, had begun his efforts to persuade the federal government to remove all people of Japanese heritage from the West Coast.

Civilian and military officials had concerns about the loyalty of the ethnic Japanese, although these concerns seemed to stem more from racial prejudice than actual risk. Major Karl Bendetsen and Lieutenant General John L. DeWitt each questioned Japanese American loyalty. DeWitt, who administered the internment program, repeatedly told newspapers that "A Jap's a Jap" and testified to Congress,

"I don't want any of them [persons of Japanese ancestry] here. They are a dangerous element. There is no way to determine their loyalty... It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese. American citizenship does not necessarily determine loyalty... But we must worry about the Japanese all the time until he is wiped off the map."

Non-military advocates for exclusion, removal, and detention

Internment was popular among many white farmers who resented the Japanese-American farmers. "White American farmers admitted that their self-interest required removal of the Japanese." These individuals saw internment as a convenient means of uprooting their Japanese American competitors"

State politicians joined the bandwagon that was embraced by Leland Ford (Republican) of Los Angeles, who demanded that "all Japanese, whether citizens or not, be placed in [inland] concentration camps.
wiki

This has to be the absolute lamest attempt yet to spin.

'FDR really isn't to blame, it was Republicans!'

HA HA HA

Executive Order 9066 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Executive Order 9066 was with rescinded by Gerald Ford on February 19, 1976.

On August 10, 1988, the Civil Liberties Act of 1988, based on the CWRIC recommendations, was signed into law by Ronald Reagan. On November 21, 1989, George H.W. Bush signed an appropriation bill authorizing payments to be paid out between 1990 and 1998. In 1990, surviving internees began to receive individual redress payments and a letter of apology.

You are 0-2 clyde.

I didn't say 'FDR really isn't to blame, it was Republicans!'

What I said is that it represented the will of We, the people; conservatives and Republicans included. They were NOT opposed to it, they supported and even advocated FOR it...

You lost this one badly and didn't even address Lenin and Stalin, you know, those two liberal guardians of red, white and blue capitalism

You are 0 for 1 aqn

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

I think the root cause of the inanity of this thread might be found in the fact,

that I proved here,

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1825258-post115.html

that PolChic doesn't even know what the word 'corporatism' means.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here are the two factors left out of your consideration of the equation:

1. Historically, the progressive theorem is based on government determining exactly what rights an individual has, and, by extension, how one may live- or if one should live.
This is the antithesis of our founding principles.

2. You have no way of knowing how much 'healthcare' there will be in the future, nor how much will be needed, other than your conjecture.
Could there be medical and scientific breakthroughs that will obviate rationing? Well, historically there always have been. As long as we have a free market to reward such breakthroughs.

I suggest that we remain consistent with the principles that have made this country the 'shining light.'

The individual, not the state or the collective.

The free market 'rations' healthcare on one's ability to pay. Just like it 'rations' everything else.

If you are content to have a society where personal health is proportionate to personal wealth, then you are hardly in a position to condemn the possibility that government provided healthcare (to those who can't otherwise afford it) might have some limitations that could be characterized as rationing.

I've seen your post, and, based on same, know that you are not changing the subject accidently.

I have no problem in debating the free market, but the import of the last post is that your implication that it is the province of a (progressive) government to determine an agenda beyond the limited one assigned by the Constitution is the question.

To review, my thesis is that Progressives, the predecessors of modern liberals - not classical liberals, who, as you know, are more akin to conservatives with respect to the individual, have much in common with fascists.

This is not to say that today's liberals or if they wished to be called progressives, believe in genocide or gas chambers, but that they subscribe to a view of government as all-encompassing in every sphere of life.

They believe, as do fascists, that "It is totalitarian in that it assumes everything is political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives."

While we can argue about how much healthcare costs, and to what extent each of us getws the healthcare we need, that is not the basis of the OP.

The similarity in principle between fascism and progressivism is.

Is there any chance you could make an honest attempt to be concise and to the point?

I think we'll all stipulate to your ability to engage in excruciating pointless verbosity, I think we'll all acknowledge that you got a vocabulary for Christmas, please, in return,

try to make sense, briefly.

 

[MIPS]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

I think the root cause of the inanity of this thread might be found in the fact,

that I proved here,

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1825258-post115.html

that PolChic doesn't even know what the word 'corporatism' means.

Of course because you're such a credible source for "proving" your own arguments.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Seems as though conservatives are always having to undo the bullshit created by the leftist bigots.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

I think the root cause of the inanity of this thread might be found in the fact,

that I proved here,

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1825258-post115.html

that PolChic doesn't even know what the word 'corporatism' means.

Of course because you're such a credible source for "proving" your own arguments.

The definition of corporatism is not an argument, genius.

 

[MIPS]

I think the root cause of the inanity of this thread might be found in the fact,

that I proved here,

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1825258-post115.html

that PolChic doesn't even know what the word 'corporatism' means.

Of course because you're such a credible source for "proving" your own arguments.

The definition of corporatism is not an argument, genius.

OIC, you weren't attempting to formulate an argument, you were just engaging in your usual regurgitation of vapid nonsense... my bad.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of course because you're such a credible source for "proving" your own arguments.

The definition of corporatism is not an argument, genius.

OIC, you weren't attempting to formulate an argument, you were just engaging in your usual regurgitation of vapid nonsense... my bad.

No, I was proving someone didn't know what the word corporatism means. That would be absolutely relevant to a thread about fascism.

 

[rdean]

And you pick Jonah Goldberg... the idiot...stupid is as stupid does...



The 14 Characteristics of Fascism

The 14 characteristics are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

4. Supremacy of the Military

5. Rampant Sexism

6. Controlled Mass Media

7. Obsession with National Security

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

9. Corporate Power is Protected

10. Labor Power is Suppressed

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

14. Fraudulent Elections

No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.
Edmund Burke

Did this list come from the Republican Party Platform?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Many "so called" Republicans subscribe to the fascist creed. We eliminate them when we can, but we also need their votes.

 

[Political Junky]

Mussolini, Fascist, said this.

 

[rikules]

There are times when a well known meme is, upon further inspection, clearly the reverse.

Fascism is regularly identified with Conservativism.

But try to define 'fascism,' and a straight line can be drawn between the definition and modern liberalism.

Some of the definitions are as follows:

1. Palingenetic ultranationalism is a theory concerning generic fascism formulated by British political theorist Roger Griffin. The key elements are that fascism can be defined by its core myth, namely that of "national rebirth" — palingenesis. (Palingenesis is the concept of mythic rebirth from the ashes, embodied by the Phoenix.

2. Stanley Payne's work, which offers a "typological definition" of fascism:

a. Creation of a new nationalist authoritarian state based not merely on traditional principles or models

b. Organization of some new kind of regulated, multiclass, integrated national economic structure, whether called national corporatist, national socialist, or national syndicalist

c. Specific espousal of an idealist, voluntarist creed, normally involving the attempt to realize a new form of modern, self-determined, secular culture

d. Attempted mass mobilization with militarization of political relationships and style and with the goal of a mass party militia

e. Positive evaluation and use of, or willingness to use, violence

f. Exaltation of youth above other phases of life, emphasizing the conflict of generations, at least in effecting the initial political transformation

g. Specific tendency toward an authoritarian, charismatic, personal style of command, whether or not the command is to some degree initially elective7
Stanley Payne, Fascism: Comparison and Definition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1980), p. 7.


3. Emilio Gentile: "A mass movement, that combines different classes, but is predominantly of the middle classes, which sees itself as having a mission of national regeneration, is in a state of war with its adversaries and seeks a monopoly of power by using terror, parliamentary tactics, and compromise to create a new regime, destroying democracy." Stanley Payne, Fascism: Comparison and Definition (Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1980), p. 5 n.6


And, the most precise and telling definition that I have come across:

4. "Fascism is a religion of the state. It is totalitarian in that it assumes everything is political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives. Any rival identity is defined as the enemy. American liberalism embodies all of these aspects of fascism." Jonah Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, p. 23

are you on drugs?

or are you just 12 years old?


every point you listed could just as easily be directed at conservatives

I won't deny that some leftists approach facism in their extremism

but it is obvious to sane and rational people that modern conservatives are much closer to facism than modern liberals.

The fact that you can't see this at all proves 2 things;

1. you are just as unintelligent as you appear to be with your posts

2. you are just another IHATELIBERALS conservative.

you should really try to grow up a little
maybe do some reading and thinking

if you could post messages that read "I am conservative because I believe in;
a
b
c
d"

you would at least be less disgustingly offensive.

but so far all I see from you is...."I am conservative because I HATE LIBERALS!"

it's hard to take you seriously (or any of your conservative friends on this message board)
when, after wading through the insults, mockery and taunts, we can't actually find any substance