Faith In Democracy?

[koshergrl]

I find it hilarious that atheists on this site think the Dark Ages were dark because of Christianity, lol.

When precisely the opposite is true..the Dark Ages were *dark* because the western world was an illiterate, pagan, tribal, warring society that lived in freaking stone huts and used stone implements. They didn't write, or read.

The Middle Ages and the Enlightenment was a period of extraordinary advances in our civilization..in terms of law, education, standard of living...thanks to the advance of Christianity. Christian priests taught children to read, Christian tenets resulted in the development of constitutional government and the Magna Carta itself.

Poor, sad dupes.

It was all nobles and churchmen directing things until the invention of the printing press in the 1400's...the church establishment was allied with the nobles against scientific and democratic revolution. Still conservative pain in the ass dingbats, though most revolutionaries remained religious, outside of communists...

As I have shown..in this thread and in threads like it dating back approximately 10 years on this site alone, that is balderdash. Historians absolutely understand that the spread of Christianity is responsible for the development of Europe and the West, for the spread of education (i.e., reading) for the establishment of churches, hospitals..and in fact the great scientific advances and superior understanding of the universe as evidenced by the work of brilliant men like Copernicus.

 

[koshergrl]

"The rise of Christianity, while admittedly resulting in a lot of people being set on fire, also saw a dramatic increase in charities. Almost immediately after the church gained a foothold in Europe, they started introducing a widespread system of charity that distributed food, clothing, and money to those in need. Perhaps not by coincidence, the concepts of goodwill hospices, hospitals, and shelters for the poor were also invented during the "dark" ages, paving the way for the public health care system."

Read more: 5 Ridiculous Myths You Probably Believe About the Dark Ages Cracked.com

 

[francoHFW]

Unfortunately, the Catholic church stopped being a force for progress about the 1300's...

 

[koshergrl]

Unfortunately, the Catholic church stopped being a force for progress about the 1300's...

Where on earth do you get this stuff?

"Ronald Numbers (professor at Cambridge University) has said: ‘Notions such as: “the rise of Christianity killed off ancient science”, “the medieval Christian Church suppressed the growth of the natural sciences”, “the medieval Christians thought that the world was flat”, and “the Church prohibited autopsies and dissections during the Middle Ages” [are] examples of widely popular myths that still pass as historical truth, even though they are not supported by historical research."


Top 10 Reasons The Dark Ages Were Not Dark - Listverse

 

[koshergrl]

"...the fact is, during the Early Middle Ages, Europe had a united Church, an agreed upon canon of the Bible, and a well developed philosophical tradition. This led (as one would expect) to a great period of peace within the Western nations."

Top 10 Reasons The Dark Ages Were Not Dark - Listverse

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles possible without faith? I hold that it is not. Certainly Western Civilization was not founded without it.

So how do you propose to make free thinking rational human beings who are not believers in the supernatural come over to your way of thinking?

 

[Unkotare]

Is a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles possible without faith? I hold that it is not. Certainly Western Civilization was not founded without it.

Faith is like a raw material that must be shaped by reason into a society. When faith is allowed to rule without reason is where the trouble starts.

Or maybe it's faith that gives direction to man's reason.

 

[Unkotare]

Is a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles possible without faith? I hold that it is not. Certainly Western Civilization was not founded without it.

I'm pretty sure that you won't find much democracy in places where faith in some supreme being has great influence on public policy.

Where do you think Western Civilization came from?

 

[Unkotare]

"...The Catholic Church was extremely institutionalized, and often opposed the scientific and cultural advancements the Greeks and Romans had pioneered.".
.

Oh really?

History

 

[Unkotare]

Knowledgeable people were put to death b/c they thought the earth was round.

No they weren't.

 

[Erand7899]

As faith in God wanes, people seek out a substitute to fill the void. Consequently, we get the environmental fanatics, sports fanatics, and celebrity worship. Thats what the word "fan" is short for.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

As faith in God wanes, people seek out a substitute to fill the void. Consequently, we get the environmental fanatics, sports fanatics, and celebrity worship. Thats what the word "fan" is short for.

Nonsense.


This fails a post hoc fallacy, there is no evidence that being free from faith creates a 'void' that 'needs to be filled,' the notion is ridiculous.

 

[Unkotare]

Is a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles possible without faith? I hold that it is not. Certainly Western Civilization was not founded without it.

Disagree.


Of course a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles is possible without faith.


.

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"

 

[Unkotare]

there is no evidence that being free from faith creates a 'void' that 'needs to be filled,' the notion is ridiculous.

"an ethical community is conceivable only as a people under divine commands, i.e., as a people of God, and indeed in accordance with the laws of virtue”

 

[Wry Catcher]

"...The Catholic Church was extremely institutionalized, and often opposed the scientific and cultural advancements the Greeks and Romans had pioneered.".
.

Oh really?

History

Really! See Galileo and the Insquisition. Remember, Galileo was famous, lesser lights would not recieve a light sentence of house arrest for life for heresy

 

[Unkotare]

Did you read the link?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Did you read the link?

I did. Comport the date of Galileo's recruitment with his trial and conviction for heresy. Look, I was raised and confirmed Catholic. I have no problem with the church, but I know it is not perfect. I support the new Pope, maybe he can bring the church of my youth from the 16th Century into the 21st. I hope he does.

 

[Unkotare]

Is a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles possible without faith? I hold that it is not. Certainly Western Civilization was not founded without it.

Disagree.


Of course a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles is possible without faith.


.

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"

"Does this mean that the ethical state is not secular, that is must submit to another institution, to the church? No. IN the ethical state, men submit to their own reason, by which "the setting up and the diffusion of a society in accordance with, and for the sake of, the laws of virtue" are made to be "a task and duty" for them."

-Marcello Pera

 

[JoeB131]

Is a country, a society, a government based on democratic principles possible without faith? I hold that it is not. Certainly Western Civilization was not founded without it.

Okay. Going to make this easy for you.

A government based on a refusal to believe in Witches? Western Civilization as founded on it!!!

Until we figured out there were no witches.