Ex-Bush spokesman: President used 'propaganda' to push war

[Steerpike]

Well, we felt he was an idiot precisely because it appeared he was pushing propaganda. Now that he admits he was just pushing propaganda (which many of us suspected all along), of course we feel differently about him. There is nothing nonsensical about that.

Sure there is. A guy who had no credibility in your mind and those of like-minded individuals suddenly has credibility because he's saying what you want to hear. That's inane.

It's like the guy who wrote the hit book on Hillary Clinton. The right thought he was great, the left thought he was a guy within an axe to grind. Like with McClellan, the opinions of the partisans in the country are determined solely by whether the author is agreeing with their preconceived notions.

 

[ReillyT]

Sure there is. A guy who had no credibility in your mind and those of like-minded individuals suddenly has credibility because he's saying what you want to hear. That's inane.

It's like the guy who wrote the hit book on Hillary Clinton. The right thought he was great, the left thought he was a guy within an axe to grind. Like with McClellan, the opinions of the partisans in the country are determined solely by whether the author is agreeing with their preconceived notions.

You are sort of right, but it isn't nonsensical. He lacked credibility because we felt he was pushing propaganda. Now he admits what we always suspected, thus lending himself credibility (coupled with his position in the Bush White House, which makes him credible when he criticizes).

What you are essentially saying is that if Iran acknowledged that they were pursuing a nuclear weapons program, that has little credibility because they once denied it.

No, it would have credibility because they are a) in a position to know, and b) it confirms what we already suspected. Same with McClellan. He is in a position to know that of which he speaks, and it confirms what we always suspected anyway.

 

[Steerpike]

If that's the correct analysis (he was in a position to know) then what do you do about Ari Fleischer, who was also in a position to know, coming out and contradicting him?

Does Fleischer have credibility? And if not, does he lack it only because he doesn't confirm what you already think?

That's the thing that kills me about the public reaction to these kinds of books.

 

[ReillyT]

If that's the correct analysis (he was in a position to know) then what do you do about Ari Fleischer, who was also in a position to know, coming out and contradicting him?

Does Fleischer have credibility? And if not, does he lack it only because he doesn't confirm what you already think?

That's the thing that kills me about the public reaction to these kinds of books.

Well, you would have to judge them for yourself. One would think that any prominent member of the Administration would be kindly disposed towards it unless they were uncermonially dumped - which McClellan was not. It appears he left on rather good terms.

Thus, I am neither surprised nor swayed as much by ex-officials (such as Fleischer) who support their former boss as I am by those who trash their former boss - unless I detect some reason for bad feelings. True, one has to factor in profit motive in startling revelations, but since this is consistent with what other ex-officials have said, and I don't find the $ factor compelling, I am inclined to believe McClellan over Fleischer.

 

[Steerpike]

My recollection is that McClellan more or less had to leave after some internal shakeup at the White House. Is that not the case? I can't recall for certain anymore.

 

[ReillyT]

My recollection is that McClellan more or less had to leave after some internal shakeup at the White House. Is that not the case? I can't recall for certain anymore.

He left shortly after the Valerie Plame broohaha, where he got grilled by the press for providing inaccurate information earlier in the matter (which he says he received from Libby/Cheney). He wan't forced out. He left on good terms with his boss.

 

[Shogun]

Who is to say that MClellan doesn't have a dress and lipstick in his closet? Or maybe he was just looking to make a ton of money? It seems to me if he thought he was promoting lies he would have resigned at that time...but I guess that would make to much sense?

well, one of em was arrested and the other is making conservatives sweat. You do the math.


I have to say, im enjoying the HELL out of hearing the radio talking heads blather on and on about how insignificant is a former white house press secretary spilling his guts. Meanwhile, their personal libraries are FULL of the literary tripe that saturated bookstores during the 04 election.


Rich, lemme tellya.

 

[Shogun]

McClellan comments=$$$$$$$$$, the more controversial the statement the more $$$$$$$, so again why didn't he resign when he had to go out deceive people and release propaganda?

uh, because PRESS SECRETARIES generally aren't in the same loop as, say, the secretary of state and the friggin President? he was a mouthpiece. If his book validated Bush's term conservatives all over would be using it to masterbate to RIGHT NOW.


OR, MAYBE HE HAS A WIFE WORKING IN A SECRET SERVICE SOMEWHERE AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO AVOID BEING PLAMED.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Use his descriptions as one data point. Combine it with what other critics (including past officials) of the President have said, what the President's supporters have said, and with what you see yourself. Determine for yourself which of his views likely have merit and which do not. There is no one single conclusion that everyone will arrive at.

Nothing he said is serious though. So what if the President chose to downplay certain aspects. EVERY President that went to War did that. Again Wilson, FDR Truman, LBJ. All down played what might happen when selling their war. It is not a lie to down play information. It is not unethical and it is not "deceiving" the American Public. No lie is involved.

The man states he does not believe Bush OR his advisors lied. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. This is not the "smoking gun" It is nothing more than another book couched in terms to earn money.

 

[jillian]

My recollection is that McClellan more or less had to leave after some internal shakeup at the White House. Is that not the case? I can't recall for certain anymore.

I think you're having a memory blip. Bush and McClellan stood side by side and made all googly eyed when McClellan resigned. I always thought he looked uncomfortable lying to the press.

 

[Steerpike]

I think you're having a memory blip. Bush and McClellan stood side by side and made all googly eyed when McClellan resigned. I always thought he looked uncomfortable lying to the press.

Yeah, I remember that. But there was a behind the scenes shakeup at the time. Just because they looked all doe-eyed at the press conference doesn't mean he wasn't pushed out the door...

 

[jillian]

Yeah, I remember that. But there was a behind the scenes shakeup at the time. Just because they looked all doe-eyed at the press conference doesn't mean he wasn't pushed out the door...

Didn't look it. But your saying it is simply pulling stuff out of the air. There's not even a little bit of any scuttlebutt saying that, much less any proof.

Sorry, I give it a thumbs down.

 

[Steerpike]

Didn't look it. But your saying it is simply pulling stuff out of the air. There's not even a little bit of any scuttlebutt saying that, much less any proof.

Sorry, I give it a thumbs down.

There's definite scuttlebut. Ari Fleischer said something to the effect yesterday, though he said he thought they all remained on good terms.

The NY Times article at the time of the resignation speculated that he might have been pushed out.

Scuttlebut abounds.

 

[jillian]

There's definite scuttlebut. Ari Fleischer said something to the effect yesterday, though he said he thought they all remained on good terms.

The NY Times article at the time of the resignation speculated that he might have been pushed out.

Scuttlebut abounds.

And, of course, Ari Fleishman, who had no problem lying to the public, should be taken at his word at this late date.

I saw Ari on TV yesterday. Nothing he said indicated that McClellan was pushed out, though he's using the word "disgruntled" now. Gee... why would they do that? It's not like they're contradicting a single fact that McClellan writes about. They're just all saying "we thought we knew Scott"......

 

[Steerpike]

And, of course, Ari Fleishman, who had no problem lying to the public, should be taken at his word at this late date.

It's still scuttlebut. You'd have said the same thing about McClellan a year ago when he was defending the war.

Do a Google search - there are plenty of news stories about the shakeup that happened right at the same time McClellan was out. And there's plenty of speculation in them.

 

[jillian]

It's still scuttlebut. You'd have said the same thing about McClellan a year ago when he was defending the war.

Do a Google search - there are plenty of news stories about the shakeup that happened right at the same time McClellan was out. And there's plenty of speculation in them.

At the time, Rove had to give up some power and Josh Bolton was brought in, too. But Bush said he and Scottie were gonna be rocking in rocking chairs together in their old age.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12387465/

 

[Steerpike]

At the time, Rove had to give up some power and Josh Bolton was brought in, too. But Bush said he and Scottie were gonna be rocking in rocking chairs together in their old age.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12387465/

And nevertheless this doesn't change the fact that there was scuttlebut...

 

[rayboyusmc]

I havent' read the posts for a few days, but has anyone been discussing the lies that Scott McClellan has been spreading in his tell all book?

Here's another one who felt pressured.

NEW YORK - CNN correspondent Jessica Yellin said Thursday she was referring to her time spent at MSNBC when she said she felt pressure not to report stories critical of the Bush administration during the time leading up to the Iraq war.

Yellin's initial comments, made during a discussion with Anderson Cooper on CNN Wednesday, shifted attention to the news media's performance following release of a critical assessment of the Bush administration by former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan. He wrote that Bush's strategy for selling the war was less than candid and honest.

During her CNN appearance, Yellin said the press corps was under enormous pressure from corporate executives to make sure the war was presented "in a way that was consistent with the patriotic fever in the nation and the president's high approval ratings."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_en_tv/tv_war_coverage

 

[William Joyce]

What a load of ninnyism. "Oh, the President forced me to be his spokesman and tricked me into the war!" "Oh, the evil media bosses forced me to cheer on the war."

I doubt it. This is just awfully convenient for Scott and Jessica... now that the war is in such disrepute, let them tell you how they knew it all along.

 

[JimH52]

Can we refer to the two terms we have suffered under King bush as the 'Dark Ages?'
Yes, the Clinton administration did some pretty underhanded things but these people in the WH now have been bordering on the Gestapo. DICK (Uncle Fester) has practically turned the WH into a bunker.