EU & Russia win-win?

[Tommy Tainant]

The elected Ukrainian government was ousted by American backed fascists. They may not have been nice guys but they had been elected.

 

[Stratford57]

really? If so, you should not worry if Russia captures Ukraine, cause who would care about what was there 1 or 5 years ago.

Right, so the Ukraines are fighting back to take the land you are stealing from them. We should we not support them? You expect to support stealing the land from them, right?

How about the Crimean Tatars that lived in Crimea before the Soviets stole it from them, and murdered them?

Should we help them fight you to take back Crimea from you? After all, they were there first. Isn't that your argument that you want to take Ukraine?

You said that we should not consider who was the first, so we can't base on that. Try show other arguments up. Yes, there is one more reason to fight ukraine - because they threaten Russia and try to be member of NATO, which since the collapse of USSR is trying to get closer and closer to russian borders. This is an aggressive politics, which needs to have an answer. Also it is fair to fight country which is willing to have a war with you, is it not?

There is no evidence that I've seen, that Ukraine PRIOR to the invasion of Russia, was trying to a member of NATO. They were trying to open more trade with the EU.

But they were NOT trying to be part of NATO.

*NOW*.... after you have bombed, fired shells, killed hundred of their people, and confiscated their land...> YEAH < ! They are trying to join NATO. ANYONE you do that to, is going to try and join NATO. *YOU* caused this. By MURDERING their daughters, and children, YEAH they want to join NATO now. Not a shock. Not a surprise.

If you do what you did to Ukraine, to any other neighboring country, they will ALL try and join NATO.

No, I'm not suggesting anything. You are. You are saying that because such and such a people lived in Ukraine over a hundred years ago, that you have a right to own Ukraine.

If that is the belief system you want to go by, then 90% of Russia today, needs to be turned over to others. Mongolia owned most of the Stepp, long before the 'Kievan Rus' people ever existed. You better start giving it all back eh? If you think that is the determining factor, then live up to your claims. Start returning the land to the Mongols. And China for that matter.

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

 

[Stratford57]

"The Russian embargo has caused some 4.5 billion US Dollars in damage to the Hungarian economy; this is the estimated value of lost exports.

The EU wishes to solve the crisis in Eastern Ukraine via political instruments and sanctions against Russia were introduced as the most important element of such a political solution in the summer of 2014, the Ministerial Commissioner reminded the press. In reaction, Russia also ordered sanctions against the member states of the European Union in August 2014....

I’m fascinated how gracefully the West puts the blame (and the sanctions!) on Russia when Ukraine keeps brutally violating Minsk ceasefire agreements. Russia, Germany and France are not the sides of the conflict, they all are guarantees of both sides Ukraine and Donbass (SE Ukraine) to obey Minsk agreements. If one can blame Russia in this situation, he should also blame (and put the sanctions on) Germany and France same way. Moreover, Ukrainian rulers are enjoying this situation: they violate Minsk agreements and hurt Russia at the same time.

* On Nov,12 2015 German TV channel Deutsche Welle has interviewed Poroshenko, who has had a hard time answering a lot of uncomfortable questions about ceasefire, corruption, TV channel and the chocolate factory he promised to sell but still owns, “pocket armies”, Right Sector and oligarchs he promised to get rid of but they all still exist and so on.

Poroshenko was trying to throw so much BS, I couldn’t help laughing at each answer of his.
(Minute 9 of the video below): Journalist to Poroshenko: Have you ever considered the possibility that Europe needs Russia more than it needs you? It needs Russia for an agreement with Iran, it needs Russia to get an agreement on Syria, it needs Russia to combat ISIS. May be it needs Russia more than it needs Ukraine? Do you consider the possibility that they care more about offending Russia than pleasing you?

(Minute 10.47 of the video): Minsk agreements. Journalist to Poroshenko: We’ve seen shelling, OSCE has been reporting a number of cease violations:
- you’re missing the deadlines.
- why are your Grads rocket launching still in territory where they should not to be now in November as cited by OSCE 2 days ago?
Why are your Grads missiles launching in the place they shouldn’t be? OSCE is reporting it.
So, the report is wrong? You say it’s wrong.
So, they got it wrong?
But you and OSCE can’t both be right.
So, you have a different interpretation of this from OSCE?
Poroshenko interview causes stir online | World | DW.COM | 13.11.2015

* Putin: As you recall, the key here is political settlement, creating the political conditions, the most important of which is amending the Ukrainian Constitution, which is clearly set in the Minsk Agreements: it states in black and white that the Ukrainian side must make amendments to its Constitution by the end of 2015. As we can see, this has not been done.
Unfortunately, all of this remains unresolved. But this does not depend on Russia alone, and depends less on Russia right now than our partners in KievNews conference following Russian-Hungarian talks

Putin: You spoke of sanctions. Everyone says that the Minsk Agreements must be implemented and then the sanctions issue may be reconsidered. This is beginning to resemble the theatre of the absurd because everything essential that needs to be done with regard to implementing the Minsk Agreements is the responsibility of the current Kiev authorities. You cannot demand that Moscow do something that needs to be done by Kiev. For example, the main, the key issue in the settlement process is political in its nature and the constitutional reform lies in its core. This is Point 11 of the Minsk Agreements. It expressly states that the constitutional reform must be carried out and it is not Moscow that is to make these decisions.
Interview to German newspaper Bild. Part 1

* Medvedev, Russian PM: First and most important, a comprehensive ceasefire is not being observed in southeastern Ukraine. Shooting is routinely reported at the line of contact, which should not be happening. And we must send a clear signal to all the parties involved, in this regard.

Second, amendments to the Ukrainian Constitution have not been approved to this day, although this should have been done by the end of 2015. And the law on a special status for Donbass has not been implemented.Instead of coordinating specific decentralisation parameters with the regions, and this is the crucial issue, Ukraine has adopted so-called “transitional provisions,” even though the above requirements were put in black and white in the Minsk Agreements.

Third, Kiev continues to insist that local elections be based on a new Ukrainian law. Furthermore, Kiev has not implemented its commitment on a broad amnesty that should embrace all those who were involved in the developments in Ukraine in 2014-2015. Without being amnestied, these people will be unable to participate in elections, which will make any election results questionable. The OSCE will not endorse this.

As I said, the Minsk Agreements must be implemented in full and this is Russia’s stance on the issue. At the same time, being reasonable people open to discussing various ideas, including a compromise, we, for instance, accepted the initiative of Mr Steinmeier on the temporary application of the law on special status as soon as the election campaign begins. After the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights recognises the election results, this law must be applied permanently. But there’s still no progress here, despite the compromise suggested.

Of course, the humanitarian situation is extremely alarming. The economy of southeastern Ukraine is deteriorating, that part of Ukraine is blockaded, and the German Chancellor’s initiative on the restoration of the banking system in the region there has been rejected. Tens of thousands of people are living on the verge of a humanitarian catastrophe.

Oddly, Russia seems to be more concerned about this than Ukraine, why is this so? We have been sending and will have to continue sending humanitarian convoys to southeastern Ukraine.

I must say that Russia has shown and will continue to show reasonable flexibility in the implementation of the Minsk Agreements where this doesn’t contradict their essence. But we can’t do what is not in our competence. That is, we cannot implement the political and legal obligations of the Kiev government. This is under the direct authority of the President, the Government and the Parliament of Ukraine. But unfortunately, it appears that they don’t have the will or a desire to do it. I think this has become obvious to everyone.
Medvedev’s Speech at the Munich Security Conference Panel Discussion

 

[ESay]

I don't know if your are correct, but I don't think it makes even the slightest difference.

When the EU and others introduced trade sanctions against Russia, Russian introduced trade sanctions against the EU and others.

This is a normal result of any protectionism. Whoever tries to limit trade, will nearly always have their own trade limited.

The result is, economic decline for all parties.

Actually it makes the difference. The EU prohibited the exports of some of its goods to Russia; Russia prohibited the imports of some European goods. Do you see any difference? The European sanctions have nothing to do with the protectionism.

No, there is no difference.

Think about it.... the theory is that if we prevent the import of cheap foreign made goods, that our economy will boom.

Ok, so if you don't like the EU perspective, just flip it around. Russia prevented the import of EU goods. According to the protectionism theory, Russia should be having an economic boom. Because all those goods produced in Europe, should now be forced to be made in Russia. Jobs should be created. Investment should be increasing. Production should be booming.

Russia should be turning into the economic power house of the world right now... according to the protectionism theory.

Isn't that what we here in the West? If we just prevent the import of cheap goods, then Ford will be forced to build it's manufacturing plant in the US.... right?

So the EU and Russia have prevented the import of goods into Russia. That should force all the corporations to build manufacturing plants in Russia, creating jobs, producing goods, growing the economy.

Right? What am I missing? What's different? You tell me.

I understood your point. Of course, the prevention of imports doesn’t mean that the local economy will be automatically booming. There need to be conditions which will make it possible to produce something. And sometimes it takes years to create these conditions. Also, much depends on which goods are prohibited.

 

[Andylusion]

Right, so the Ukraines are fighting back to take the land you are stealing from them. We should we not support them? You expect to support stealing the land from them, right?

How about the Crimean Tatars that lived in Crimea before the Soviets stole it from them, and murdered them?

Should we help them fight you to take back Crimea from you? After all, they were there first. Isn't that your argument that you want to take Ukraine?

You said that we should not consider who was the first, so we can't base on that. Try show other arguments up. Yes, there is one more reason to fight ukraine - because they threaten Russia and try to be member of NATO, which since the collapse of USSR is trying to get closer and closer to russian borders. This is an aggressive politics, which needs to have an answer. Also it is fair to fight country which is willing to have a war with you, is it not?

There is no evidence that I've seen, that Ukraine PRIOR to the invasion of Russia, was trying to a member of NATO. They were trying to open more trade with the EU.

But they were NOT trying to be part of NATO.

*NOW*.... after you have bombed, fired shells, killed hundred of their people, and confiscated their land...> YEAH < ! They are trying to join NATO. ANYONE you do that to, is going to try and join NATO. *YOU* caused this. By MURDERING their daughters, and children, YEAH they want to join NATO now. Not a shock. Not a surprise.

If you do what you did to Ukraine, to any other neighboring country, they will ALL try and join NATO.

No, I'm not suggesting anything. You are. You are saying that because such and such a people lived in Ukraine over a hundred years ago, that you have a right to own Ukraine.

If that is the belief system you want to go by, then 90% of Russia today, needs to be turned over to others. Mongolia owned most of the Stepp, long before the 'Kievan Rus' people ever existed. You better start giving it all back eh? If you think that is the determining factor, then live up to your claims. Start returning the land to the Mongols. And China for that matter.

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

 

[Andylusion]

I don't know if your are correct, but I don't think it makes even the slightest difference.

When the EU and others introduced trade sanctions against Russia, Russian introduced trade sanctions against the EU and others.

This is a normal result of any protectionism. Whoever tries to limit trade, will nearly always have their own trade limited.

The result is, economic decline for all parties.

Actually it makes the difference. The EU prohibited the exports of some of its goods to Russia; Russia prohibited the imports of some European goods. Do you see any difference? The European sanctions have nothing to do with the protectionism.

No, there is no difference.

Think about it.... the theory is that if we prevent the import of cheap foreign made goods, that our economy will boom.

Ok, so if you don't like the EU perspective, just flip it around. Russia prevented the import of EU goods. According to the protectionism theory, Russia should be having an economic boom. Because all those goods produced in Europe, should now be forced to be made in Russia. Jobs should be created. Investment should be increasing. Production should be booming.

Russia should be turning into the economic power house of the world right now... according to the protectionism theory.

Isn't that what we here in the West? If we just prevent the import of cheap goods, then Ford will be forced to build it's manufacturing plant in the US.... right?

So the EU and Russia have prevented the import of goods into Russia. That should force all the corporations to build manufacturing plants in Russia, creating jobs, producing goods, growing the economy.

Right? What am I missing? What's different? You tell me.

I understood your point. Of course, the prevention of imports doesn’t mean that the local economy will be automatically booming. There need to be conditions which will make it possible to produce something. And sometimes it takes years to create these conditions. Also, much depends on which goods are prohibited.

The claim is that call manufactured goods should be protected against. If it takes years to create the conditions, then there is little chance those conditions would ever be created.

Think about it....

If you ban the import, or tariff import of manufactured goods to make an automobile. It's true you could say, that it would likely take years to get all the suppliers, and material, building plans, and production plan, and financing in place, to finally open a production facility to make the parts needed to make an automobile.

But let me ask you... what does the auto plant do in the couple of years, before the goods they used to import, to make their product, can be made domestically?

Obviously they close. But of course, without demand for those parts to be made, why would they open such a plant? So the auto part manufacturer is never built. And all the jobs at the auto plant, is lost.

1930s. Protectionism created the great depression.

 

[Maggdy]

Right, so the Ukraines are fighting back to take the land you are stealing from them. We should we not support them? You expect to support stealing the land from them, right?

How about the Crimean Tatars that lived in Crimea before the Soviets stole it from them, and murdered them?

Should we help them fight you to take back Crimea from you? After all, they were there first. Isn't that your argument that you want to take Ukraine?

You said that we should not consider who was the first, so we can't base on that. Try show other arguments up. Yes, there is one more reason to fight ukraine - because they threaten Russia and try to be member of NATO, which since the collapse of USSR is trying to get closer and closer to russian borders. This is an aggressive politics, which needs to have an answer. Also it is fair to fight country which is willing to have a war with you, is it not?

There is no evidence that I've seen, that Ukraine PRIOR to the invasion of Russia, was trying to a member of NATO. They were trying to open more trade with the EU.

But they were NOT trying to be part of NATO.

*NOW*.... after you have bombed, fired shells, killed hundred of their people, and confiscated their land...> YEAH < ! They are trying to join NATO. ANYONE you do that to, is going to try and join NATO. *YOU* caused this. By MURDERING their daughters, and children, YEAH they want to join NATO now. Not a shock. Not a surprise.

If you do what you did to Ukraine, to any other neighboring country, they will ALL try and join NATO.

No, I'm not suggesting anything. You are. You are saying that because such and such a people lived in Ukraine over a hundred years ago, that you have a right to own Ukraine.

If that is the belief system you want to go by, then 90% of Russia today, needs to be turned over to others. Mongolia owned most of the Stepp, long before the 'Kievan Rus' people ever existed. You better start giving it all back eh? If you think that is the determining factor, then live up to your claims. Start returning the land to the Mongols. And China for that matter.

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

In Russia a lot people does not like Putin.

In Moscow the protest of marchers demanded the resignation of Russian President Vladimir Putin. (27. febr.2016.)

"Tens of thousands have turned out for a memorial march in Moscow after the murder of prominent Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov.

The former deputy prime minister and fierce critic of the Kremlin was gunned down as he walked home with his girlfriend on Friday night.

The killing took place just 200 metres from the Kremlin, and came just before Nemtsov was due to lead a big rally against the war in Ukraine."

 

[montelatici]

You said that we should not consider who was the first, so we can't base on that. Try show other arguments up. Yes, there is one more reason to fight ukraine - because they threaten Russia and try to be member of NATO, which since the collapse of USSR is trying to get closer and closer to russian borders. This is an aggressive politics, which needs to have an answer. Also it is fair to fight country which is willing to have a war with you, is it not?

There is no evidence that I've seen, that Ukraine PRIOR to the invasion of Russia, was trying to a member of NATO. They were trying to open more trade with the EU.

But they were NOT trying to be part of NATO.

*NOW*.... after you have bombed, fired shells, killed hundred of their people, and confiscated their land...> YEAH < ! They are trying to join NATO. ANYONE you do that to, is going to try and join NATO. *YOU* caused this. By MURDERING their daughters, and children, YEAH they want to join NATO now. Not a shock. Not a surprise.

If you do what you did to Ukraine, to any other neighboring country, they will ALL try and join NATO.

No, I'm not suggesting anything. You are. You are saying that because such and such a people lived in Ukraine over a hundred years ago, that you have a right to own Ukraine.

If that is the belief system you want to go by, then 90% of Russia today, needs to be turned over to others. Mongolia owned most of the Stepp, long before the 'Kievan Rus' people ever existed. You better start giving it all back eh? If you think that is the determining factor, then live up to your claims. Start returning the land to the Mongols. And China for that matter.

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

 

[Igrok_]

You said that we should not consider who was the first, so we can't base on that. Try show other arguments up. Yes, there is one more reason to fight ukraine - because they threaten Russia and try to be member of NATO, which since the collapse of USSR is trying to get closer and closer to russian borders. This is an aggressive politics, which needs to have an answer. Also it is fair to fight country which is willing to have a war with you, is it not?

There is no evidence that I've seen, that Ukraine PRIOR to the invasion of Russia, was trying to a member of NATO. They were trying to open more trade with the EU.

But they were NOT trying to be part of NATO.

*NOW*.... after you have bombed, fired shells, killed hundred of their people, and confiscated their land...> YEAH < ! They are trying to join NATO. ANYONE you do that to, is going to try and join NATO. *YOU* caused this. By MURDERING their daughters, and children, YEAH they want to join NATO now. Not a shock. Not a surprise.

If you do what you did to Ukraine, to any other neighboring country, they will ALL try and join NATO.

No, I'm not suggesting anything. You are. You are saying that because such and such a people lived in Ukraine over a hundred years ago, that you have a right to own Ukraine.

If that is the belief system you want to go by, then 90% of Russia today, needs to be turned over to others. Mongolia owned most of the Stepp, long before the 'Kievan Rus' people ever existed. You better start giving it all back eh? If you think that is the determining factor, then live up to your claims. Start returning the land to the Mongols. And China for that matter.

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

In Russia a lot people does not like Putin.

In Moscow the protest of marchers demanded the resignation of Russian President Vladimir Putin. (27. febr.2016.)

"Tens of thousands have turned out for a memorial march in Moscow after the murder of prominent Russian opposition figure Boris Nemtsov.

The former deputy prime minister and fierce critic of the Kremlin was gunned down as he walked home with his girlfriend on Friday night.

The killing took place just 200 metres from the Kremlin, and came just before Nemtsov was due to lead a big rally against the war in Ukraine."

many people don't love Putin, but hate these who love Nemtsov more.

 

[Andylusion]

There is no evidence that I've seen, that Ukraine PRIOR to the invasion of Russia, was trying to a member of NATO. They were trying to open more trade with the EU.

But they were NOT trying to be part of NATO.

*NOW*.... after you have bombed, fired shells, killed hundred of their people, and confiscated their land...> YEAH < ! They are trying to join NATO. ANYONE you do that to, is going to try and join NATO. *YOU* caused this. By MURDERING their daughters, and children, YEAH they want to join NATO now. Not a shock. Not a surprise.

If you do what you did to Ukraine, to any other neighboring country, they will ALL try and join NATO.

No, I'm not suggesting anything. You are. You are saying that because such and such a people lived in Ukraine over a hundred years ago, that you have a right to own Ukraine.

If that is the belief system you want to go by, then 90% of Russia today, needs to be turned over to others. Mongolia owned most of the Stepp, long before the 'Kievan Rus' people ever existed. You better start giving it all back eh? If you think that is the determining factor, then live up to your claims. Start returning the land to the Mongols. And China for that matter.

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

I said.... what evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US. Not what evidence do you have that we supported the 'coup'. The US has a long history of supporting people who overthrow their governments.

All you have here is a US diplomat saying they think Yats is the guy that can do it. They engineer a coup. There is no evidence that they gathered the protesters in Nov of 2013. There is no evidence, that we trained, equipped, and funded the overthrow of a government, like we attempted to do with the bay of pigs Cuba.

All you people have, that I have seen thus far, is pictures of US diplomats handing out cookies..... Cookies? Toll House is how we overthrow a government? The 'weapons' of our 'coup', is cookies?

Now if you have some REAL evidence... show it. I would LOVE to see REAL evidence.

 

[montelatici]

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

I said.... what evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US. Not what evidence do you have that we supported the 'coup'. The US has a long history of supporting people who overthrow their governments.

All you have here is a US diplomat saying they think Yats is the guy that can do it. They engineer a coup. There is no evidence that they gathered the protesters in Nov of 2013. There is no evidence, that we trained, equipped, and funded the overthrow of a government, like we attempted to do with the bay of pigs Cuba.

All you people have, that I have seen thus far, is pictures of US diplomats handing out cookies..... Cookies? Toll House is how we overthrow a government? The 'weapons' of our 'coup', is cookies?

Now if you have some REAL evidence... show it. I would LOVE to see REAL evidence.

Cognitive dissonance is a terrible affliction.

 

[Stratford57]

Don't understand what the belief system i want follow... in your dreams maybe.

So, now i open your eyes, these are evidences, that ukraine was trying to be member of NATO decade before the russian invasion:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Bush cautious on Ukraine Nato bid
BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia warns Kiev over Nato plans
BBC NEWS | Europe | Ukraine pushes for Nato schedule

Try to follow carefully western media and you will understand more in modern world.

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

I said.... what evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US. Not what evidence do you have that we supported the 'coup'. The US has a long history of supporting people who overthrow their governments.

All you have here is a US diplomat saying they think Yats is the guy that can do it. They engineer a coup. There is no evidence that they gathered the protesters in Nov of 2013. There is no evidence, that we trained, equipped, and funded the overthrow of a government, like we attempted to do with the bay of pigs Cuba.

All you people have, that I have seen thus far, is pictures of US diplomats handing out cookies..... Cookies? Toll House is how we overthrow a government? The 'weapons' of our 'coup', is cookies?

Now if you have some REAL evidence... show it. I would LOVE to see REAL evidence.

Hey, Andy, everybody would love to have the real evidence, but usually the REAL real evidence pops up when the regime goes away (in this case in Ukraine or in Washington or both). And we all are looking forward for that. However even now the people in West who were happy about “democratic changes in Ukraine” just two years ago, start opening their eyes and see ugly reality in uk-Ruin (that’s what remained from Ukraine after being under the Junta for 2 years). So, below I am presenting a lot of facts from mainly Western journalists right now. The new French documentary “Masks of Revolution”, released just a month ago, contains a lot of real evidence. ENJOY!

1. Azarov, the former PM of Ukraine: This is how a regime of totalitarian repression is working against any dissident. Oles Buzina for example, definitely no opposition figure. He insulted us and me personally, but I never thought a second to do him any harm, and then he was killed in front of his own porch. Nowadays his murderers are the heroes of Ukraine, they could leave the court room without being detained. I was sentenced to jail in absentia, and Buzin’s murderers — lax house arrest, the only demand for them is to spend the nights at home. There are thousands of such examples: hundreds are missing, thousands are political prisoners, on television — terrible censorship.
Nikolay Azarov about Ukrainian Coup d'Etat and Future of the Crimean Peninsular

Azarov: In Ukraine the average retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries.Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!)Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing whatthe free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

2. Under the control of the current Ukrainian Finances Minister, an American citizen and ex- State Department employee Natalia Yaresko (who controls all the finances in UKRAINE!) the following has occurred:
- inflation level raised up to 44%, which is the record number during all the history of ghrivna (Ukrainian national currency) existence;
- national currency depreciated 3 times;
- utilities payments raised 5 times (up to 3/4 of the average retirement];
- salaries stayed the same.

3. I [Stratford] can also add: food and medicine prices grew up enormously and became non affordable for the majority of the population: people are complaining about going to the food stores like to museums and sometimes a course of medicine for 2 or 3 weeks costs half or retirement payment or even a lot more. A lot of people are dying because they can’t afford medical help or even to buy necessary (vital) medicine. The civil war in 2014 costed thousands of lives from both sides of the conflict: the Junta (mainly Jews) running the country (and controlled by Jews from Washington like Nuland, Soros and Co) has successfully sent Christians from the West to go and to kill Christians from the East of the country. Total corruption doesn’t help the people to survive either.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away



4. The country is under total external control. Minute 5.30 of the video below, Kasko the General Prosecutor's Assistant says: “Before making a final decision about resigning I have consulted with our foreign partners and we have agreed that it’s the only right decision.” Neither President or government can’t even fart without “their foreign partners’” permission any more.


5. The US deposed the pro Russian Yanukovych through funding the protests last year, so to say the US has no part in expanding NATO is false.
Head of Stratfor, 'Private CIA,' Says Overthrow of Yanukovych Was 'The Most Blatant Coup in History' Washington's Blog

6. US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “ We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these goals.”
U.S. Admits It Spent 5 Billion to Overthrow Ukraine
Soros has spent even more but preferred to remain silent about that.

7. The Odessa Massacre

"Masks of Revolution":
LiveLeak.com - Documentary: Ukraine - Masks of revolution. Eng. Subs.
Documentary: Ukraine – Masks of revolution. Eng. Subs | The Vineyard of the Saker
(both with Eng subtitles. In case not available, Google "Ukraine, Masks of Revolution" , documentary by Paul Moreira)

8. The synopsis to "The Masks of Revolution" directed by Paul Moreira as posted on the Canal+ website reads that the movie presents a special investigation into the events that unfolded in Ukraine in 2014. In particular, it portrays the actions by far-right radical groups backed by the United States and the violence in the Ukrainian southern city of Odessa in May, 2014 incited by nationalists.
The principal danger of Paul Moreira heartbreaking 50-minutes long documentary is that it exposed all critically important lies and silenced facts about “Revolution of Dignity” and its agents in a concentrated form at the established French TV channel.
Euromaidan unmasked: Europe shocked by the bitter truth on Ukraine

9. This documentary lifts the veil on the deception of the US/Europe/NATO elites and their ever faithful media bullhorns. It informs us of a planned coup, described by the head of Stratfor as the most blatant ever, of the butchering of innocent people in the Odessa Trades Hall at the behest of politicians and oligarchs, and the continuing presence of heavily armed neo-Nazi thugs controlling the streets and occupying politically powerful positions in government.
Failure to act to protect would likely have seen the people of Crimea suffer the fate of many other Ukrainians, bombed in their homes by the military or bashed with poles and shot by thugs on the street.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/will-t...lution-revealed-by-french-documentary/5505682

10. For those who did not follow events at the time, the coup in Kiev was a Washington/NATO-backed regime-change operation with US Khazarian [Jewish] mafia proxies and associated loons, including Victoria Nuland and the vacuous John McCain, up to their elbows in the blood and tears of a nation.
Since then, predictably, things have not gone too well for Ukraine as tends to happen for countries touched by Washington's kiss of death.
The Russian speaking more-than-half of the country took none too kindly to their country being taken over by neo-Nazi yobs and American-backed (or just plain American) bankster oligarchs and swiftly rose in a revolt that has been tearing the country apart ever since.
Steve Cook Writer: Kiev understandably embarrassed by French documentary that lets the cat out of the bag over the Maidan coup.

11. Most likely because these Ukrainian nationalist militias actually played a significant role in a much larger scale war. The Ukrainian revolution was strongly supported by the US diplomacy.
In the new cold war that opposes Russia to the USA, Ukraine is a decisive pawn. A tactical pawn to contain Putin’s ambitions.
Ukraine, masks of the revolution

12. Forty five Ukrainians of Russian origin died in a fire inside a building [the Trades Union House in the city center of Odessa] caused by the Molotov cocktails of Ukrainian nationalist militias. After a quick investigation, I discovered that the event had not been censored. It had been addressed, discussed, but never investigated. As though too embarrassing to discuss.Why no investigation? Probably because the victims were of Russian origin.
French filmmaker Paul Moreira responds to critics of his documentary film on the Odessa Massacre of May 2, 2014 - New Cold War: Ukraine and Beyond

And all that above is just a minor tip of a huge iceberg of dirty Ukrainian reality, the world is going to learn more and more about each day. If you are REALLY interested in a "real evidence", it will take you about a day to research all the sources. If not, go somewhere else and keep annoying somebody else.

 

[Igrok_]

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

I said.... what evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US. Not what evidence do you have that we supported the 'coup'. The US has a long history of supporting people who overthrow their governments.

All you have here is a US diplomat saying they think Yats is the guy that can do it. They engineer a coup. There is no evidence that they gathered the protesters in Nov of 2013. There is no evidence, that we trained, equipped, and funded the overthrow of a government, like we attempted to do with the bay of pigs Cuba.

All you people have, that I have seen thus far, is pictures of US diplomats handing out cookies..... Cookies? Toll House is how we overthrow a government? The 'weapons' of our 'coup', is cookies?

Now if you have some REAL evidence... show it. I would LOVE to see REAL evidence.

Hey, Andy, everybody would love to have the real evidence, but usually the REAL real evidence pops up when the regime goes away (in this case in Ukraine or in Washington or both). And we all are looking forward for that. However even now the people in West who were happy about “democratic changes in Ukraine” just two years ago, start opening their eyes and see ugly reality in uk-Ruin (that’s what remained from Ukraine after being under the Junta for 2 years). So, below I am presenting a lot of facts from mainly Western journalists right now. The new French documentary “Masks of Revolution”, released just a month ago, contains a lot of real evidence. ENJOY!

1. Azarov, the former PM of Ukraine: This is how a regime of totalitarian repression is working against any dissident. Oles Buzina for example, definitely no opposition figure. He insulted us and me personally, but I never thought a second to do him any harm, and then he was killed in front of his own porch. Nowadays his murderers are the heroes of Ukraine, they could leave the court room without being detained. I was sentenced to jail in absentia, and Buzin’s murderers — lax house arrest, the only demand for them is to spend the nights at home. There are thousands of such examples: hundreds are missing, thousands are political prisoners, on television — terrible censorship.
Nikolay Azarov about Ukrainian Coup d'Etat and Future of the Crimean Peninsular

Azarov: In Ukraine the average retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries.Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!)Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing whatthe free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

2. Under the control of the current Ukrainian Finances Minister, an American citizen and ex- State Department employee Natalia Yaresko (who controls all the finances in UKRAINE!) the following has occurred:
- inflation level raised up to 44%, which is the record number during all the history of ghrivna (Ukrainian national currency) existence;
- national currency depreciated 3 times;
- utilities payments raised 5 times (up to 3/4 of the average retirement];
- salaries stayed the same.

3. I [Stratford] can also add: food and medicine prices grew up enormously and became non affordable for the majority of the population: people are complaining about going to the food stores like to museums and sometimes a course of medicine for 2 or 3 weeks costs half or retirement payment or even a lot more. A lot of people are dying because they can’t afford medical help or even to buy necessary (vital) medicine. The civil war in 2014 costed thousands of lives from both sides of the conflict: the Junta (mainly Jews) running the country (and controlled by Jews from Washington like Nuland, Soros and Co) has successfully sent Christians from the West to go and to kill Christians from the East of the country. Total corruption doesn’t help the people to survive either.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away



4. The country is under total external control. Minute 5.30 of the video below, Kasko the General Prosecutor's Assistant says: “Before making a final decision about resigning I have consulted with our foreign partners and we have agreed that it’s the only right decision.” Neither President or government can’t even fart without “their foreign partners’” permission any more.


5. The US deposed the pro Russian Yanukovych through funding the protests last year, so to say the US has no part in expanding NATO is false.
Head of Stratfor, 'Private CIA,' Says Overthrow of Yanukovych Was 'The Most Blatant Coup in History' Washington's Blog

6. US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “ We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these goals.”
U.S. Admits It Spent 5 Billion to Overthrow Ukraine
Soros has spent even more but preferred to remain silent about that.

7. The Odessa Massacre

"Masks of Revolution":
LiveLeak.com - Documentary: Ukraine - Masks of revolution. Eng. Subs.
Documentary: Ukraine – Masks of revolution. Eng. Subs | The Vineyard of the Saker
(both with Eng subtitles. In case not available, Google "Ukraine, Masks of Revolution" , documentary by Paul Moreira)

8. The synopsis to "The Masks of Revolution" directed by Paul Moreira as posted on the Canal+ website reads that the movie presents a special investigation into the events that unfolded in Ukraine in 2014. In particular, it portrays the actions by far-right radical groups backed by the United States and the violence in the Ukrainian southern city of Odessa in May, 2014 incited by nationalists.
The principal danger of Paul Moreira heartbreaking 50-minutes long documentary is that it exposed all critically important lies and silenced facts about “Revolution of Dignity” and its agents in a concentrated form at the established French TV channel.
Euromaidan unmasked: Europe shocked by the bitter truth on Ukraine

9. This documentary lifts the veil on the deception of the US/Europe/NATO elites and their ever faithful media bullhorns. It informs us of a planned coup, described by the head of Stratfor as the most blatant ever, of the butchering of innocent people in the Odessa Trades Hall at the behest of politicians and oligarchs, and the continuing presence of heavily armed neo-Nazi thugs controlling the streets and occupying politically powerful positions in government.
Failure to act to protect would likely have seen the people of Crimea suffer the fate of many other Ukrainians, bombed in their homes by the military or bashed with poles and shot by thugs on the street.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/will-t...lution-revealed-by-french-documentary/5505682

10. For those who did not follow events at the time, the coup in Kiev was a Washington/NATO-backed regime-change operation with US Khazarian [Jewish] mafia proxies and associated loons, including Victoria Nuland and the vacuous John McCain, up to their elbows in the blood and tears of a nation.
Since then, predictably, things have not gone too well for Ukraine as tends to happen for countries touched by Washington's kiss of death.
The Russian speaking more-than-half of the country took none too kindly to their country being taken over by neo-Nazi yobs and American-backed (or just plain American) bankster oligarchs and swiftly rose in a revolt that has been tearing the country apart ever since.
Steve Cook Writer: Kiev understandably embarrassed by French documentary that lets the cat out of the bag over the Maidan coup.

11. Most likely because these Ukrainian nationalist militias actually played a significant role in a much larger scale war. The Ukrainian revolution was strongly supported by the US diplomacy.
In the new cold war that opposes Russia to the USA, Ukraine is a decisive pawn. A tactical pawn to contain Putin’s ambitions.
Ukraine, masks of the revolution

12. Forty five Ukrainians of Russian origin died in a fire inside a building [the Trades Union House in the city center of Odessa] caused by the Molotov cocktails of Ukrainian nationalist militias. After a quick investigation, I discovered that the event had not been censored. It had been addressed, discussed, but never investigated. As though too embarrassing to discuss.Why no investigation? Probably because the victims were of Russian origin.
French filmmaker Paul Moreira responds to critics of his documentary film on the Odessa Massacre of May 2, 2014 - New Cold War: Ukraine and Beyond

And all that above is just a minor tip of a huge iceberg of dirty Ukrainian reality, the world is going to learn more and more about each day.

No offence, but your messages are tooooooooooo long, and hardly payed by attention from me.

 

[Stratford57]

I know, Igrok, believe me. It took me literally half a day to collect at least some "real evidence" the moron kept demanding. So all I wanted was to have enough stuff to make him fed up and stop annoying the decent people like you and me, ha-ha..

Russian humor:
-"Кто такой зануда?"
- "Это тот, кому проще отдаться, чем объяснить, почему ты не можешь это сделать."
Как-то так...
Translation (as close as possible):
-" How would you describe an annoying person?"
- "It's a person, who would be easier to allow to screw you than to explain why he shouldn't do it."

 

[ESay]

The claim is that call manufactured goods should be protected against. If it takes years to create the conditions, then there is little chance those conditions would ever be created.

Think about it....

If you ban the import, or tariff import of manufactured goods to make an automobile. It's true you could say, that it would likely take years to get all the suppliers, and material, building plans, and production plan, and financing in place, to finally open a production facility to make the parts needed to make an automobile.

But let me ask you... what does the auto plant do in the couple of years, before the goods they used to import, to make their product, can be made domestically?

Obviously they close. But of course, without demand for those parts to be made, why would they open such a plant? So the auto part manufacturer is never built. And all the jobs at the auto plant, is lost.

1930s. Protectionism created the great depression.

If you want to build an auto plant, then at first you need to create those facilities which will be able to produce the auto parts. And only after these facilities are built, you build the auto plant.


Also, you can go another way (and I think it will be more rationale). You build an auto assembly plant, and after that you hike the tariffs on imported cars, but give tax benefits to those foreign producers who agree to assemble their cars on your plant (they will use their parts, of course). I don’t know how it sounds in English; in Russian it is called “отверточная сборка”. After that you begin developing facilities which can produce some auto parts. When the number of these facilities is enough to produce for example 20 per cent of the auto parts needed, you demand that the foreign producers use these parts if they want to preserve their benefits. Then you increase these facilities to 50 per cent and so on. After a while you will have your own facilities to build a car without the foreign producers.

Of course, it is very simplified scenario. In the real live everything will be more difficult.

 

[Andylusion]

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

I said.... what evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US. Not what evidence do you have that we supported the 'coup'. The US has a long history of supporting people who overthrow their governments.

All you have here is a US diplomat saying they think Yats is the guy that can do it. They engineer a coup. There is no evidence that they gathered the protesters in Nov of 2013. There is no evidence, that we trained, equipped, and funded the overthrow of a government, like we attempted to do with the bay of pigs Cuba.

All you people have, that I have seen thus far, is pictures of US diplomats handing out cookies..... Cookies? Toll House is how we overthrow a government? The 'weapons' of our 'coup', is cookies?

Now if you have some REAL evidence... show it. I would LOVE to see REAL evidence.

Cognitive dissonance is a terrible affliction.

Lack of a valid response, indicates a lack of an argument.

Either post real evidence, or I will assume you accept you don't have an argument. Unless you really think cookies is what ever threw the Ukraine. Then that would be a different problem for you, one I'm not qualified to help you with.

 

[Andylusion]

The claim is that call manufactured goods should be protected against. If it takes years to create the conditions, then there is little chance those conditions would ever be created.

Think about it....

If you ban the import, or tariff import of manufactured goods to make an automobile. It's true you could say, that it would likely take years to get all the suppliers, and material, building plans, and production plan, and financing in place, to finally open a production facility to make the parts needed to make an automobile.

But let me ask you... what does the auto plant do in the couple of years, before the goods they used to import, to make their product, can be made domestically?

Obviously they close. But of course, without demand for those parts to be made, why would they open such a plant? So the auto part manufacturer is never built. And all the jobs at the auto plant, is lost.

1930s. Protectionism created the great depression.

If you want to build an auto plant, then at first you need to create those facilities which will be able to produce the auto parts. And only after these facilities are built, you build the auto plant.


Also, you can go another way (and I think it will be more rationale). You build an auto assembly plant, and after that you hike the tariffs on imported cars, but give tax benefits to those foreign producers who agree to assemble their cars on your plant (they will use their parts, of course). I don’t know how it sounds in English; in Russian it is called “отверточная сборка”. After that you begin developing facilities which can produce some auto parts. When the number of these facilities is enough to produce for example 20 per cent of the auto parts needed, you demand that the foreign producers use these parts if they want to preserve their benefits. Then you increase these facilities to 50 per cent and so on. After a while you will have your own facilities to build a car without the foreign producers.

Of course, it is very simplified scenario. In the real live everything will be more difficult.

Right, and all those facilities exist today. The auto plant in Marysville has part manufacturers all over the world. Parts come from Mexico, Canada, and Japan, and several others, to provide the parts for that plant. If we engage in protectionism, and prevent those imports, to "bring jobs back", how long do you think that plant can run, without imported parts? Ironically, because of the tax situation, where companies have to pay tax on goods sitting on the shelf, most manufacturing runs "just-in-time" suppliers. Meaning that on any given day they usually have barely enough stock to continue production for one day.

No doubt the same is true over in Eastern Europe, which is why the trade sanctions on both sides have had such quick and devastating effect on both sides.

 

[Andylusion]

Ok, you got me. I had never seen that before. I knew they were trying to join WTO, but I did not know they wanted to join NATO.

Of course, you basically proved their concerns correct. Did you not? They were worried about Russian aggression, and look what's happened? Thousands dead, troops deployed on their land, and entire sections of the country utterly ruined.

It would seem their concerns were justified.

And who are those who say Ukraine wants to join NATO and EU? Those are Ukrainian rulers, the Washington’s puppets, not the Ukrainian citizens: there was never ever a referendum in Ukraine to find out the people’s opinion: some want to and some are strictly against it.

View attachment 65274

1. In 2005 Washington made its puppet Yuschenko become a President of Ukraine, which included a lot of fraud, threatening and violation of Ukrainian constitution (the third tour of voting). That was when Ukraine Suddenly started “wanting” to join NATO and “to chose” the European direction versus Russian.

2. In 2014 after the coup, organized, sponsored and supported by Washington the junta started breaking apart all the connections with Russia, promising “a beautiful European future” for Ukraine and destroying everything and everybody who was against it. And that’s why Crimeans took their chance and escaped that mess.


However “beautiful European future” turned to be “ugly Ukrainian reality”. Only within 2 years after the coup Ukraine is sunk in misery, corruption, suppression of speech and taken over by criminals and Nazis.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away

Azarov, the previous PM of Ukraine: In Ukraine the normal retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . Can that be considered "normal"? There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries .
Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!) Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing what the free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

The question is: was it worth to make a coup just a year before the country could elect a new President? And why the West keeps calling the genocide in Ukraine “democracy”? Hypocrisy? I would also recommend those, who criticize Russia's actions about Ukraine, to pay attention to Turkey's actions about Syria. If West were not so hypocritical it would condemn Turkey and put sanctions on it long time ago.

What evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US?
Also what evidence of "genocide" would you care to post?

I said.... what evidence do you have that the "coup" was sponsored by the US. Not what evidence do you have that we supported the 'coup'. The US has a long history of supporting people who overthrow their governments.

All you have here is a US diplomat saying they think Yats is the guy that can do it. They engineer a coup. There is no evidence that they gathered the protesters in Nov of 2013. There is no evidence, that we trained, equipped, and funded the overthrow of a government, like we attempted to do with the bay of pigs Cuba.

All you people have, that I have seen thus far, is pictures of US diplomats handing out cookies..... Cookies? Toll House is how we overthrow a government? The 'weapons' of our 'coup', is cookies?

Now if you have some REAL evidence... show it. I would LOVE to see REAL evidence.

Hey, Andy, everybody would love to have the real evidence, but usually the REAL real evidence pops up when the regime goes away (in this case in Ukraine or in Washington or both). And we all are looking forward for that. However even now the people in West who were happy about “democratic changes in Ukraine” just two years ago, start opening their eyes and see ugly reality in uk-Ruin (that’s what remained from Ukraine after being under the Junta for 2 years). So, below I am presenting a lot of facts from mainly Western journalists right now. The new French documentary “Masks of Revolution”, released just a month ago, contains a lot of real evidence. ENJOY!

1. Azarov, the former PM of Ukraine: This is how a regime of totalitarian repression is working against any dissident. Oles Buzina for example, definitely no opposition figure. He insulted us and me personally, but I never thought a second to do him any harm, and then he was killed in front of his own porch. Nowadays his murderers are the heroes of Ukraine, they could leave the court room without being detained. I was sentenced to jail in absentia, and Buzin’s murderers — lax house arrest, the only demand for them is to spend the nights at home. There are thousands of such examples: hundreds are missing, thousands are political prisoners, on television — terrible censorship.
Nikolay Azarov about Ukrainian Coup d'Etat and Future of the Crimean Peninsular

Azarov: In Ukraine the average retirement payment is 40 Euros per month,.The average salary is about 150 Euros . There are not too many countries in the world with such miserable salaries.Somalia is offended when they are compared to Ukraine.The population over the past two years decreased from 45.6 million to less than 40 million.In 2015, (compared to 2014) died 104 thousand people more (the population of an average Ukrainian town!)Plants and factories do not work, exports fell down by almost 2 times.
In two years after the Maidan in Kyiv, it seems like the people started to slowly realizing whatthe free trade zone between Ukraine and the European Union, which they dreamed of, - is a myth.
Google Translate

2. Under the control of the current Ukrainian Finances Minister, an American citizen and ex- State Department employee Natalia Yaresko (who controls all the finances in UKRAINE!) the following has occurred:
- inflation level raised up to 44%, which is the record number during all the history of ghrivna (Ukrainian national currency) existence;
- national currency depreciated 3 times;
- utilities payments raised 5 times (up to 3/4 of the average retirement];
- salaries stayed the same.

3. I [Stratford] can also add: food and medicine prices grew up enormously and became non affordable for the majority of the population: people are complaining about going to the food stores like to museums and sometimes a course of medicine for 2 or 3 weeks costs half or retirement payment or even a lot more. A lot of people are dying because they can’t afford medical help or even to buy necessary (vital) medicine. The civil war in 2014 costed thousands of lives from both sides of the conflict: the Junta (mainly Jews) running the country (and controlled by Jews from Washington like Nuland, Soros and Co) has successfully sent Christians from the West to go and to kill Christians from the East of the country. Total corruption doesn’t help the people to survive either.
The corruption that fueled Ukraine’s 2014 revolution won’t go away



4. The country is under total external control. Minute 5.30 of the video below, Kasko the General Prosecutor's Assistant says: “Before making a final decision about resigning I have consulted with our foreign partners and we have agreed that it’s the only right decision.” Neither President or government can’t even fart without “their foreign partners’” permission any more.


5. The US deposed the pro Russian Yanukovych through funding the protests last year, so to say the US has no part in expanding NATO is false.
Head of Stratfor, 'Private CIA,' Says Overthrow of Yanukovych Was 'The Most Blatant Coup in History' Washington's Blog

6. US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “ We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these goals.”
U.S. Admits It Spent 5 Billion to Overthrow Ukraine
Soros has spent even more but preferred to remain silent about that.

7. The Odessa Massacre

"Masks of Revolution":
LiveLeak.com - Documentary: Ukraine - Masks of revolution. Eng. Subs.
Documentary: Ukraine – Masks of revolution. Eng. Subs | The Vineyard of the Saker
(both with Eng subtitles. In case not available, Google "Ukraine, Masks of Revolution" , documentary by Paul Moreira)

8. The synopsis to "The Masks of Revolution" directed by Paul Moreira as posted on the Canal+ website reads that the movie presents a special investigation into the events that unfolded in Ukraine in 2014. In particular, it portrays the actions by far-right radical groups backed by the United States and the violence in the Ukrainian southern city of Odessa in May, 2014 incited by nationalists.
The principal danger of Paul Moreira heartbreaking 50-minutes long documentary is that it exposed all critically important lies and silenced facts about “Revolution of Dignity” and its agents in a concentrated form at the established French TV channel.
Euromaidan unmasked: Europe shocked by the bitter truth on Ukraine

9. This documentary lifts the veil on the deception of the US/Europe/NATO elites and their ever faithful media bullhorns. It informs us of a planned coup, described by the head of Stratfor as the most blatant ever, of the butchering of innocent people in the Odessa Trades Hall at the behest of politicians and oligarchs, and the continuing presence of heavily armed neo-Nazi thugs controlling the streets and occupying politically powerful positions in government.
Failure to act to protect would likely have seen the people of Crimea suffer the fate of many other Ukrainians, bombed in their homes by the military or bashed with poles and shot by thugs on the street.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/will-t...lution-revealed-by-french-documentary/5505682

10. For those who did not follow events at the time, the coup in Kiev was a Washington/NATO-backed regime-change operation with US Khazarian [Jewish] mafia proxies and associated loons, including Victoria Nuland and the vacuous John McCain, up to their elbows in the blood and tears of a nation.
Since then, predictably, things have not gone too well for Ukraine as tends to happen for countries touched by Washington's kiss of death.
The Russian speaking more-than-half of the country took none too kindly to their country being taken over by neo-Nazi yobs and American-backed (or just plain American) bankster oligarchs and swiftly rose in a revolt that has been tearing the country apart ever since.
Steve Cook Writer: Kiev understandably embarrassed by French documentary that lets the cat out of the bag over the Maidan coup.

11. Most likely because these Ukrainian nationalist militias actually played a significant role in a much larger scale war. The Ukrainian revolution was strongly supported by the US diplomacy.
In the new cold war that opposes Russia to the USA, Ukraine is a decisive pawn. A tactical pawn to contain Putin’s ambitions.
Ukraine, masks of the revolution

12. Forty five Ukrainians of Russian origin died in a fire inside a building [the Trades Union House in the city center of Odessa] caused by the Molotov cocktails of Ukrainian nationalist militias. After a quick investigation, I discovered that the event had not been censored. It had been addressed, discussed, but never investigated. As though too embarrassing to discuss.Why no investigation? Probably because the victims were of Russian origin.
French filmmaker Paul Moreira responds to critics of his documentary film on the Odessa Massacre of May 2, 2014 - New Cold War: Ukraine and Beyond

And all that above is just a minor tip of a huge iceberg of dirty Ukrainian reality, the world is going to learn more and more about each day. If you are REALLY interested in a "real evidence", it will take you about a day to research all the sources. If not, go somewhere else and keep annoying somebody else.

You kind of went off into some wacky place. The context of the question on "real evidence", isn't some broad "why is Ukraine the way that it is".

I specifically want direct confirmed evidence that the US government, in November of 2014, was directly responsible, for the crash of the Viktor Yanukovych government.

I want to see money payments, in the millions. I want to see supplies of guns, ammunition, organization of leaders, leaders who were opposed to overthrowing the government, but were paid off to support it. I want to see training, heavy weapons, supplies to feed an army.

Not cookies, and a cable from a diplomat saying she supports Yatz, after the coup had already happened.

Now to answer some of your post....

1. There is no question bad stuff happened during the orange revolution. Perhaps you missed what happened during the Soviet revolution in Russia? Most revolutions end up badly.

2. Yes, under the current system, bad things have happened for Ukraine. That has nothing to do with the question I'm asking.

3. There is no question that there is corruption in the Ukraine government, as there is in nearly all governments. And it's possible that corruption is causing problems in the economy. True that may be, that has nothing to do with my question.

4. Yes, the Ukraine government is under external control. Especially now. Before the 2014 protests, they were under the control of Russia. Now, without the support of the west, they would be completely conquered and murdered by Russia. So yes, everything they do, goes with approval from those who are supporting them.

5. The claim that the CIA organized the overthrow is not new. Russia has been pumping out propaganda to that effect since the very start. I'm not asking you to show me the claims. Show me the evidence. What evidence do you have?

6. Nuland said we spent $5 Billion to help the Ukraine, which is true. Since 1991. Thats only about $200 Million a year. Must of that money went to reconstruction projects, agriculture, cultural, humanitarian and economic, as well as scientific and democratic institutions. Most of the $5 Billion, was spent in the first decade of independence.

You can actually look up what specifically the US government has spent on the Ukraine in the last 5 years. It isn't much.

7. Yes the Odessa Massacre. What's that got to do with the US? Ukrainians didn't like that Russians showed up with paramilitary forces in their country. Tends to piss people off. If Mexican special forces occupied Nevada, and some Mexicans started marching in the cities... peaceful or not..... that would cause some violence. Don't do that. Dumb idea.

Maybe I'll watch the documentaries later. Every time someone points to one of these random 'documentaries' they end up being crap. But who knows, maybe it says something of value.

 

[ESay]

Right, and all those facilities exist today. The auto plant in Marysville has part manufacturers all over the world. Parts come from Mexico, Canada, and Japan, and several others, to provide the parts for that plant. If we engage in protectionism, and prevent those imports, to "bring jobs back", how long do you think that plant can run, without imported parts? Ironically, because of the tax situation, where companies have to pay tax on goods sitting on the shelf, most manufacturing runs "just-in-time" suppliers. Meaning that on any given day they usually have barely enough stock to continue production for one day.

You should prohibit these imports only after similar facilities are created in your country.
It is flaws in the tax policy. If the taxation damages the economy, then you should change the tax system.

No doubt the same is true over in Eastern Europe, which is why the trade sanctions on both sides have had such quick and devastating effect on both sides.

I don’t understand why you consider these sanctions in context of protectionism. The reason of imposing the EU’s sanctions against Russia has nothing to do with protectionism. Actually they are the opposite of protectionism because they hurt European companies (prohibited not imports but exports). Russian sanctions (so-called counter-sanctions) may be considered to be protectionism. Unless I am mistaken, Russian officials claim that these counter-sanctions have positive impact on Russian agriculture.

 

[Andylusion]

Right, and all those facilities exist today. The auto plant in Marysville has part manufacturers all over the world. Parts come from Mexico, Canada, and Japan, and several others, to provide the parts for that plant. If we engage in protectionism, and prevent those imports, to "bring jobs back", how long do you think that plant can run, without imported parts? Ironically, because of the tax situation, where companies have to pay tax on goods sitting on the shelf, most manufacturing runs "just-in-time" suppliers. Meaning that on any given day they usually have barely enough stock to continue production for one day.

You should prohibit these imports only after similar facilities are created in your country.
It is flaws in the tax policy. If the taxation damages the economy, then you should change the tax system.

No doubt the same is true over in Eastern Europe, which is why the trade sanctions on both sides have had such quick and devastating effect on both sides.

I don’t understand why you consider these sanctions in context of protectionism. The reason of imposing the EU’s sanctions against Russia has nothing to do with protectionism. Actually they are the opposite of protectionism because they hurt European companies (prohibited not imports but exports). Russian sanctions (so-called counter-sanctions) may be considered to be protectionism. Unless I am mistaken, Russian officials claim that these counter-sanctions have positive impact on Russian agriculture.

Because it doesn't matter. The intentions are irrelevant. Regardless of the reasons why, or the methods used to enforce them... the result is exactly the same..... Loss of Trade.