Can Ukraine Still Win?

[shockedcanadian]

An informative article if you are interested in such matters (and we all should be).

Of most interest to me has been the replacement of Ukraines top general. It is interesting for a number of reasons, first, Zelensky was horribly incorrect in believing that Russia would not attack, but his general was not.

Here is the section I find most important:

The war in Ukraine has led to more than its share of arguments. In the run-up, the U.S. spent months warning skeptical allies that an invasion was imminent. This argument was mirrored inside Ukraine: Zaluzhny became convinced that the Russians were coming, and spent the weeks before the war urging a mobilization; Zelensky remained uncertain, and resisted the advice, worried that it would panic the population and give Russia an excuse to invade. There was widespread consensus that, in the event of an invasion, Russia would quickly win. General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told congressional leaders in early February of 2022 that the Russian military might take Kyiv in as little as seventy-two hours.

When this did not happen, in part because Zaluzhny repositioned some of his forces without authorization and moved or camouflaged the country’s military hardware, a new round of arguments broke out. Was Russia a paper tiger, or did it simply fight in the stupidest possible way? Was China also overrated? Was the tank dead (again)?



This is all curious as one wonders why Zelensky would undermine his general, the man who was right and who betrayed his orders (thankfully) to NOT be prepared for Russia.

Would America had done this to Patton? Germany to Rommell? Britain to Montgomery?

The worst type of leadership is one who will NOT listen to those who are on the front lines. It may be inconvenient to hear the Ukraine requires 500,000 more soldiers, but he is speaking from his vantage point of trying to win.

Can Ukraine Still Win?

As Congress continues to delay aid and Volodymyr Zelensky replaces his top commander, military experts debate the possible outcomes.

www.newyorker.com

 

[frigidweirdo]

An informative article if you are interested in such matters (and we all should be).

Of most interest to me has been the replacement of Ukraines top general. It is interesting for a number of reasons, first, Zelensky was horribly incorrect in believing that Russia would not attack, but his general was not.

Here is the section I find most important:

The war in Ukraine has led to more than its share of arguments. In the run-up, the U.S. spent months warning skeptical allies that an invasion was imminent. This argument was mirrored inside Ukraine: Zaluzhny became convinced that the Russians were coming, and spent the weeks before the war urging a mobilization; Zelensky remained uncertain, and resisted the advice, worried that it would panic the population and give Russia an excuse to invade. There was widespread consensus that, in the event of an invasion, Russia would quickly win. General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told congressional leaders in early February of 2022 that the Russian military might take Kyiv in as little as seventy-two hours.

When this did not happen, in part because Zaluzhny repositioned some of his forces without authorization and moved or camouflaged the country’s military hardware, a new round of arguments broke out. Was Russia a paper tiger, or did it simply fight in the stupidest possible way? Was China also overrated? Was the tank dead (again)?



This is all

Can Ukraine Still Win?

As Congress continues to delay aid and Volodymyr Zelensky replaces his top commander, military experts debate the possible outcomes.

www.newyorker.com

I doubt it. I think they'll lose by the summer.

 

[skye]

Nope.

Ukraine can not win.

Ukraine lost.

 

[Oddball]

no

 

[wamose]

If Ukraine miraculously won, probably a 1% chance, Then the real trouble would start. A pissed off Putin with 6000 nuclear weapons is something to worry about. Any asshole who thinks this war could be won is retarded.

 

[MaryL]

I don't give a flying fig about Ukraine. It's a non-issue. A real card caring Democrat that cares about our Constitutional Republic would actually ask US WHAT WE WANT, NOT FORCE THEIR WILL ON US!
Biden wants to hand out buku $ to Ukraine and then turns around abandons East Palestine, Maui and then opens the borders to terrorist and other shlubs and hands out cash to ANYONE or ANYTHING ACCEPT American taxpaying citizens. The Democratic party has abandoned US and abandoned DEMOCRACY. Its time to end the Democratic party.

 

[odanny]

Even though most conservatives in America are rooting for Russia, I never did think Ukraine had the manpower or enough weapons to hold off a much larger force that is the Russian Army, augmented by murderous Muslim thugs who work in concert with the dictator in the Kremlin.

We need to keep sending them more arms, though, because Russia should not be gifted another country that Putin has savagely attacked. Make him bleed for it.

Long live Ukraine.

 

[rightwinger]

I don’t think Ukraine can drive Russia out of Dunbass or Crimea
Just like N Vietnam could not drive the US out of Vietnam.

But occupations under military attack get costly. The economy can’t sustain an indefinite occupation. The public and the military grow tired of a senseless war. Putin could accidentally die.

Russia could eventually pack up and go home

 

[shockedcanadian]

Even though most conservatives in America are rooting for Russia, I never did think Ukraine had the manpower or enough weapons to hold off a much larger force that is the Russian Army, augmented by murderous Muslim thugs who work in concert with the dictator in the Kremlin.

We need to keep sending them more arms, though, because Russia should not be gifted another country that Putin has savagely attacked. Make him bleed for it.

Long live Ukraine.

Who the hell is rooting for Russia? I doubt many. They are being objective though.

The title is from the article as I always do. I believe that Ukraine can "win", which to me means Russia doesn't win. A long stalemate with Russia losing many men and military hardware.

If Russia does not succeed in taking over Ukraine and this war drags on there may be real concerns for Putins ability to remain leader. Europe has to do more, it's that simple. It is their backyard and their fight as much as anyones. Though I would argue, this is the worlds fight. Except no one will call out China for their support of Russia.

 

[progressive hunter]

An informative article if you are interested in such matters (and we all should be).

Of most interest to me has been the replacement of Ukraines top general. It is interesting for a number of reasons, first, Zelensky was horribly incorrect in believing that Russia would not attack, but his general was not.

Here is the section I find most important:

The war in Ukraine has led to more than its share of arguments. In the run-up, the U.S. spent months warning skeptical allies that an invasion was imminent. This argument was mirrored inside Ukraine: Zaluzhny became convinced that the Russians were coming, and spent the weeks before the war urging a mobilization; Zelensky remained uncertain, and resisted the advice, worried that it would panic the population and give Russia an excuse to invade. There was widespread consensus that, in the event of an invasion, Russia would quickly win. General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told congressional leaders in early February of 2022 that the Russian military might take Kyiv in as little as seventy-two hours.

When this did not happen, in part because Zaluzhny repositioned some of his forces without authorization and moved or camouflaged the country’s military hardware, a new round of arguments broke out. Was Russia a paper tiger, or did it simply fight in the stupidest possible way? Was China also overrated? Was the tank dead (again)?



This is all curious as one wonders why Zelensky would undermine his general, the man who was right and who betrayed his orders (thankfully) to NOT be prepared for Russia.

Would America had done this to Patton? Germany to Rommell? Britain to Montgomery?

The worst type of leadership is one who will NOT listen to those who are on the front lines. It may be inconvenient to hear the Ukraine requires 500,000 more soldiers, but he is speaking from his vantage point of trying to win.

Can Ukraine Still Win?

As Congress continues to delay aid and Volodymyr Zelensky replaces his top commander, military experts debate the possible outcomes.

www.newyorker.com

they lost a long time ago,,

these are just death flails,,

 

[odanny]

Who the hell is rooting for Russia? I doubt many. They are being objective though.

Is that what tney call it?

 

[Muhammed]

no

Nope . It is a huge waste of US taxpayer money.

https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/national_security_and_border_act_text.pdf

The European Union just approved $54 billion last week to fight a losing battle.

Crooked politicians in the USA want to spend ~$97 billion. (and then tried to call it a border security bill)

 

[1srelluc]

I know where he can get 500K+ military aged males at.....He just has to come here and get the illegals FJB let in rounded-up.

 

[Yarddog]

I don’t think Ukraine can drive Russia out of Dunbass or Crimea
Just like N Vietnam could not drive the US out of Vietnam.

But occupations under military attack get costly. The economy can’t sustain an indefinite occupation. The public and the military grow tired of a senseless war. Putin could accidentally die.

Russia could eventually pack up and go home

Sure this is true. We saw how costly Russia's occupation of Afghanistan was for them. This would be much worse. They would constantly be sabotaged and though It may save face for Putin in the short term, in the long run it will be his undoing probably.

 

[Silver Cat]

Sure this is true. We saw how costly Russia's occupation of Afghanistan was for them. This would be much worse. They would constantly be sabotaged and though It may save face for Putin in the short term, in the long run it will be his undoing probably.

All lands eastward from Zbruch are pretty Russian-speaking and nobody expect there actual guerilla war. In West Ukraine Russia may meet a more or less hostile population, but highly unlikely that it will be more challenging than was Chechnya. And as now Chechens are in the list of the most well trained and motivated Russian soldiers, so, highly likely, Ukrainian soldiers will be in 2034 (during Russian invasion in Poland or Germany).

 

[jwoodie]

At the rate Russia is "taking over" Europe, the UK won't be in danger until the next century.

 

[Deadstick]

An informative article if you are interested in such matters (and we all should be).

Of most interest to me has been the replacement of Ukraines top general. It is interesting for a number of reasons, first, Zelensky was horribly incorrect in believing that Russia would not attack, but his general was not.

Here is the section I find most important:

The war in Ukraine has led to more than its share of arguments. In the run-up, the U.S. spent months warning skeptical allies that an invasion was imminent. This argument was mirrored inside Ukraine: Zaluzhny became convinced that the Russians were coming, and spent the weeks before the war urging a mobilization; Zelensky remained uncertain, and resisted the advice, worried that it would panic the population and give Russia an excuse to invade. There was widespread consensus that, in the event of an invasion, Russia would quickly win. General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told congressional leaders in early February of 2022 that the Russian military might take Kyiv in as little as seventy-two hours.

When this did not happen, in part because Zaluzhny repositioned some of his forces without authorization and moved or camouflaged the country’s military hardware, a new round of arguments broke out. Was Russia a paper tiger, or did it simply fight in the stupidest possible way? Was China also overrated? Was the tank dead (again)?



This is all curious as one wonders why Zelensky would undermine his general, the man who was right and who betrayed his orders (thankfully) to NOT be prepared for Russia.

Would America had done this to Patton? Germany to Rommell? Britain to Montgomery?

The worst type of leadership is one who will NOT listen to those who are on the front lines. It may be inconvenient to hear the Ukraine requires 500,000 more soldiers, but he is speaking from his vantage point of trying to win.

Can Ukraine Still Win?

As Congress continues to delay aid and Volodymyr Zelensky replaces his top commander, military experts debate the possible outcomes.

www.newyorker.com

Anyone who thinks they can should get their head tested.

 

[Deadstick]

All lands eastward from Zbruch are pretty Russian-speaking and nobody expect there actual guerilla war. In West Ukraine Russia may meet a more or less hostile population, but highly unlikely that it will be more challenging than was Chechnya. And as now Chechens are in the list of the most well trained and motivated Russian soldiers, so, highly likely, Ukrainian soldiers will be in 2034 (during Russian invasion in Poland or Germany).

I doubt Russia is interested in West Ukraine its the home of Bandera, its the Poles and Romanians they should worry about when it goes tits up.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Anyone who thinks they can should get their head tested.

"Winning" to me is keeping Russia at bay, decimating the Russian military and defending what they can until an agreement is eventually reached.

I said from the beginning that a potential deal should have been made as I was worried, as were most experts who know far more about that region of the world than I do; that this would just lead to many unnecessary deaths as Russia was presumed to take Kiev in 72 hours or so. Again, but leading experts.

Now that Ukraine has shown they will defend their Motherland, they need to be armed. Europe in particular has to wake up. All of the lulling to sleep that China forced on them while they destroyed their own industries is finally waking them up. In the end Putin will have hopefully awoken a continent that understands war well.

 

[Deadstick]

"Winning" to me is keeping Russia at bay, decimating the Russian military and defending what they can until an agreement is eventually reached.

I said from the beginning that a potential deal should have been made as I was worried, as were most experts who know far more about that region of the world than I do; that this would just lead to many unnecessary deaths as Russia was presumed to take Kiev in 72 hours or so. Again, but leading experts.

Now that Ukraine has shown they will defend their Motherland, they need to be armed. Europe in particular has to wake up. All of the lulling to sleep that China forced on them while they destroyed their own industries is finally waking them up. In the end Putin will have hopefully awoken a continent that understands war well.

Delusional, the only ones who said Russia planned to take Kiev in three days were the Western MSM, no Russian ever said it, why can't some people see this all started with Nato expansion and a Coup in Kiev instigated by the West, they refused to take Russia's concerns about security into account and we are where we are.