Can Ukraine Still Win?

[shockedcanadian]

Delusional, the only ones who said Russia planned to take Kiev in three days were the Western MSM, no Russian ever said it, why can't some people see this all started with Nato expansion and a Coup in Kiev instigated by the West, they refused to take Russia's concerns about security into account and we are where we are.

So should we be meek in the face of China abusing Taiwan too just so we don't upset China?

Here is what men of character do. They speak the truth and stand for the abused, they don't worry about upsetting the abuser.

There may be some issue with the NATO expansion or what have you, but, it can not excuse Russia for their attack and violation of global norms. There should have at least been a direct warning and announcement of war well before they attacked.

GWB gave an ultimatum "you have until this day". Why didn't Russia at least do that to see if 12th hour negotiations could have succeeded?

 

[Deadstick]

So should we be meek in the face of China abusing Taiwan too just so we don't upset China?

Here is what men of character do. They speak the truth and stand for the abused, they don't worry about upsetting the abuser.

There may be some issue with the NATO expansion or what have you, but, it can not excuse Russia for their attack and violation of global norms. There should have at least been a direct warning and announcement of war well before they attacked.

GWB gave an ultimatum "you have until this day". Why didn't Russia at least do that to see if 12th hour negotiations could have succeeded?

For a start Taiwan is part of China, as for global norms there have been no global norms since at least Vietnam, the warning Russia gave was they would never tolerate Ukraine in Nato, all Russia ever wanted was a neutral Ukraine, at the strart of the conflict after the Coup even the anti Maidan people in Donbass would have settled for a federal set up in the Country, but the US and the nationalist nutters had other ideas.

 

[shockedcanadian]

For a start Taiwan is part of China, as for global norms there have been no global norms since at least Vietnam, the warning Russia gave was they would never tolerate Ukraine in Nato, all Russia ever wanted was a neutral Ukraine, at the strart of the conflict after the Coup even the anti Maidan people in Donbass would have settled for a federal set up in the Country, but the US and the nationalist nutters had other ideas.

The entire Taiwan question is dependent on who you ask.

Taiwanese are quite independent with their own currency, dialect and economic/political system. They saw what happen with HK and the "two systems one country" charade.

It should be THEIR right to decide this, no?

 

[para bellum]

Delusional, the only ones who said Russia planned to take Kiev in three days were the Western MSM, no Russian ever said it

In the runup, Putin's puppet Yukashenko said in an interview with Solovyov on Russian tv that "if there is an invasion it will be over in 3-4 days", and that "there will be no one to defend Ukraine".

I am sure there was other commentary on Russian media to the same effect, but Russian officials at the time were denying that an invasion was going to happen at all, so you aren't going to see any commentary from them...

Western officials gave Kiev a week, turned out to be equally wrong.

The invasion went so wrong, so fast, that no one in Russia could rationally claim it was going to be over in a few days...

@OP, neither side has the ability to deliver a knockout punch, but Ukraine today is in the same basic position they were in back in May-June of '22, that is to say they are fully defensive and effectively out of ammunition. They have a critical deficit in manpower and all the AFU formations are seriously under-strength- like at 40% levels or lower.

It has not gone well for Russia either, and Avdiivka came at a very high price. Neither side can mass troops or armor, any attempt results in almost immediate disaster. Drones rule the battlespace.

NATO has no interest in an actual Ukrainian victory, they just want a quagmire for Russia.

 

[Deadstick]

The entire Taiwan question is dependent on who you ask.

Taiwanese are quite independent with their own currency, dialect and economic/political system. They saw what happen with HK and the "two systems one country" charade.

It should be THEIR right to decide this, no?

Well HK was also part of China, then some of the puppets got violent and had to be civilized and Taiwan is not a Country its just where what was left of the nationalists ran to after the war, maybe one day the Texans may decide they want to be a seperate Country.

 

[Bleipriester]

I don’t think Ukraine can drive Russia out of Dunbass or Crimea
Just like N Vietnam could not drive the US out of Vietnam.

But occupations under military attack get costly. The economy can’t sustain an indefinite occupation. The public and the military grow tired of a senseless war. Putin could accidentally die.

Russia could eventually pack up and go home

Those places are inhabited by people who are Russians and wanted to join Russia.

 

[rightwinger]

Those places are inhabited by people who are Russians and wanted to join Russia.

According to a vote that Putin supervised?

 

[Bleipriester]

According to a vote that Putin supervised?

Read here:

Russians in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Silver Cat]

I doubt Russia is interested in West Ukraine its the home of Bandera, its the Poles and Romanians they should worry about when it goes tits up.

Yes, the Russians are not interested in West Ukraine by itself (it will be like six Chechnyas simultaneously). But they are interested in the returning NATO's military infrastructure to the borders of 1997. And, without mutually acceptable weapon control treaty (which is hardly possible at all), they won't have a choice but to take the whole Ukraine and then attack Poland, Romania, Baltic states, Finland, Sweden and so on...

 

[Deadstick]

According to a vote that Putin supervised?

Do you see the Country of Ukraine mentioned here? what you do see is Russia, the British have had a problem with Russia since that war in 1853.

Crimean War, (October 1853–February 1856), war fought mainly on the Crimean Peninsula between the Russians and the British, French, and Ottoman Turkish, with support from January 1855 by the army of Sardinia-Piedmont. The war arose from the conflict of great powers in the Middle

 

[Silver Cat]

The entire Taiwan question is dependent on who you ask.

Taiwanese are quite independent with their own currency, dialect and economic/political system. They saw what happen with HK and the "two systems one country" charade.

It should be THEIR right to decide this, no?

And it should be our right to decide whom should we support. And, after comparing Ukraine and Hongkong most of them don't ask "should we ask Americans to defend us?" - the answer is pretty clear. They ask "What can be done to do not allow Americans to defend us?" That's why more than 50% of them voted for pro-Chines parties.

 

[Couchpotato]

Even though most conservatives in America are rooting for Russia, I never did think Ukraine had the manpower or enough weapons to hold off a much larger force that is the Russian Army, augmented by murderous Muslim thugs who work in concert with the dictator in the Kremlin.

We need to keep sending them more arms, though, because Russia should not be gifted another country that Putin has savagely attacked. Make him bleed for it.

Long live Ukraine.

Yes asking for some accounting of Billions of dollars being sent to a country that was widely acknowledged as wildly corrupt and pointing out that Ukraine never had much of a chance to win and thus all we were buying is death and destruction is support for Russia.

 

[Ringo]

Imagine thinking you are effectively battling and resisting Russia when, in fact, you are serving as a training ground to hone the Russian army's skills for future clashes with NATO.

 

[22lcidw]

Imagine thinking you are effectively battling and resisting Russia when, in fact, you are serving as a training ground to hone the Russian army's skills for future clashes with NATO.

According to the Pro controlled media, Russia has lost all of its Navy, most of its Air Force and good percentage of it land artillery. Fighting a war against NATO will not last long.

 

[Ringo]

According to the Pro controlled media, Russia has lost all of its Navy, most of its Air Force and good percentage of it land artillery. Fighting a war against NATO will not last long.

Keep thinking that.