End the GOP-Dem Duopoly and Start a NEW Party; Else There is NO Choice 4 Change

[GuyPinestra]

Ron Paul became a republican because he thought the republican party best represented his views and because he didn't have a chance in hell of getting elected as a libertarian. Apparently he is still a respected republican but the radicals who claim to be libertarians are mired in hatred for republicans instead of their enemies in the socialist Obama administration. The seething hatred they pretend to have for republicans doesn't make sense unless they are mentally deranged, thoroughly ignorant or the fake libertarians are just garden variety left wing tricksters out to try to split the republican party.

For fucks sake you're an ignorant motherfucker! Ron Paul has ALWAYS been a Republican. He ran for President on the LP ticket in 1988 because he was against the former CIA boss getting the Presidency. Fucking moron!

For your information, the Republican Party just did a fantastic job of splitting ITSELF with their jackbooted tactics in Tampa last week. You can't blame that shit on anyone but Establishment hacks and Romney's attack dog lawyer.

Own it, bitch!

Ron Paul has always represented his district as a member of the Republican Party, Ron Paul resigned from the Republican Party in 1987 and launched a bid for the presidency running on the Libertarian Party ticket. - even wikipedia has this one

When one resigns from a party, they are NO longer a member of that party.

see how ignorant and stupid Ron Paul followers are?

---

Ron Paul also turned on his supposed principles in: At a September 10, 2008, press conference, Paul announced his general support of four third-party candidates: Cynthia McKinney (Green Party); Bob Barr (Libertarian Party); Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party); and Ralph Nader (independent).

Party member Ron Paul should have resigned again, but he would not...he's invested in his Congressional pension

Ignorant and stupid is what you demonstrate with your juvenile bullshit, Dante.

WTF? He resigned from the party to run as a Libertarian. I said he ran as a Libertarian. When he ran for Congress again a few years later he ran as a Republican. He has been re-elected as a Republican several times. He was also the first Congressman to endorse Ronald Reagan, is that Republican enough for you?

You should quit trying to make shit personal, it makes you look vindictive and moronic.

 

[paulitician]

Ron Paul is like many other wise prophets in History. He will not be fully embraced in his own lifetime. But there will come a day when most accept and endorse his beliefs on Freedom & Liberty. They will come around eventually. But it will take time. There's only one Ron Paul. And i for one am glad i was around to witness his class & wisdom.

 

[JoeB131]

Ron Paul is like many other wise prophets in History. He will not be fully embraced in his own lifetime. But there will come a day when most accept and endorse his beliefs on Freedom & Liberty. They will come around eventually. But it will take time. There's only one Ron Paul. And i for one am glad i was around to witness his class & wisdom.

Maybe you can start a cult...

 

[JakeStarkey]

the cult of Paulite Birferism

 

[Dick Tuck]

Ron Paul is like many other wise prophets in History. He will not be fully embraced in his own lifetime. But there will come a day when most accept and endorse his beliefs on Freedom & Liberty. They will come around eventually. But it will take time. There's only one Ron Paul. And i for one am glad i was around to witness his class & wisdom.

Maybe you can start a cult...

With Moon's recent passing, it certainly provides a window of opportunity.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory. The RNC took these steps in response to looney tune libertarian Ron Paul supporters who vowed to reign havoc during the convention. Delegates should vote for the person who won their state primary, deceiving voters so that they can get to the convention and vote otherwise is dishonest.

What the Republican Party did in response to Ron Paul delegates is the equivalent of using a flamethrower to kill a gnat.

First off, you seem to have NO CLUE as to how the delegate process works. Bound delegates are required to vote for the candidate they are bound to in the FIRST ROUND ONLY. None of the Ron Paul delegates were going to break that rule.

Second, no one deceived anyone, in most states the state conventions assign delegates based on how they vote at the convention, not on the primary popular vote. That is part of the Republican rules. What you people don't seem to remember is that Ron Paul's delegate strategy was the SAME strategy used by your hero Ronald Reagan.

You fucks broke your own rules in order to silence dissenting voices in your own party. Your Kabuki show in Tampa was nothing more than the blatant admission that the People's voices don't matter at all, that the Establishment is going to choose the nominee regardless and that the Republican Party is just as corrupt and deceitful as the Democrats.
IOW, what we witnessed wasn't a nomination, it was a coronation.

I am really getting tired of this asinine assessment. What the republicans did was incorrect but it was NOT, in any sane definition, against the will of the people or an act of ignoring them. I cannot fathom how someone that actually supports Ron Paul can be so oblivious to what he was trying to do and I say this a Paul supporter. He was BLATANTLY attempting to steal the election through a system or rules that should not have existed in the first place. What the republicans did was ACKNOWLEDGE the will of the people and ensure that the candidate they wanted was elected.

FACT: Romney garnered FAR more votes than Paul. FACT: if the delegates were ties to the will of the people, Romney would be the clear pick. What Paul was banking on was that the rules actually ignored the real votes. I can also say, without a shadow of a doubt that Paul would not win the general. It would even be WORSE because of the method that he used to gain the nomination. They should not have played fast and loose with the rules to shut out Paul and I can’t stand the asinine duopoly that exists in this country BUT this is NOT an example of any of that.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory. The RNC took these steps in response to looney tune libertarian Ron Paul supporters who vowed to reign havoc during the convention. Delegates should vote for the person who won their state primary, deceiving voters so that they can get to the convention and vote otherwise is dishonest.

What the Republican Party did in response to Ron Paul delegates is the equivalent of using a flamethrower to kill a gnat.

First off, you seem to have NO CLUE as to how the delegate process works. Bound delegates are required to vote for the candidate they are bound to in the FIRST ROUND ONLY. None of the Ron Paul delegates were going to break that rule.

Second, no one deceived anyone, in most states the state conventions assign delegates based on how they vote at the convention, not on the primary popular vote. That is part of the Republican rules. What you people don't seem to remember is that Ron Paul's delegate strategy was the SAME strategy used by your hero Ronald Reagan.

You fucks broke your own rules in order to silence dissenting voices in your own party. Your Kabuki show in Tampa was nothing more than the blatant admission that the People's voices don't matter at all, that the Establishment is going to choose the nominee regardless and that the Republican Party is just as corrupt and deceitful as the Democrats.
IOW, what we witnessed wasn't a nomination, it was a coronation.

I am really getting tired of this asinine assessment. What the republicans did was incorrect but it was NOT, in any sane definition, against the will of the people or an act of ignoring them. I cannot fathom how someone that actually supports Ron Paul can be so oblivious to what he was trying to do and I say this a Paul supporter. He was BLATANTLY attempting to steal the election through a system or rules that should not have existed in the first place. What the republicans did was ACKNOWLEDGE the will of the people and ensure that the candidate they wanted was elected.

FACT: Romney garnered FAR more votes than Paul. FACT: if the delegates were ties to the will of the people, Romney would be the clear pick. What Paul was banking on was that the rules actually ignored the real votes. I can also say, without a shadow of a doubt that Paul would not win the general. It would even be WORSE because of the method that he used to gain the nomination. They should not have played fast and loose with the rules to shut out Paul and I can’t stand the asinine duopoly that exists in this country BUT this is NOT an example of any of that.

What you fail to realize is that following the rules isn't breaking them. Those rules were there to ALLOW differing opinions, and they were changed midstream to stifle those opinions. Romney was still going to get the nomination WITHOUT the rule changes, the only thing that would have been different is that Ron Paul would have gotten a speaking spot, and in the name of 'party unity', THAT couldn't be allowed.

And you also fail to realize that Ron Paul's strategy was IDENTICAL to the strategy that propelled Reagan to the nomination.

 

[007]

There is only one true solution to this two party rule crap, and that's to do away with any and all parties period. You get elected on your merit and your beliefs, only.

 

[GuyPinestra]

There is only one true solution to this two party rule crap, and that's to do away with any and all parties period. You get elected on your merit and your beliefs, only.

I believe George Washington would second that motion...

 

[FA_Q2]

What the Republican Party did in response to Ron Paul delegates is the equivalent of using a flamethrower to kill a gnat.

First off, you seem to have NO CLUE as to how the delegate process works. Bound delegates are required to vote for the candidate they are bound to in the FIRST ROUND ONLY. None of the Ron Paul delegates were going to break that rule.

Second, no one deceived anyone, in most states the state conventions assign delegates based on how they vote at the convention, not on the primary popular vote. That is part of the Republican rules. What you people don't seem to remember is that Ron Paul's delegate strategy was the SAME strategy used by your hero Ronald Reagan.

You fucks broke your own rules in order to silence dissenting voices in your own party. Your Kabuki show in Tampa was nothing more than the blatant admission that the People's voices don't matter at all, that the Establishment is going to choose the nominee regardless and that the Republican Party is just as corrupt and deceitful as the Democrats.
IOW, what we witnessed wasn't a nomination, it was a coronation.

I am really getting tired of this asinine assessment. What the republicans did was incorrect but it was NOT, in any sane definition, against the will of the people or an act of ignoring them. I cannot fathom how someone that actually supports Ron Paul can be so oblivious to what he was trying to do and I say this a Paul supporter. He was BLATANTLY attempting to steal the election through a system or rules that should not have existed in the first place. What the republicans did was ACKNOWLEDGE the will of the people and ensure that the candidate they wanted was elected.

FACT: Romney garnered FAR more votes than Paul. FACT: if the delegates were ties to the will of the people, Romney would be the clear pick. What Paul was banking on was that the rules actually ignored the real votes. I can also say, without a shadow of a doubt that Paul would not win the general. It would even be WORSE because of the method that he used to gain the nomination. They should not have played fast and loose with the rules to shut out Paul and I can’t stand the asinine duopoly that exists in this country BUT this is NOT an example of any of that.

What you fail to realize is that following the rules isn't breaking them. Those rules were there to ALLOW differing opinions, and they were changed midstream to stifle those opinions. Romney was still going to get the nomination WITHOUT the rule changes, the only thing that would have been different is that Ron Paul would have gotten a speaking spot, and in the name of 'party unity', THAT couldn't be allowed.

And you also fail to realize that Ron Paul's strategy was IDENTICAL to the strategy that propelled Reagan to the nomination.

No, I don’t fail to realize that he had the same strategy as Ragan. What I fail to do is care because I don’t idolize Ragan as some superhero. I just don’t care. I agree that what they did was wrong and I agree that they should have not done it. What I do not accept is the claim that they somehow went against ‘the will of the people’ when that simply is not the case. Paul is barely a blip when it comes to actual votes.

I get that a lot of people wanted to see him get a speaking position at the convention. It is as unlikely to happen as getting a democrat there though because that is how far off they are from Paul’s ideals. The republican party is diametrically opposed to libertarianism. Sad but true. Of course the democrats are even worse so…

What are we to do?

 

[007]

There is only one true solution to this two party rule crap, and that's to do away with any and all parties period. You get elected on your merit and your beliefs, only.

I believe George Washington would second that motion...

I wish George Washington was still alive. I doubt he'd be very pleased with what this government has grown into.

I know I'm not.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I am really getting tired of this asinine assessment. What the republicans did was incorrect but it was NOT, in any sane definition, against the will of the people or an act of ignoring them. I cannot fathom how someone that actually supports Ron Paul can be so oblivious to what he was trying to do and I say this a Paul supporter. He was BLATANTLY attempting to steal the election through a system or rules that should not have existed in the first place. What the republicans did was ACKNOWLEDGE the will of the people and ensure that the candidate they wanted was elected.

FACT: Romney garnered FAR more votes than Paul. FACT: if the delegates were ties to the will of the people, Romney would be the clear pick. What Paul was banking on was that the rules actually ignored the real votes. I can also say, without a shadow of a doubt that Paul would not win the general. It would even be WORSE because of the method that he used to gain the nomination. They should not have played fast and loose with the rules to shut out Paul and I can’t stand the asinine duopoly that exists in this country BUT this is NOT an example of any of that.

What you fail to realize is that following the rules isn't breaking them. Those rules were there to ALLOW differing opinions, and they were changed midstream to stifle those opinions. Romney was still going to get the nomination WITHOUT the rule changes, the only thing that would have been different is that Ron Paul would have gotten a speaking spot, and in the name of 'party unity', THAT couldn't be allowed.

And you also fail to realize that Ron Paul's strategy was IDENTICAL to the strategy that propelled Reagan to the nomination.

No, I don’t fail to realize that he had the same strategy as Ragan. What I fail to do is care because I don’t idolize Ragan as some superhero. I just don’t care. I agree that what they did was wrong and I agree that they should have not done it. What I do not accept is the claim that they somehow went against ‘the will of the people’ when that simply is not the case. Paul is barely a blip when it comes to actual votes.

I get that a lot of people wanted to see him get a speaking position at the convention. It is as unlikely to happen as getting a democrat there though because that is how far off they are from Paul’s ideals. The republican party is diametrically opposed to libertarianism. Sad but true. Of course the democrats are even worse so…

What are we to do?

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, man. The ONLY reason you believe "Paul is barely a blip when it comes to actual votes." is because you buy the bullshit the media is selling you. You either don't remember or refuse to admit that major fraud happened in the primaries in multiple states, all of it documented and promptly IGNORED by our lame-stream media.

And then there was the fraud of the state conventions.

Iowa, Nevada, Maine, Alaska, South Carolina, Oklahoma, etc, etc, ad nauseum...

 

[HUGGY]

How many states require the voter to register as a Pube or a dem or an independant?

It used to be that all politics was REALLY local.. Those days are gone. Now a pac can come in from outside any local region and like the Walker recall outspend the local money 8, 10, 20 or 100 to one.

If we don't get rid of Citizens United there will be NO local decisions on ANY legislative seat that has any bearing nationaly. Big money is totally happy with two parties. They can control two parties. They can easily play one party against the other. They don't need a third party pissing in the punch bowl. The super pacs will not allow a third party to fuck up their scam.

The only power we have left is to elect a president and U S senators that will nominate and confirm New Supreme Court justices that will overturn CU.

NOTHING else matters from here on out. All other politics is just pissing in the wind.

Huggy, I agree but we have to change the fucks in power before we can do that.

Maybe the states can pass a call for a constitutional convention and reform it that way, but Boner and his whores will never go along.

I've been asking people this for ages: Can you name a dozen people you'd feel comfortable with...comfortable with tinkering with the US Constitution?

Like the man said.. I think it was the Seahawks Coach Chuck Knox in Seattle many years ago.. "You have to play the hand you are dealt".

We have several institutionalized problems inherant in America. We are for the most part intellectually lazy. That is not an accident. We have been purposefully been dumbed down and made fearfull. Those that have remained emboldened are almost all selfish citing some manifest destiny to take whatever they can for themselves and everyone else be damned. The major media outlets, over 90%, have been bought up by 5 corporate conglomorates representing the needs of an olygarchy of the super wealthy.. military industry, food supplies.. energy supplies.. health care/pharmacutical suppliers and media as in Disney and Clear Channel. The power of these forces seems unsurmountable. When you toss in bad actors like Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers with henchmen like Karl Rove and Dick Bennet working for them to openly lie repeatedly with no consequence and game the system constantly in every favor for ther puppet masters we certainly have our hands full effecting any meaningfull voice for the average American.

So how do we start to turn the poisonous tide of fascism and balance the needs of the people against these odds?

It depends how many are still left that have not given up and in to the lies. It depends how commited those few are to effect the changes necessary. It depends how smart those few act in effecting the reversal needed.

I believe the most important "bleeding" that needs stopped is to make changes in the panel that makes the rules. Nothing we do will matter if the final arbitrator kills it. The Supreme Court must be changed to allow the voice of the common man more than equal weight to the "free speach" of money.

The only way to change the Court in favor of PEOPLE vs CASH is to elect a president that favors people over money. So the most important aspects to November's election is the president and the senate.

If you are a sane person you should put every resource you can offer to re-electing Obama and adding more majority to the senate so the likelyhood of rebalancing the Court is possible. If the court gets more fascist then it is game over.

 

[GuyPinestra]

The contest is Fascism vs. Socialism, and regardless of who wins it means the death of Americanism.

Stock up on survival gear, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Obama is not socialist, Romney is not fascist, and GuyPinestra is barely sentient.

 

[HUGGY]

The contest is Fascism vs. Socialism, and regardless of who wins it means the death of Americanism.

Stock up on survival gear, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there...

I dissagree. The immediate choice for the LONG TERM is fascism vs ANY other possibility.

Too much socialism is of course not sustainable. It is however recoverable. Fascism is not. Not without a violent and bloody world revolution.

 

[GuyPinestra]

The contest is Fascism vs. Socialism, and regardless of who wins it means the death of Americanism.

Stock up on survival gear, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there...

I dissagree. The immediate choice for the LONG TERM is fascism vs ANY other possibility.

Too much socialism is of course not sustainable. It is however recoverable. Fascism is not. Not without a violent and bloody world revolution.

Like I said, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there. Like Book of Revelation ugly, IMHO. Chapter 17-18 ugly...

 

[HUGGY]

The contest is Fascism vs. Socialism, and regardless of who wins it means the death of Americanism.

Stock up on survival gear, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there...

I dissagree. The immediate choice for the LONG TERM is fascism vs ANY other possibility.

Too much socialism is of course not sustainable. It is however recoverable. Fascism is not. Not without a violent and bloody world revolution.

Like I said, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there. Like Book of Revelation ugly, IMHO. Chapter 17-18 ugly...

It could. All one has to do is look at "Arab Spring". At some point people just say "HELL NO"! And all the money in the world cannot prevent your dumb rich ass from going the way of Gudaffi.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I dissagree. The immediate choice for the LONG TERM is fascism vs ANY other possibility.

Too much socialism is of course not sustainable. It is however recoverable. Fascism is not. Not without a violent and bloody world revolution.

Like I said, it's fixing to get REAL ugly out there. Like Book of Revelation ugly, IMHO. Chapter 17-18 ugly...

It could. All one has to do is look at "Arab Spring". At some point people just say "HELL NO"! And all the money in the world cannot prevent your dumb rich ass from going the way of Gudaffi.

I beg your pardon? Please tell me you're kidding, Huggy, because that ignorant statement couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[Shelzin]

there you go again. 'they'

They are our elected representatives. Why do you hate America so much? The right and wrong of laws? What are you, some kind of American Taliban?

'They' have been co-opted by monied interests whose self interest is in direct opposition to the public interest.

Interesting, isn't it?

who votes? people. who has been co-opted by the money? the voters. who votes? who is stupid enough to allow false messages to dictate choices? people like you?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/242797-want-my-vote.html

I'd like something in place that verifies that votes are legit.