End the GOP-Dem Duopoly and Start a NEW Party; Else There is NO Choice 4 Change

[JimBowie1958]

Rules fight sparks drama at RNC – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

The days-long fight reached climax just hours after the Tuesday RNC session began, with supporters of the rules cheering their adoption and opponents booing against them. Moments before, some delegates even laid out angry – yet unsubstantiated – claims of meddling to keep some delegates away from a committee vote.


Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker, catch the latest updates from the GOP convention on CNN's 2012 Conventions Live Blog, and check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator to game out your own strategy for November.


At issue: two rules dubbed Rule 16 and Rule 12.

The first is a compromise of an earlier proposal, named Rule 15, that was vehemently opposed by many grassroots activists, including many Ron Paul supporters. It addresses delegate selection in future Republican presidential primaries – instituting stronger enforcement mechanisms to compel delegates to vote as they are bound by their states. In the original proposal, future presidential candidates would have had veto power over who could become a delegate.

The second rule concerns the RNC's ability to change its rules in between its conventions.

Both rules were adopted on the convention floor by a voice vote. Former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu, chairman of the Rules Committee and a top surrogate for Romney, presented the rules. House Speaker John Boehner held the audible floor vote to adopt them.

Though the voices "for" and "against" sounded about the same, Boehner declared: "The ayes have it."...

Calling it a "controversial rule change" that is "so very disappointing," Palin added: "It's a direct attack on grassroots activists by the GOP establishment, and it must be rejected."

Some delegates reacted angrily to the committee passage of Rule 16.

"This takes us away from state sovereignty," said Colorado delegate Florence Sebern. "It takes us away from local control in our states. And it moves us towards, as a Republican Party, central control and top-down decisions. That's what this is."

"Are we the Republican Party?" she added.

"My inbox blew up. I had over 8,000 Coloradans emailing and calling me saying, 'Stand firm on these two issues.'"

Her anger was backed up by others outside the convention. Many grassroots activists, including tea party sponsor FreedomWorks, urged opposition to the rules.

Julianne Thompson, a national Romney delegate and a Georgia State Coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots, wrote an open letter to RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and members of the Rules Committee.

"With your current attempt at this rules change, you are essentially striking the first blow that chips away at that freedom, and you disenfranchise the very people that turned the tide for the GOP in 2010 by returning power in the U.S. House of Representatives to Republicans," Thompson wrote....

Romney attorney Ben Ginsburg – a Washington D.C. delegate – spoke about the rule.

"It's a great compromise," Ginsburg said. "It brings the party together. Some of the grassroots activists told us they had concerns about [the original proposal.] They were valid concerns. We were able to work out a compromise."

When pressed about lingering grassroots opposition to it, Ginsberg said:

"The vote was 78-14. It had the overwhelming support of the committee."

"I'm sorry we can't please everybody."

Can't please everybody? They did not even try to give opponents an equal say in what wen on and even pulled shenanigans that amount to kidnapping to prevent opponents from organizing their opposition effectively.

The pure fascist side of Romney and the GOPe is plain and unavoidable.

Grassroots TPM and social conservatives must start a new party. Romney is dead and even if he wins he is no better than Obama, forget all the spin, partisan bullshit and nonsense. Obama is NOT a Kenyan Communist Manchurian candidate. That is nothing more than stupid bullshit lies to keep the stupid inside the GOP.

It is over, fold up the chairs, turn out the lights and start planning for a third party run by TPM and social conservatives in 2016.

Fuck these god damned Wall Street Republicans and their fucking lobbyists.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Michelle Malkin » RNC power grab: the aftermath

RNC Rules Fight – After Action Report:

First let me say thank-you, thank-you to conservatives everywhere who spoke up and started a national firestorm over this issue. If you’re like me, you know just how important it is to the future of the conservative movement.

With the Rules meeting itself, the first problem was attendance. Many, many of our supporters simply didn’t make it there do to buses that were up to an hour late to pick them up, (Morton Blackwell of Virginia had this problem). Many of them who didn’tmake it would have been additional signatures to our petition. But they started the meeting anyway, introducing a motion to ratify the final report of last Friday with the exception of the rule 16 compromise language taking out candidate veto power over delegates. This final motion passed.

As the meeting was going on, we were circulating our minority report petition. At one point, the male delegate from Massachusetts snatched it out of the hands ot the lady from North Dakota, refusing to give it back after repeated demands, resulting in a shoving match when the delegate from Colorado came to her defense.

After the final vote was over, according to party rules, we had one hour to file our minority reports, and, according to Rules, they have to be filed with either the committee chair, secretary, or convention secretary. Of course, after the meeting, they were no where to be found.

We continued to pick up signatures after the meeting, getting up to 24 our our Rule 12 minority report…but 4 shy of what would have been needed. Again, many people simply weren’t there. Others had their arms twisted. And others, as I learned, were simply “replaced” on the committee by their delegations.

On the Rule 16 issue, we had enough – IF we could have submitted something on paper – but again, no one there…or to be found. So our only option was to re-submit, via email, the pdf of what we submitted last Friday. We emailed this to Sununu and the convention secretary. The problem however would have been that it had 29 signatures, but since Friday, 2 members asked to have their names removed, so it would have been a no-go.

After the vote on the convention floor, it occurred to me that we probably should have just told everyone to “vote no” on the rules entirely…and yell “division” to force a head count…if the rules failed, a new motion substituting the old rules may have been in order…but hindsight is 20-20.

The upside is that as a result of shining a light on what was going on and alerting everyone to it, we were able to force a compromise to get the worst part of the proposed changes removed, (the change that would let campaigns have veto power over delegates).

The downside is that all of the rest of the garbage went through, (i.e. letting the RNC change the rules between conventions, removing a March proportionality rule that will result in a massive front-loaded national primary in 4 or 8 years, forcing some caucus/convention states to bind delegates against their own rules and state law, etc..).

Worst yet, due to the RNC’s new power to change the rules, the [genie] is out of the bottle and, who knows, a proposal for candidates to have delegate veto power may yet be in our future.

This whole debacle verifies what I call “Drew McKissick’s unified theory of political power” – Those who get involved and stay involved have the power. Even idiots eventually get promoted up the chain to their level of incompotence if for no other reason that there is so much apathy that “somebody” has to fill xyz position and “hey, this guy always shows up, give it to him”. And there you go.

The takeaway for conservatives is this: GET INVOLVED – AND STAY INVOLVED. Yes, those boring old precinct meetings matter. Going to county party meetings matters. Running for delegate matters. Who your delegates pick for Platform and Rules Committees REALLY MATTERS. Show up…support good people who can’t be bullied.

Right now we have a campaign – or many campaigns – to win this November. And conservatives should do everything they can to win. But after Election Day remember, the candidates represent the party, not the other way around.

Keep the heat on, and keep them honest. This shook people up. Keep them that way.

Thanks again for all of the support. You have no idea how much it meant.

Sincerely,
Drew McKissick
Delegate, SC

These fascist Romney bastards are total sellout slimeballs and not any different from the goons in the Democratic party.

It is time to start a new party. Period. Fuck the GOP; itis dead.

 

[kyzr]

The answer is divided government. The proof is the fiscal cliff, action w/o anyone's fingerprints. No one will donate to a 3rd party. The closest thing I've seen is the TEA Party. So join the TEA Party, or vote Libertarian.

 

[Katzndogz]

There is nothing stopping the formation of a new political party. Nothing but lack of interest.

 

[kyzr]

There is nothing stopping the formation of a new political party. Nothing but lack of interest.

Call that a significant electorate. Fringe groups have zero power.

 

[Google]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory. The RNC took these steps in response to looney tune libertarian Ron Paul supporters who vowed to reign havoc during the convention. Delegates should vote for the person who won their state primary, deceiving voters so that they can get to the convention and vote otherwise is dishonest.

 

[Google]

The Tea Party has been effective because they have rejected the urge and calls to form a third party, that would relegate themselves to relevancy. Instead, the Tea Party has embraced the Republican party and is changing its constituency. What needs to happen now is get these Tea Party representatives in Congress into leadership positions.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory. The RNC took these steps in response to looney tune libertarian Ron Paul supporters who vowed to reign havoc during the convention. Delegates should vote for the person who won their state primary, deceiving voters so that they can get to the convention and vote otherwise is dishonest.

What the Republican Party did in response to Ron Paul delegates is the equivalent of using a flamethrower to kill a gnat.

First off, you seem to have NO CLUE as to how the delegate process works. Bound delegates are required to vote for the candidate they are bound to in the FIRST ROUND ONLY. None of the Ron Paul delegates were going to break that rule.

Second, no one deceived anyone, in most states the state conventions assign delegates based on how they vote at the convention, not on the primary popular vote. That is part of the Republican rules. What you people don't seem to remember is that Ron Paul's delegate strategy was the SAME strategy used by your hero Ronald Reagan.

You fucks broke your own rules in order to silence dissenting voices in your own party. Your Kabuki show in Tampa was nothing more than the blatant admission that the People's voices don't matter at all, that the Establishment is going to choose the nominee regardless and that the Republican Party is just as corrupt and deceitful as the Democrats.

IOW, what we witnessed wasn't a nomination, it was a coronation.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory. The RNC took these steps in response to looney tune libertarian Ron Paul supporters who vowed to reign havoc during the convention. Delegates should vote for the person who won their state primary, deceiving voters so that they can get to the convention and vote otherwise is dishonest.

Of course people should vote for who they are pledged to vote for, but the rule 12 change is completely unnecesary and give all power to the top GOPe controlled national power structure. The states and local party people are locked out of any influence unless they are supporting what the national level DC-Wall Street elite tell them to do.

The rule 16 change was also far more than what was needed to deflect a Paulista take over. This power for candidates to censor who is on the slate for them is top-down dictation to the states as to who they will send and completely unneeded.

But look at how the GOP managed this thing with fraud, kidnapping and violence at the convention.

You think you can TRUST people like that? Hell, GOP members have been calling Obama a communist, but he hasnt done anything this violent and contemptuous toward the Tea Party movement that I have seen.

There is NO DIFFERENCE between Obama and Romney. NONE. They are both contemptuous of the American people and the will of the people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory. The RNC took these steps in response to looney tune libertarian Ron Paul supporters who vowed to reign havoc during the convention. Delegates should vote for the person who won their state primary, deceiving voters so that they can get to the convention and vote otherwise is dishonest.

What the Republican Party did in response to Ron Paul delegates is the equivalent of using a flamethrower to kill a gnat.

First off, you seem to have NO CLUE as to how the delegate process works. Bound delegates are required to vote for the candidate they are bound to in the FIRST ROUND ONLY. None of the Ron Paul delegates were going to break that rule.

Second, no one deceived anyone, in most states the state conventions assign delegates based on how they vote at the convention, not on the primary popular vote. That is part of the Republican rules. What you people don't seem to remember is that Ron Paul's delegate strategy was the SAME strategy used by your hero Ronald Reagan.

You fucks broke your own rules in order to silence dissenting voices in your own party. Your Kabuki show in Tampa was nothing more than the blatant admission that the People's voices don't matter at all, that the Establishment is going to choose the nominee regardless and that the Republican Party is just as corrupt and deceitful as the Democrats.

IOW, what we witnessed wasn't a nomination, it was a coronation.

This rule change was targeted at the TPM and keeping the popular will out of GOP decisions.

The Dems have long been controled by East Coast Unions and Chicago mob, but now the GOP is taken over and controled by fascists and centralized state thralls.

Whatevere the difference is between the Obamanites and the Romneybots is miniscule and not worth playing ball with the GOPe lying bastards any more.

It is time for a new party and four years of a Commie Obama instead of a fascist Romney is well worth the cost of replacing the GOP with a geniunely populist party that respects the American people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Oh, yes let's guarantee an Obama victory.

I'll take four more years of Obama and set up a genuinely populist party rather than EIGHT more years of a fascist dictatoriship under the GOP Wall Street whores.

And please stop blaming the Paulistas for everything, shit, you guys are whining about them like the Dems whine about Bush.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is nothing stopping the formation of a new political party. Nothing but lack of interest.

Are you that niave?

 

[Shelzin]

There is nothing stopping the formation of a new political party. Nothing but lack of interest.

No... Corporations just don't want to have to buy off more than two parties.

 

[HUGGY]

Rules fight sparks drama at RNC – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

The days-long fight reached climax just hours after the Tuesday RNC session began, with supporters of the rules cheering their adoption and opponents booing against them. Moments before, some delegates even laid out angry – yet unsubstantiated – claims of meddling to keep some delegates away from a committee vote.


Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker, catch the latest updates from the GOP convention on CNN's 2012 Conventions Live Blog, and check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator to game out your own strategy for November.


At issue: two rules dubbed Rule 16 and Rule 12.

The first is a compromise of an earlier proposal, named Rule 15, that was vehemently opposed by many grassroots activists, including many Ron Paul supporters. It addresses delegate selection in future Republican presidential primaries – instituting stronger enforcement mechanisms to compel delegates to vote as they are bound by their states. In the original proposal, future presidential candidates would have had veto power over who could become a delegate.

The second rule concerns the RNC's ability to change its rules in between its conventions.

Both rules were adopted on the convention floor by a voice vote. Former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu, chairman of the Rules Committee and a top surrogate for Romney, presented the rules. House Speaker John Boehner held the audible floor vote to adopt them.

Though the voices "for" and "against" sounded about the same, Boehner declared: "The ayes have it."...

Calling it a "controversial rule change" that is "so very disappointing," Palin added: "It's a direct attack on grassroots activists by the GOP establishment, and it must be rejected."

Some delegates reacted angrily to the committee passage of Rule 16.

"This takes us away from state sovereignty," said Colorado delegate Florence Sebern. "It takes us away from local control in our states. And it moves us towards, as a Republican Party, central control and top-down decisions. That's what this is."

"Are we the Republican Party?" she added.

"My inbox blew up. I had over 8,000 Coloradans emailing and calling me saying, 'Stand firm on these two issues.'"

Her anger was backed up by others outside the convention. Many grassroots activists, including tea party sponsor FreedomWorks, urged opposition to the rules.

Julianne Thompson, a national Romney delegate and a Georgia State Coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots, wrote an open letter to RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and members of the Rules Committee.

"With your current attempt at this rules change, you are essentially striking the first blow that chips away at that freedom, and you disenfranchise the very people that turned the tide for the GOP in 2010 by returning power in the U.S. House of Representatives to Republicans," Thompson wrote....

Romney attorney Ben Ginsburg – a Washington D.C. delegate – spoke about the rule.

"It's a great compromise," Ginsburg said. "It brings the party together. Some of the grassroots activists told us they had concerns about [the original proposal.] They were valid concerns. We were able to work out a compromise."

When pressed about lingering grassroots opposition to it, Ginsberg said:

"The vote was 78-14. It had the overwhelming support of the committee."

"I'm sorry we can't please everybody."

Can't please everybody? They did not even try to give opponents an equal say in what wen on and even pulled shenanigans that amount to kidnapping to prevent opponents from organizing their opposition effectively.

The pure fascist side of Romney and the GOPe is plain and unavoidable.

Grassroots TPM and social conservatives must start a new party. Romney is dead and even if he wins he is no better than Obama, forget all the spin, partisan bullshit and nonsense. Obama is NOT a Kenyan Communist Manchurian candidate. That is nothing more than stupid bullshit lies to keep the stupid inside the GOP.

It is over, fold up the chairs, turn out the lights and start planning for a third party run by TPM and social conservatives in 2016.

Fuck these god damned Wall Street Republicans and their fucking lobbyists.

Lobbyists? That is so 2007. Before there EVER will be a third party there needs to be changes in the Supreme Court. I wish it was just lobbyists any more. Citizens United. That's the whole ball game now. If you are not prepared to vote for someone that will install Supreme Court justices that will overturn CU you are wasting your breath and time.

If Romney gets elected CU will never get thrown out. You may as well just give up on politics and admit you are willing to be a fascist. That is the REAL truth. The only votes that matter will be bought and paid for by the super rich. Get used to it. If you need vasoline you better bring it yourself. The government won't provide it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The answer is divided government. The proof is the fiscal cliff, action w/o anyone's fingerprints. No one will donate to a 3rd party. The closest thing I've seen is the TEA Party. So join the TEA Party, or vote Libertarian.

Back in 2008 when Bob Barr started hitting around 10% in some state polls, the GOP and Dems who now control and own the Presidential debates, changed the threshold for participating in those debates from 10% polling to 15% polling.

Plenty of social conservatives, Christian libertarians and TPM will contribute to a new third party based on those values.

 

[Meister]

The left would love two viable conservative parties.

 

[HUGGY]

The answer is divided government. The proof is the fiscal cliff, action w/o anyone's fingerprints. No one will donate to a 3rd party. The closest thing I've seen is the TEA Party. So join the TEA Party, or vote Libertarian.

Back in 2008 when Bob Barr started hitting around 10% in some state polls, the GOP and Dems who now control and own the Presidential debates, changed the threshold for participating in those debates from 10% polling to 15% polling.

Plenty of social conservatives, Christian libertarians and TPM will contribute to a new third party based on those values.

You are making the same cow noises as those that are the top of the ramp looking out longingly at freedom lost and about to be shot in the head, bled, skinned and butchered.

The time to act on your freedom is not at the door of the slaughterhouse.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Even with the curtain being pulled back on the Republican Party this week, I still think Romney is going to win in November. Won't make a fucking bit of difference, he works for Goldman-Sachs just like Obama.

Americans are fucked regardless...

 

[Shelzin]

The left would love two viable conservative parties.

Yes it would. The right should have made some concessions and made sure they could still contend.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Rules fight sparks drama at RNC – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

The days-long fight reached climax just hours after the Tuesday RNC session began, with supporters of the rules cheering their adoption and opponents booing against them. Moments before, some delegates even laid out angry – yet unsubstantiated – claims of meddling to keep some delegates away from a committee vote.


Follow the Ticker on Twitter: @PoliticalTicker, catch the latest updates from the GOP convention on CNN's 2012 Conventions Live Blog, and check out the CNN Electoral Map and Calculator to game out your own strategy for November.


At issue: two rules dubbed Rule 16 and Rule 12.

The first is a compromise of an earlier proposal, named Rule 15, that was vehemently opposed by many grassroots activists, including many Ron Paul supporters. It addresses delegate selection in future Republican presidential primaries – instituting stronger enforcement mechanisms to compel delegates to vote as they are bound by their states. In the original proposal, future presidential candidates would have had veto power over who could become a delegate.

The second rule concerns the RNC's ability to change its rules in between its conventions.

Both rules were adopted on the convention floor by a voice vote. Former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu, chairman of the Rules Committee and a top surrogate for Romney, presented the rules. House Speaker John Boehner held the audible floor vote to adopt them.

Though the voices "for" and "against" sounded about the same, Boehner declared: "The ayes have it."...

Calling it a "controversial rule change" that is "so very disappointing," Palin added: "It's a direct attack on grassroots activists by the GOP establishment, and it must be rejected."

Some delegates reacted angrily to the committee passage of Rule 16.

"This takes us away from state sovereignty," said Colorado delegate Florence Sebern. "It takes us away from local control in our states. And it moves us towards, as a Republican Party, central control and top-down decisions. That's what this is."

"Are we the Republican Party?" she added.

"My inbox blew up. I had over 8,000 Coloradans emailing and calling me saying, 'Stand firm on these two issues.'"

Her anger was backed up by others outside the convention. Many grassroots activists, including tea party sponsor FreedomWorks, urged opposition to the rules.

Julianne Thompson, a national Romney delegate and a Georgia State Coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots, wrote an open letter to RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and members of the Rules Committee.

"With your current attempt at this rules change, you are essentially striking the first blow that chips away at that freedom, and you disenfranchise the very people that turned the tide for the GOP in 2010 by returning power in the U.S. House of Representatives to Republicans," Thompson wrote....

Romney attorney Ben Ginsburg – a Washington D.C. delegate – spoke about the rule.

"It's a great compromise," Ginsburg said. "It brings the party together. Some of the grassroots activists told us they had concerns about [the original proposal.] They were valid concerns. We were able to work out a compromise."

When pressed about lingering grassroots opposition to it, Ginsberg said:

"The vote was 78-14. It had the overwhelming support of the committee."

"I'm sorry we can't please everybody."

Can't please everybody? They did not even try to give opponents an equal say in what wen on and even pulled shenanigans that amount to kidnapping to prevent opponents from organizing their opposition effectively.

The pure fascist side of Romney and the GOPe is plain and unavoidable.

Grassroots TPM and social conservatives must start a new party. Romney is dead and even if he wins he is no better than Obama, forget all the spin, partisan bullshit and nonsense. Obama is NOT a Kenyan Communist Manchurian candidate. That is nothing more than stupid bullshit lies to keep the stupid inside the GOP.

It is over, fold up the chairs, turn out the lights and start planning for a third party run by TPM and social conservatives in 2016.

Fuck these god damned Wall Street Republicans and their fucking lobbyists.

There are dozens of third parties. Go start another, or join one and help build it. Just stop whining about it.