Zone1 Duopoly: An American Problem

Elaborate for me please. I love reading your input.
Thank you for the compliment!
Other countries are diverse. Other countries make decisions about healthcare, procreation, etc. But they donā€™t see the duopoly that weā€™re working with.
Ours is exceptional - and I mean that in the sense of actual American Exceptionalism, not the populist version. We've always been a melting pot of people from all over the world seeking freedom and opportunity. It's always been an uneasy coalition of puritans and refugees. And we all have different ideas of what the "good life" looks like. If any one group decides they know better, even if they can manage a majority vote in their favor, it becomes a problem. It's my contention that such a diverse mix works best with minimal government. That means we might not get socialized medicine or free college, but it also means we're not mired in political battles over what socialized medicine and free college should look like.

Of course that's not the only reason for the divide. Much of it is artificial. Baked into the election system we use, and amplified by media. It creates, and rewards, partisan extremism over consensus leadership. At best we get "compromise" - horse trading where Ds let Rs do crappy stuff that half the country hates, in exchange for Ds getting to do their crappy stuff that the other half of the country hates. Each side leaves, planning to undo what the other pushed through.

Consensus is different. It's more about what we don't do. In particular, we don't do crappy stuff that half the country hates. Consensus isn't majority rule either. Consensus means we're not going to do something that a significant minority finds intolerable. We're not going to walk away from every session of Congress or every election vowing revenge. Which is the way we roll now.
 
Thank you for the compliment!

Ours is exceptional - and I mean that in the sense of actual American Exceptionalism, not the populist version. We've always been a melting pot of people from all over the world seeking freedom and opportunity. It's always been an uneasy coalition of puritans and refugees. And we all have different ideas of what the "good life" looks like. If any one group decides they know better, even if they can manage a majority vote in their favor, it becomes a problem. It's my contention that such a diverse mix works best with minimal government. That means we might not get socialized medicine or free college, but it also means we're not mired in political battles over what socialized medicine and free college should look like.

Of course that's not the only reason for the divide. Much of it is artificial. Baked into the election system we use, and amplified by media. It creates, and rewards, partisan extremism over consensus leadership. At best we get "compromise" - horse trading where Ds let Rs do crappy stuff that half the country hates, in exchange for Ds getting to do their crappy stuff that the other half of the country hates. Each side leaves, planning to undo what the other pushed through.

Consensus is different. It's more about what we don't do. In particular, we don't do crappy stuff that half the country hates. Consensus isn't majority rule either. Consensus means we're not going to do something that a significant minority finds intolerable. We're not going to walk away from every session of Congress or every election vowing revenge. Which is the way we roll now.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. Youā€™ve given me a few points to think about. My reply is going to continue to focus on why we canā€™t seem to get over this hurdle while other countries can.

Regarding the melting pot comment, this made a lot of sense to me. I can see why such a diverse country should focus on smaller government. However, I also looked through the list of countries that I provided in the OP and found that both Germany and Switzerland have a higher percentage of foreign-born immigrants. Immigration by Country 2022

I canā€™t help thinking that our diversity is simply an excuse for our inability to get past this duopoly because other countries can do it. But I can also see that ā€œdiversityā€ is subjective and hard to measure, and it can certainly be more than just the percentage of immigrants. I donā€™t think I can objectively confirm or reject this claim, but it is an interesting point.

I completely agree that partisan extremism is rewarded in our system. I agree that the media is just amplifying this. How did it get to this point? Did we make a wrong turn somewhere? Maybe itā€™s just a perfect storm of several factors that lead to this and now weā€™re stuck in an endless loop that we canā€™t get out of.
 
C_Clayton_Jones brought up a point that I found interesting regarding us being an indirect democracy.

As I was researching this topic, I came across this little nugget of information on Switzerland.

ā€œThe 1848 and 1999 Swiss Constitutions define a system of direct democracy. The instruments of this system at the federal level, known as popular rights include the right to submit a federal initiative and a referendum, both of which may overturn parliamentary decisions.

By calling a federal referendum, a group of citizens may challenge a law passed by parliament by gathering 50,000 signatures against the law within 100 days. If so, a national vote is scheduled where voters decide by a simple majority whether to accept or reject the law. Any eight cantons can also call a constitutional referendum on federal law.ā€


Thatā€™s pretty cool.
However cool, it would be un-Constitutional in the United States.

To implement any changes advocated, a constitutional convention would be required.

In essence, wipe the constitutional slate clean and start over.

We should have a direct democracy ā€“ including voter initiated National referenda to circumvent interference by political parties.

To address concerns about the ā€˜tyranny of the majority,ā€™ the rights and protected liberties of the people would be enumerated and codified in the new constitution ā€“ the courts would no longer interpret the constitution, they would instead enforce it.

And the new constitution would be amended via National referenda.

We know this would work because it works in Florida (of all places) where the stateā€™s constitution is amended via referenda.

Measures such as medical marijuana, the restoration of voting rights for felons, and a minimum wage increase were all enacted via referenda circumventing the Republican-controlled legislature hostile to such measures.
 
Howard Schultz.

He was the former CEO of Starbucks who threw his hat in the ring for President of the United States. The right embraced him and the left attacked him relentlessly. Why? Because he was a likeable candidate outside of the duopoly. The right embraced him because he would certainly take votes away from the Democrats. The left hated him because he would certainly take votes away from the Democrats.

After months of criticism from the left, he withdrew from the race.

www.nbcnews.com
Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz decides against running for president
"An independent campaign for the White House is not how I can best serve our country at this time,ā€ Schultz said in statement.
www.nbcnews.com
www.nbcnews.com

Maybe Howard Schultz would have been a great candidate. Maybe not. But thereā€™s something deeply concerning to me with how he was effectively pushed out of the running by the very people who may have voted for him.

The way our system is set up, a likeable candidate is attacked because they like him. Think about that for a moment. Iā€™m going to say it again. A likeable candidate is attacked and chased out of the race because they like him. This is why mediocrity reigns. Imagine a system where we don't chase off some of the best talent we have because they're too good.

How did we get to this point? Why is it that we canā€™t seem to fix this issue? Other countries have figured it out, why canā€™t we?
 
Howard Schultz.

He was the former CEO of Starbucks who threw his hat in the ring for President of the United States. The right embraced him and the left attacked him relentlessly. Why? Because he was a likeable candidate outside of the duopoly. The right embraced him because he would certainly take votes away from the Democrats. The left hated him because he would certainly take votes away from the Democrats.

After months of criticism from the left, he withdrew from the race.

www.nbcnews.com
Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz decides against running for president
"An independent campaign for the White House is not how I can best serve our country at this time,ā€ Schultz said in statement.
www.nbcnews.com
www.nbcnews.com

Maybe Howard Schultz would have been a great candidate. Maybe not. But thereā€™s something deeply concerning to me with how he was effectively pushed out of the running by the very people who may have voted for him.

The way our system is set up, a likeable candidate is attacked because they like him. Think about that for a moment. Iā€™m going to say it again. A likeable candidate is attacked and chased out of the race because they like him. This is why mediocrity reigns. Imagine a system where we don't chase off some of the best talent we have because they're too good.

How did we get to this point? Why is it that we canā€™t seem to fix this issue? Other countries have figured it out, why canā€™t we?
RCV. Or voters find their spines and stop falling for it.
 
LAZY & SMALL MINDED. US To spoiled for to long. expectations short stopped by unrealistic political LIES non stop petty propaganda.
 
I agree with that rule.

The problem is that the only people who have a snowballs chance in hell of winning are in exactly two parties. The duopoly.

Other countries donā€™t have this same problem.
Not a problem with me. Personally I vote for the most conservative candidate I can.

The people thinking there is "common ground" are naive. I want nothing from the far left. They have no solutions. I am a constitutionalist. Those advocating federal government involvement in state and local matters are the enemy.

I will vote for the person who's values most colsely resemble mine.

I also don't think the European system is at all superior to ours
 
Not a problem with me. Personally I vote for the most conservative candidate I can.

The people thinking there is "common ground" are naive. I want nothing from the far left. They have no solutions. I am a constitutionalist. Those advocating federal government involvement in state and local matters are the enemy.

I will vote for the person who's values most colsely resemble mine.

I also don't think the European system is at all superior to ours
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In my opinion, many of the issues in American politics are rooted in the duopoly. We have a tribal mentality of us vs them and it puts us at odds with each other constantly. We hate each other. We would rather vote for someone we don't like than to let the other party take over. It's a race to the bottom and we're all determined to win.

I know we have some 3rd party voters here who adamantly refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils. While I understand your values, I just don't see a 3rd party becoming a realistic option with the current system that we have in place. In my opinion, there needs to be a change to the system in order to break up the duopoly. I've spoken greatly about ranked-choice voting and why I think it's so beneficial here: CDZ - Ranked Voting

But I've gone through that already. Let's just look around the world and examine what other countries are doing. Many countries have branches of government similar to us but don't deal with the same bipartisan crap that we do. The more I look at this, the more it looks like an American problem.

Switzerland. Switzerland is a republic. Their legislative branch consists of two houses. Those houses look like this. The different colors represent different political parties.

View attachment 709462

Mexico. Mexico is a presidential republic. Here is what the houses in their legislature look like.

View attachment 709463

Brazil. Brazil is another presidential republic. Here is what the houses in their legislature look like.

View attachment 709464
Japan. Japan is a constitutional monarchy. The emperor has a limited ceremonial role. The legislative branch looks like this.

View attachment 709465

Germany. Germany is a representative democratic republic. Their legislative branch looks like this.

View attachment 709468

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. Now look at the United States of America.

View attachment 709470

Why? Why is the duopoly so prevalent in our politics but not in other countries? What are they doing differently? Why can't we learn from them?
I hate to say this, but our government is a reflection of our society; if we want a better government, we need to be a better society. Which means getting past the tribalism and seeking a common ground with the other side.
 
Not a problem with me. Personally I vote for the most conservative candidate I can.

The people thinking there is "common ground" are naive. I want nothing from the far left. They have no solutions. I am a constitutionalist. Those advocating federal government involvement in state and local matters are the enemy.

I will vote for the person who's values most colsely resemble mine.

I also don't think the European system is at all superior to ours
Is it possible that there are more conservative candidates than the people that the Republican party pushes out?

Just curious.
 
I hate to say this, but our government is a reflection of our society; if we want a better government, we need to be a better society. Which means getting past the tribalism and seeking a common ground with the other side.
Very true.
 
This time, one issue voter. All information shows GOP hurting Social Security. Vote against any one who has even hinted against harming S S. Increase coming for SS now.
 
This time, one issue voter. All information shows GOP hurting Social Security. Vote against any one who has even hinted against harming S S. Increase coming for SS now.
I don't think they will want to touch social security or Medicare. That will be the most unpopular mistake ever made.
 

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