Zone1 Duopoly: An American Problem

[marvin martian]

This period has exposed something about us that most of us didn't realize existed. Or we didn't WANT to realize it.

What does it say about a society when about a third of its populace can literally separate itself from reality and fall head over heels for the most obvious con man it has ever seen?

I don't really understand politics, and this has never been about politics for me. This is about US, and what it says about us as a society.

You voted for a guy who promised his followers he would "end fossil fuels" and cure cancer. You don't realize you got conned? You're an idiot.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Because you lack the courage to do such a thing.

I lack courage because I want to stay close to my family? LoL

Family is important to me. I like being with them. It's not a lack of courage that's keeping me close to them, it's because it's something that I value.

 

[XponentialChaos]

The problem with your view is it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy....nobody will vote for a 3rd party candidate because they cannot win, they cannot win because nobody will vote for them.

Unfortunately, I think that's accurate and I don't think that's going to change.

You're a 3rd party voter, right? I get where you guys are coming from. I just don't see your votes working, and even as much as I would love to see some 3rd parties take off, I can't throw my vote away. I know what you guys think of this - that I'm just feeding into the system that I'm criticizing. I get it. My issue is that I'm so incredibly pessimistic about seeing a 3rd party breaking through that I can't jump on board.

In my opinion, and we're probably going to disagree about this, the only way a 3rd party becomes a realistic option is with some kind of tweak in the system because it's not going to happen on our own. We're too far gone. People aren't going to snap out of it, decide they're tired of the duopoly, and vote 3rd party. I just don't see it. But if the system is tweaked, for instance allowing ranked choice voting, that would be an incredible change and could produce actual results over time.

And that ultimately gets to my point. Is there something inherently flawed that we're doing here that other countries have figured out? Why is it that this is an American problem?

 

[Unkotare]

I lack courage because I want to stay close to my family? LoL

Family is important to me. I like being with them. ...

Take them with you.

 

[DudleySmith]

I agree with that rule.

The problem is that the only people who have a snowballs chance in hell of winning are in exactly two parties. The duopoly.

Other countries don’t have this same problem.

Actually both parties' establishments agree that you uppity proles are worthless and your votes need to be neutralized, which is why Democrats aren't really having any problems bribing enough Republicans to get bills passed. Democrats passed their 'super delegate rule', and the GOP will likely follow that tactic. That's why so many of the GOP shills here are wetting themselves and opposing reform while out of theo other sides of their mouths they're sniveling over stolen elections. Their base is too stupid to notice, same as the Democrats' base is.

 

[dblack]

Unfortunately, I think that's accurate and I don't think that's going to change.

You're a 3rd party voter, right? I get where you guys are coming from. I just don't see your votes working, and even as much as I would love to see some 3rd parties take off, I can't throw my vote away.

I can't throw my vote away either. That's WHY I don't vote for Ds or Rs.

I know what you guys think of this - that I'm just feeding into the system that I'm criticizing. I get it. My issue is that I'm so incredibly pessimistic about seeing a 3rd party breaking through that I can't jump on board.

It's not about electing a third party. It's about expressing - and formally recording - my preferences. I don't really care if the Libertarian Party succeeds in becoming a major player. But the more people who vote for libertarian candidates, the more prominent libertarian values will be in the political landscape. If that causes one, or both, of the major parties to put forward a more libertarian platform, I call it a win. I'd much rather have that kind of impact, small as it may be, than to record a vote for "lesser". In my view, what that expresses is "Yes, I like the status quo. I want more."

And that ultimately gets to my point. Is there something inherently flawed that we're doing here that other countries have figured out? Why is it that this is an American problem?

It's because we're so diverse as a nation. Majority rule doesn't work well when there's no consensus. Especially as government becomes more and more powerful. When the results of an election will make important decisions about your job, your health care, your child's education, your procreation - you can't simply consent to the will of the majority (and you shouldn't have to).

And that's what we're seeing. Democrats and Republicans are each unwilling to let the other side take the reins. So they go into denial mode and cling to conspiracy theories and "smoking guns" that will reverse the results of the election.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Take them with you.

I have a large family and they’re not all going to want to drop everything and go to a foreign country for no reason.

Here’s a thought - how about you stop worrying about where I choose to live. You’re just embarrassing yourself now.

Are you all done making an ass out of yourself? Probably not.

 

[Unkotare]

... the more people who vote for libertarian candidates, ...

...the more democrats win elections. If that's what you really want...

 

[Unkotare]

I have a large family and they’re not all going to want to drop everything and go to a foreign country for no reason.

....

"no reason" indeed

 

[dblack]

...the more democrats win elections. If that's what you really want...

This tired shit? Again? You realize Democrats say the same shit - make the same stupid argument. They blamed us for Trump getting elected in the first place. I guess it's just the (extremely arrogant) presumption, by both parties, that they own my vote, and that I'm depriving them if I don't give it them.

No.

 

[XponentialChaos]

It's because we're so diverse as a nation. Majority rule doesn't work well when there's no consensus. Especially as government becomes more and more powerful. When the results of an election will make important decisions about your job, your health care, your child's education, your procreation - you can't simply consent to the will of the majority (and you shouldn't have to).

Elaborate for me please. I love reading your input.

Other countries are diverse. Other countries make decisions about healthcare, procreation, etc. But they don’t see the duopoly that we’re working with.

 

[XponentialChaos]

"no reason" indeed

No reason that’s important to them.

What a stupid argument you’re making. If you had any common sense, you would re-evaluate your life decisions and apologize for this retarded argument you’re making.

Holy shit.

 

[Unkotare]

This tired shit? Again? You realize Democrats say the same shit - make the same stupid argument. They blamed us for Trump getting elected in the first place. I guess it's just the (extremely arrogant) presumption, by both parties, that they own my vote, and that I'm depriving them if I don't give it them.

No.

*cough* Ross Perot *cough*

 

[Unkotare]

No reason that’s important to them.

.....

Or anyone else.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Other countries are diverse.....

Not like us.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Or anyone else.

Important, just not important enough to move to a new country over.

Stupid argument.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Not like us.

Not like us, but still diverse.

 

[Unkotare]

Important, just not important enough to move to a new country over.

...

And now we're back to lacking the courage of one's convictions.

 

[XponentialChaos]

And now we're back to lacking the courage of one's convictions.

Wanting to stay close to my family isn’t a lack of courage, you moron. It’s prioritizing what‘s important in my life.

How stupid are you? Holy shit.

 

[Unkotare]

Wanting to stay close to my family isn’t a lack of courage,...

I'm not surprised you don't know what courage is.