Dream act

[Angelhair]

They are not being punished for Gods sakes. They are still enjoying almost all the bennies of US citizens and then some. Since when is not being given something extra, punishment? Stop with the melodrama.

If you were brought to this country by your parents, raised and educated as an American and lived with the fear that at any time you could be deported losing your friends, family and the only life you have ever known, you would consider this punishment. Without documentation, you can't serve in the military, vote, or draw social security. If you leave the country, you want be able legally reenter. If you can make it pass the hurdles that undocumented aliens face going to college, you will find most professional jobs require documentation which you don't have.


It just plain wrong that these kids have to suffer for the actions of their parents.

Actually what is plain wrong is that we did not stop all these illegals from entering this country with kids in tow. We pass this Dream Act and many, many more will try to enter and again with kids in tow. It will be just as it was when the amnesty of 1986 passed. Millions more entered expecting to be here long enough to receive another amnesty - this might be the beginning of another one. If it is, then in a few years we will be talking about what to do not with 12/20 milliion but with double that number.

 

[Flopper]

Educate them, then deport them along with their parents, and see how they can better the life of those who were left behind in their country of birth. Educating them is a small price to pay to get them out of here and it will serve some good purpose in their country. Problem solved.

I think the point you miss is most of these kids are as American as any of other kids. Mexico is a foreign country and not their home. Sending them back to Mexico is in no ones best interest. Giving them the opportunity to make something of their lives and serve the country that is their home make sense for everyone.

Many feel that a political statement must be made and if these kids suffer, then it's for greater good. That theme has tragically repeated itself self over and over throughout history.

 

[Intense]

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.6497 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Open door to amnesty. Reid is trying hard to please his base of Illegals.

He want's votes any way they come.

 

[Flopper]

They are not being punished for Gods sakes. They are still enjoying almost all the bennies of US citizens and then some. Since when is not being given something extra, punishment? Stop with the melodrama.

If you were brought to this country by your parents, raised and educated as an American and lived with the fear that at any time you could be deported losing your friends, family and the only life you have ever known, you would consider this punishment. Without documentation, you can't serve in the military, vote, or draw social security. If you leave the country, you want be able legally reenter. If you can make it pass the hurdles that undocumented aliens face going to college, you will find most professional jobs require documentation which you don't have.


It just plain wrong that these kids have to suffer for the actions of their parents.

Actually what is plain wrong is that we did not stop all these illegals from entering this country with kids in tow. We pass this Dream Act and many, many more will try to enter and again with kids in tow. It will be just as it was when the amnesty of 1986 passed. Millions more entered expecting to be here long enough to receive another amnesty - this might be the beginning of another one. If it is, then in a few years we will be talking about what to do not with 12/20 milliion but with double that number.

Well, you're right about one thing, we should have never let all these people enter the country illegally. Over the last 50 years are so we have allowed farmers to bring them into the country and ignored our our laws in order to provide cheap immigrant labor. Now we decide that was wrong and we want to toss them out.

The Dream Act does not encourage illegal immigration. Those that come after the bill is enacted are not covered. The idea that Mexicans will immigrate to the US in hopes that someday there will an amnesty is without merit. Illegal immigrants leave their families, homes, and friends and come to the US to find work not citizenship. Those that find steady work remain. Those that don't return to Mexico.

 

[Trajan]

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.6497 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

One of the issues I have is that it would allow illegal aliens to pay in-state tuition at state schools. Well I can speak directly to UC cal- Berkeley as an example.

They are cash starved. They have been raising the level of admissions for out of state students whom pay 22k more than an in state student pays to attend. They increased that level in the space of 2 years from 11 – 23%. They are still not out of the woods and have as the law of unintended consequences dictates, deprived in staters form attendance by the same margin.

Now, if we provide in state tuition to those whom cannot pay the out of state fees or and those who cannot pay at all, who pays?

In addition that will crowd out someone, in staters who can pay the usual in state tuition or out of staters how pay the 22k more.....so? How is this supposed to work?

I think we know who will pay in the end, native legal students parents, that’s who and its not fair to the instaters to boot.

 

[Flopper]

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.6497 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

One of the issues I have is that it would allow illegal aliens to pay in-state tuition at state schools. Well I can speak directly to UC cal- Berkeley as an example.

They are cash starved. They have been raising the level of admissions for out of state students whom pay 22k more than an in state student pays to attend. They increased that level in the space of 2 years from 11 – 23%. They are still not out of the woods and have as the law of unintended consequences dictates, deprived in staters form attendance by the same margin.

Now, if we provide in state tuition to those whom cannot pay the out of state fees or and those who cannot pay at all, who pays?

In addition that will crowd out someone, in staters who can pay the usual in state tuition or out of staters how pay the 22k more.....so? How is this supposed to work?

I think we know who will pay in the end, native legal students parents, that’s who and its not fair to the instaters to boot.

First of all, the bill does not provide any financial assistance toward college. I would think very few of these kids would have the funds to go Berkley. Most will go to community colleges and enter military service.

 

[chanel]

From Politifact:

As part of the program, immigrants could receive certain federal student loans, but not federal Pell grants, food stamps or Medicaid.

While granting DREAM Act participants in-state tuition is not part of the federal legislation, it may happen as a result of the legislation, Camarota at the Center for Immigration Studies argues

An illegal immigrant in Florida, say, applies for and is granted a conditional nonimmigrant status for five years. That person then is a legal resident of Florida. If so, why would he or she not be able to receive in-state tuition, Camarota asks. And if somehow denied in-state tuition, wouldn't the applicant have a valid legal challenge?

(The California Supreme Court ruled unanimously last month that illegal immigrant students may pay in-state tuition rates at public colleges and universities).

As for the other states, the only real argument is that passing the DREAM Act could have the consequence of forcing them to offer in-state tuition to illegal immigrants as well.

PolitiFact Florida | Florida congressman says DREAM Act means lower tuition for illegal immigrants

 

[Angelhair]

'The idea that Mexicans will immigrate to the US in hopes that someday there will an amnesty is without merit. Illegal immigrants leave their families, homes, and friends and come to the US to find work not citizenship. Those that find steady work remain. Those that don't return to Mexico.'

You are kidding, right? FEW come here to work - many come cause word gets out about all the perks/resources that this country gives them! Perks they would not dream of having in their country of birth! This is the type of thinking that cause these problems concerning illegal entry. Just look at ALL that is given to them and they don't even have to ask. You are living in la-la land if you believe that most come for work and the proof is in how they keep coming knowing full well there are NO jobs to be had here at this time! If americans keep thinking that work is what draws them here, this 'war' concerning illegal entry is lost.

 

[Trajan]

Bill Summary & Status - 111th Congress (2009 - 2010) - H.R.6497 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

One of the issues I have is that it would allow illegal aliens to pay in-state tuition at state schools. Well I can speak directly to UC cal- Berkeley as an example.

They are cash starved. They have been raising the level of admissions for out of state students whom pay 22k more than an in state student pays to attend. They increased that level in the space of 2 years from 11 – 23%. They are still not out of the woods and have as the law of unintended consequences dictates, deprived in staters form attendance by the same margin.

Now, if we provide in state tuition to those whom cannot pay the out of state fees or and those who cannot pay at all, who pays?

In addition that will crowd out someone, in staters who can pay the usual in state tuition or out of staters how pay the 22k more.....so? How is this supposed to work?

I think we know who will pay in the end, native legal students parents, that’s who and its not fair to the instaters to boot.

First of all, the bill does not provide any financial assistance toward college. I would think very few of these kids would have the funds to go Berkley. Most will go to community colleges and enter military service.

we'll see. frankly it appears to me to be just a matter of degree, Berkeley is one of the most expensive in the country yes, but UC Davis not so much etc etc etc...you think other UC's don't do same? All of the UC's are opening more slots for out of staters. UC Santa Brabara is approx. 10k for in state 24k for out of state etc.

 

[chanel]

And even if many would attend community colleges, who pays for those? The community colleges would need to double in size not to mention all the multi-lingual services that would be offered.

 

[Trajan]

I saw an article the other day that said a lot of the ivy league schools are dropping the language requirement ( which means the rest are sure to follow) i.e. taking a language to fill out your general ed. BUT we will create an environment where in its easier for those that don't have a command of English to get by.

 

[Bullfighter]

I saw an article the other day that said a lot of the ivy league schools are dropping the language requirement ( which means the rest are sure to follow) i.e. taking a language to fill out your general ed. BUT we will create an environment where in its easier for those that don't have a command of English to get by.

Colleges are not bastions of integrity, they are businesses which is why they are for the DREAM Act. You could put a pile of rocks in each chair and for the right amount of money those rocks will get a diploma.

 

[chanel]

I'm afraid you are right. A few of my friends have taught at the local community college and said its like teaching special ed. And just like high school, there is pressure to pass everyone.

 

[Mini 14]

Dream Act is dead on Senate Floor. 55-41.

Wasn't even close.

Adios, amigos.

 

[chanel]

Thanks mini. Score another one for common sense. Gettin there...lol

 

[Flopper]

Dream Act is dead on Senate Floor. 55-41.

Wasn't even close.

Adios, amigos.

Actually it was fairly close 55-41. A majority voted for passage but they were short 5 votes needed to prevent a filibusterer. If an immigration bill as innocuous as this can't be passed, it seems unlikely there will be any change in the foreseeable future.

 

[chilliowens]

I believe I explained my position clearly in the post you quoted. I suspect many others share the same concerns. Also, this continues a pattern of amnesty which encourages illegal entry into our nation as there is every reason to believe your turn at amnesty and reward will come.

Amnesty is a pardon for committing an offense. Since the beneficiaries of the act were brought here as children, I don't consider this amnesty. It is the parents that violated the law not the children. It makes no sense to punish the children for the actions of their parents unless you believe the children are responsible for the sins of the parents.

It makes even less sense to reward them for the offense of their parents. Reward them and here come more parents with more "innocent" children. Just stop it now.

It makes perfect sense you forfite all profits from your criminal act even a tax payer paid education. They deserve nothing, they get nothing. Americans first then we'll talk about who to help.

 

[Trajan]

Dream Act is dead on Senate Floor. 55-41.

Wasn't even close.

Adios, amigos.

Actually it was fairly close 55-41. A majority voted for passage but they were short 5 votes needed to prevent a filibusterer. If an immigration bill as innocuous as this can't be passed, it seems unlikely there will be any change in the foreseeable future.

IF the gov. got serious about closing the border and enacting a same immigration policy I would be first in line to vote for a graduated amnesty.

However; they are not and "let me be clear", I know that will never get them all at the border, BUT, I will take an 80% reduction and call it victory.

Until then, nope.

 

[chanel]

If we repealed birth right citizenship, I'd be on board as well.

 

[Sallow]

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
The New Colossus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes to the Dream Act.