Dow erases gains for the year, tumbles more than 600 points as stocks extend October swoon

[Picaro]

No real news. It all about guessing right;people who guessed it would go down and shorted yesterday made a lot of money. If they guess right about when it goes up they win. Whoopity whoopity.

 

[dave p]

Maga

Simplistic

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How to be a Progressive

Dow Up - Thank you, Obama
Dow Down - Fucking Trump!

 

[dave p]

The Chinese economy has been 'rattled' by the Trump tariffs.

In response, the Chinese have been doing some questionable financial schemes to help prop things up.

As a result, the Chinese markets have been dropping.

The US markets are responding in kind.

The market drop can indirectly be tied to the Trump tariffs.

But, we all know that, "trade wars are good & easy to win."

What a fvcking train wreck The Donald has unleashed.

There is nothing like putting shit dressing on your own sandwich; right Donny?

Anyone that wants to claim this is all because of tarriffs is a moron.

 

[Brain357]

No real news. It all about guessing right;people who guessed it would go down and shorted yesterday made a lot of money. If they guess right about when it goes up they win. Whoopity whoopity.

The rich probably made more. Everyone else most likely lost.

 

[Brain357]

How to be a Progressive

Dow Up - Thank you, Obama
Dow Down - Fucking Trump!

Trump does go against economics constantly.

 

[theHawk]

Didn’t the Hussein just take credit for the economy two days ago?

 

[g5000]

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

 

[g5000]

Didn’t the Hussein just take credit for the economy two days ago?

Hasn't Trump been taking credit for the economy for the past two years?

 

[caddo kid]

The Chinese economy has been 'rattled' by the Trump tariffs.

In response, the Chinese have been doing some questionable financial schemes to help prop things up.

As a result, the Chinese markets have been dropping.

The US markets are responding in kind.

The market drop can indirectly be tied to the Trump tariffs.

But, we all know that, "trade wars are good & easy to win."

What a fvcking train wreck The Donald has unleashed.

There is nothing like putting shit dressing on your own sandwich; right Donny?

Anyone that wants to claim this is all because of tarriffs is a moron.

No; it is not all about tariffs & I didn't say it is, did I? No, I did not but then you had to interject your bullshit into the thread in your lame ass attempt at being all bad ass.
Tariffs are part of the equation though.
There are other components; interest rates & 3rd Q results are two current biggies.
But go ahead & keep playing your wanna B bad ass 13 year old self.

 

[McRocket]

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

Thanks....I have been moaning about the money velocity for several years now - few listen. Nice to see someone who gets it as well.

Actually, my chart does go to today (if you look closely). But yours is more detailed/easier to read.

As for the upturn, I think it was because the Fed started to raise rates as opposed to the other way around.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

There's no way the Fed is indirectly influencing stock prices either

Not a chance

The Fed was doing backflips for O keeping it at O and shoving trillions his way. Yep, they were lipsticking that pig for O.

 

[g5000]

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

Thanks....I have been moaning about the money velocity for several years now - few listen. Nice to see someone who gets it as well.

Actually, my chart does go to today (if you look closely). But yours is more detailed/easier to read.

As for the upturn, I think it was because the Fed started to raise rates as opposed to the other way around.

I would like to hear your logic that higher interest rates increased the velocity of money.

The whole point of raising interest rates is to slow it down.

 

[dave p]

The Chinese economy has been 'rattled' by the Trump tariffs.

In response, the Chinese have been doing some questionable financial schemes to help prop things up.

As a result, the Chinese markets have been dropping.

The US markets are responding in kind.

The market drop can indirectly be tied to the Trump tariffs.

But, we all know that, "trade wars are good & easy to win."

What a fvcking train wreck The Donald has unleashed.

There is nothing like putting shit dressing on your own sandwich; right Donny?

Anyone that wants to claim this is all because of tarriffs is a moron.

No; it is not all about tariffs & I didn't say it is, did I? No, I did not but then you had to interject your bullshit into the thread in your lame ass attempt at being all bad ass.
Tariffs are part of the equation though.
There are other components; interest rates & 3rd Q results are two current biggies.
But go ahead & keep playing your wanna B bad ass 13 year old self.

Tarriffs were the only reference you made. You’re a fucking idiot and you have proven it in your posts.

 

[g5000]

There's no way the Fed is indirectly influencing stock prices either

Not a chance

The Fed was doing backflips for O keeping it at O and shoving trillions his way. Yep, they were lipsticking that pig for O.

They were doing it for the US and world economies.

Just like the ECB was doing it for Europe.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

It’s sure a bad year.

No, not in the grand scheme of things. We're down a point or two. Experienced, long term investors know not to worry at this point.
.

We are down 5.7% from the high on Jan 22...the day that Trump added his first tariff showing that he was stupid enough to get into a trade war.

So, at what point do you experienced, long term investors start to worry?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The Chinese economy has been 'rattled' by the Trump tariffs.

In response, the Chinese have been doing some questionable financial schemes to help prop things up.

As a result, the Chinese markets have been dropping.

The US markets are responding in kind.

The market drop can indirectly be tied to the Trump tariffs.

But, we all know that, "trade wars are good & easy to win."

What a fvcking train wreck The Donald has unleashed.

There is nothing like putting shit dressing on your own sandwich; right Donny?

Anyone that wants to claim this is all because of tarriffs is a moron.

Tariffs are not the only reason, but it is not a coincidence that this all started the day Trump leveled his first tariffs showing he was stupid enough to start a trade war.

 

[McRocket]

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

Thanks....I have been moaning about the money velocity for several years now - few listen. Nice to see someone who gets it as well.

Actually, my chart does go to today (if you look closely). But yours is more detailed/easier to read.

As for the upturn, I think it was because the Fed started to raise rates as opposed to the other way around.

I would like to hear your logic that higher interest rates increased the velocity of money.

The whole point of raising interest rates is to slow it down.

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

Thanks....I have been moaning about the money velocity for several years now - few listen. Nice to see someone who gets it as well.

Actually, my chart does go to today (if you look closely). But yours is more detailed/easier to read.

As for the upturn, I think it was because the Fed started to raise rates as opposed to the other way around.

I would like to hear your logic that higher interest rates increased the velocity of money.

The whole point of raising interest rates is to slow it down.

That is when the Fed is trying to slow down the economy. Since 2007 (or even 2001), the Fed has been trying to heat up the economy (through ZIRP and various QE).

As stated in Investopedia:

'Since 2007, however, the velocity of money has fallen dramatically as the Federal Reserve greatly expanded its balance sheet in an effort to combat the global financial crisis and deflationary pressures. As of the first quarter of 2016, M2 velocity was just 1.46x — the lowest reading since it bottomed out at 1.15x during the Great Depression.'

Velocity of Money

Now that the Fed is trying to raise rates to 'historic' norms and normalize it's balance sheet - it is causing the velocity to (slowly) rise again.

 

[BrokeLoser]

'The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 608.01 points at 24,583.42 and erased all of its gains for 2018. The S&P 500 dropped 3.1 percent to 2,656.10 and also turned negative for the year. The Nasdaq Composite fell 4.4 percent to 7,108.40— entering correction territory — as Facebook, Amazon, Netflix and Alphabet all traded lower.

"An increasingly murky macro picture is clouding the 2019 earnings outlook leaving investors to largely shrug off a solid start to the third quarter earnings season," said Alec Young, managing director of global markets research at FTSE Russell. "While valuations have certainly come down in recent weeks, at 16 times forward earnings for the Russell 1000 index, they aren't in the bargain basement by any means, especially if earnings growth slows more than expected next year."

Stocks have taken a beating this month. The Dow has dropped 7.1 percent in October, while the S&P 500 has pulled back 8.9 percent. The Nasdaq, meanwhile, has tumbled 11.7 percent.'

Dow erases gains for the year, tumbles more than 600 points as stocks extend October swoon


A week before Halloween - and the DOW is in the red for the year.

I blame George Soros.

There's no way the Fed is indirectly influencing stock prices either

Not a chance

Who picked the guy running the fed? Only the best!

What did the Kenyan do this time...I mean, it’s Hussein’s economy...right?

 

[g5000]

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

Thanks....I have been moaning about the money velocity for several years now - few listen. Nice to see someone who gets it as well.

Actually, my chart does go to today (if you look closely). But yours is more detailed/easier to read.

As for the upturn, I think it was because the Fed started to raise rates as opposed to the other way around.

I would like to hear your logic that higher interest rates increased the velocity of money.

The whole point of raising interest rates is to slow it down.

Could just be a nice correction. We're down less than 10% in this one, no big deal. Not yet, at least.

Of course, many are celebrating and hoping for the worst, but little can be done about people like that.

This is not a simple correction, IMO.

This is an unwinding of a HUGE period of central bank intervention that is now (finally) being slowly unwound. The trade silliness that Trump is obsessed with is just making things that much worse.

I am not saying today's carnage will continue unabated.

But the markets cannot keep growing without the Fed pumping them up anymore. All that debt has to work it's way out.

And the faster it happens, the better off America will be - the less cheap money it has to burn off.

Velocity of M2 Money Stock

For those of you who don't know what the above chart means - it shows that American money is not trading hands...at the lowest levels in recorded history.
That means that much of the money being spent is just new, cheap debt. Existing money is not moving much.
If the only way an economy is growing is through the creation of cheap debt...that is obviously bad news for the future as all that debt eventually has to be paid for.

Heh. My compliments. I don't see people talking about the velocity of money very often.

See my OP: The Fed's Bond Bubble Doomsday Machine

Your chart stops three years ago, though.

Here;

The velocity is picking up, and that is probably why the Fed is increasing interest rates.

Thanks....I have been moaning about the money velocity for several years now - few listen. Nice to see someone who gets it as well.

Actually, my chart does go to today (if you look closely). But yours is more detailed/easier to read.

As for the upturn, I think it was because the Fed started to raise rates as opposed to the other way around.

I would like to hear your logic that higher interest rates increased the velocity of money.

The whole point of raising interest rates is to slow it down.

That is when the Fed is trying to slow down the economy. Since 2007 (or even 2001), the Fed has been trying to heat up the economy (through ZIRP and various QE).

As stated in Investopedia:

'Since 2007, however, the velocity of money has fallen dramatically as the Federal Reserve greatly expanded its balance sheet in an effort to combat the global financial crisis and deflationary pressures. As of the first quarter of 2016, M2 velocity was just 1.46x — the lowest reading since it bottomed out at 1.15x during the Great Depression.'

Velocity of Money

Yes, we both agree the velocity slowed after the crash.

Now it is picking up. Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounded like you were attributing the increase in velocity to the Fed increasing interest rates. The cart before the horse, so to speak.

To me, it looks like the Fed is trying to get ahead of the curve and is increasing rates to keep the velocity from increasing too rapidly.