'don't Impose Your Values' Argument Is Bigotry In Disguise

[Said1]

I too am amused by my own humiliation. "Kick me, beat me, call me shirley"

As you wish.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

As you wish.

oh. baby. harder.

 

[Said1]

oh. baby. harder.

No.

 

[Bonnie]

Boy what a turn this thread has taken huh?

 

[sagegirl]

They could certainly do that as well. But what's the harm in having kids settle down for a minute or two to gather their thoughts for the day or maybe say a quick silent prayer? Only good can come of that, and it's certainly not intrusive to anyone.

A couple questions and observations:
What age group are we talking about? I think young children (under the age of 8 or 9), in any event those that need to settle down, are not mature enough to grasp the concept of prayer as a calming, meditative activity. The purposes for prayer could be an expression of genuine gratititude for ones blessings, an appeal for guidance, a request for strength, or simply a moment of reflection, and I suppose a multitude of other reasons.
I guess it could be said that any situation is appropriate for prayer but I should think that certain circumstances treat prayer with more reverance than others. I dont think the classroom necessarily qualifies.
I think if you give a young child a piece of paper and a box of crayons, and a couple minutes of quiet time with maybe a suggestion of what they might draw, a picture of their family or home, their pets, flowers, animals, or let them draw whatever they want, you invite them to express themselves and can gain insight into their lives. ( By posting the pictures you give them self confidence and a sense of pride in their work. )
If the kids are older, I think the old adage, "as long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school" holds true. A more mature child will find an appropriate moment to pray if that is a process they have be taught at home/church. I dont think there would be any way to prevent this sort of prayer and no reason to.
Secondly, I think that we all seem to get hung up in semantics (like the gays wanting to call themselves married, when that use of the word marriage really grinds some people the wrong way, who claim that if another phrase like civil union were used they wouldnt have the same objections) so rather than calling it prayer in school maybe another term could be used to soothe the opposition. I know if it clucks and struts like a chicken.......its a chicken but we all have our pet peeves so something like quiet time, or personal time, might be an option. I think we had similar moments like this in school when I was little and I think we would just be told to put our heads down on our desks and rest for a couple of minutes....nobody was calling it prayer.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

It doesn't even have to be referred to as "time to pray" it's just quiet time. Christian kids can pray if they wish. Liberal kids can hatch plots to destroy bush if they wish. have your ever heard of time outs for calming kids down? Even lib psychiatrists agree with this.

 

[MissileMan]

It doesn't even have to be referred to as "time to pray" it's just quiet time. Christian kids can pray if they wish. Liberal kids can hatch plots to destroy bush if they wish. have your ever heard of time outs for calming kids down? Even lib psychiatrists agree with this.

Would it be ok if satanist kids sacrificed a goat, or an athiest kid observed a moment of "noise" during the same time? Why are you trying to "hide" your kid's prayer in the cloak of "quiet time"? Call a spade a spade. You are advocating prayer in school, no matter what you call it. I maintain that if it is that important to you that your child pray before school starts that you should have them offer that prayer at home before leaving for school. How would that deny your child of anything?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Would it be ok if satanist kids sacrificed a goat, or an athiest kid observed a moment of "noise" during the same time? Why are you trying to "hide" your kid's prayer in the cloak of "quiet time"? Call a spade a spade. You are advocating prayer in school, no matter what you call it. I maintain that if it is that important to you that your child pray before school starts that you should have them offer that prayer at home before leaving for school. How would that deny your child of anything?

I think sacrficing a goat would probably violate the zero tolerance policy for knives in school. And "noisy" time seems absurd.


What's wrong with quiet time? What's wrong with each child thinking whatever he want during quiet time? Are you into thought control or something? You must be, sick freak.

 

[MissileMan]

I think sacrficing a goat would probably violate the zero tolerance policy for knives in school. And "noisy" time seems absurd.


What's wrong with quiet time? What's wrong with each child thinking whatever he want during quiet time? Are you into thought control or something? You must be, sick freak.

rtwngAvngr=artful dodger

 

[rtwngAvngr]

rtwngAvngr=artful dodger

So you're against quiet time because during quite time christians might pray? You're a damn nazi.

 

[MissileMan]

So you're against quiet time because during quite time christians might pray? You're a damn nazi.

No sir! I am against quiet time, because it is a euphamism for a moment of prayer, and you know it. Again you dodge the question though. Why can't your kids offer their prayers at home? Why are you insisting on injecting your religious practices into the public school system? How does asking these questions make me a nazi?

 

[DaTroof]

I'm Jewish and find a lot of agreement w/ MissileMan. I believe wholeheartedly in a God or superior being. I take the bible with a grain of salt however. The problem that I find w/ state sponsored religious exercises, is that it's a very slippery slope. How about if we keep religion out of our public institutions since you can't please everyone. If Christian children are really that interested in prayer they can form prayer groups, I have nothing against it. Keep in mind that it's not so weird for other religions, and non-believers, to look a bit skeptically at Christianity. Christianity is very oriented towards the conversion of others to it's faith ... think missionaries ... think inquisition, etc etc. Quite frankly I wish Christianity was keeping up w/ Islam, just not doing so on state funded time. Take a look at "blue ribbon laws". What's that about ?! It's ok to drink on my sabbath but not on yours ?! Let's just seperate church and state. I'll teach my kids my beliefs and values and you do likewise with yours. That way everyone, including the infidel non-belivers, will be happy in our democracy.

 

[Merlin]

I think the problem is that most Christians (I'm guilty too) think that Christianity is the only religion on earth and that the rest of the religions are an intrusion, a nuisance, ignorant, and hell bound. That is the way I was taught and that is the way we taught our children and now our grandkids. I was also taught that the United States was founded by breaking away from England in order to set up a Christian country and there wasn't any other religions to even consider. I'm by no means a Bible expert and don't profess to be able to interpret it correctly, but that is my interpretation.

 

[5stringJeff]

I think the problem is that most Christians (I'm guilty too) think that Christianity is the only religion on earth and that the rest of the religions are an intrusion, a nuisance, ignorant, and hell bound. That is the way I was taught and that is the way we taught our children and now our grandkids. I was also taught that the United States was founded by breaking away from England in order to set up a Christian country and there wasn't any other religions to even consider. I'm by no means a Bible expert and don't profess to be able to interpret it correctly, but that is my interpretation.

The first American colonists showed up to practice their religion freely, but we broke with England over economic and tax policy.

And another thing. If there was ever a time to establish a "Christian country" (or theocracy, as the atheist Left accuses us of), it would have been in 1787, when something like 95-99% of all Americans were churchgoing Christians. It didn't happen them and it won't happen now.

 

[Bonnie]

No sir! I am against quiet time, because it is a euphamism for a moment of prayer, and you know it. Again you dodge the question though. Why can't your kids offer their prayers at home? Why are you insisting on injecting your religious practices into the public school system? How does asking these questions make me a nazi?

Why are you so threatened by a simple moment of silence??
What is your real problem??? So what if quiet time is euphamism for prayer, so what,
it's still not offending anyone? And it's certainly not a teacher led prayer? You sound paranoid to me!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think the problem is that most Christians (I'm guilty too) think that Christianity is the only religion on earth and that the rest of the religions are an intrusion, a nuisance, ignorant, and hell bound. That is the way I was taught and that is the way we taught our children and now our grandkids. I was also taught that the United States was founded by breaking away from England in order to set up a Christian country and there wasn't any other religions to even consider. I'm by no means a Bible expert and don't profess to be able to interpret it correctly, but that is my interpretation.

You're such a fake conservative.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

No sir! I am against quiet time, because it is a euphamism for a moment of prayer, and you know it. Again you dodge the question though. Why can't your kids offer their prayers at home? Why are you insisting on injecting your religious practices into the public school system? How does asking these questions make me a nazi?

Being against harmless quiet time for fear of christians praying privately to themselves makes you a nazi.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I'm Jewish and find a lot of agreement w/ MissileMan. I believe wholeheartedly in a God or superior being. I take the bible with a grain of salt however. The problem that I find w/ state sponsored religious exercises, is that it's a very slippery slope. How about if we keep religion out of our public institutions since you can't please everyone. If Christian children are really that interested in prayer they can form prayer groups, I have nothing against it. Keep in mind that it's not so weird for other religions, and non-believers, to look a bit skeptically at Christianity. Christianity is very oriented towards the conversion of others to it's faith ... think missionaries ... think inquisition, etc etc. Quite frankly I wish Christianity was keeping up w/ Islam, just not doing so on state funded time. Take a look at "blue ribbon laws". What's that about ?! It's ok to drink on my sabbath but not on yours ?! Let's just seperate church and state. I'll teach my kids my beliefs and values and you do likewise with yours. That way everyone, including the infidel non-belivers, will be happy in our democracy.

A moment of silence pushes religion on noone. Has some of aj's anti christian paranoia rubbed off on you?

 

[DaTroof]

"Has some of aj's anti christian paranoia rubbed off on you?"

Not at all. I went to Jewish private school so we had prayers twice a day. That was my families perogitive. I would not expect the good taxpayers of this country to support my values with their money. I understand that it's just God in general that we are speaking of, but there are people that don't even believe in that, and really, that should make no difference. They should not have their tax dollars going to an instituation that supports a belief that they do not have. How do you think athiests feel about religious institutions that pull in millions a year and are run like a corporation enjoying tax exempt status while the athiest has to bust his butt to meet corporate taxes ?! It's just so much easier to leave state and religion seperate .. not like now. You still haven't explained to me why it is OK to sell alcohol on my sabbath and not Christianity's. You also haven't really presented any argument against Christianity being a very prostelatizing religion. So I'm not paranoid, state and religion mixing is just a very slippery slope which the US should not even be standing near. I realize that the founding fathers refered to God plenty, but maybe we should leave that in the past. I'm not saying that religions shouldn't be active. I think they are, in general, a positive influence in peoples' lives. Like I said .. just not state sponsored time and dollar.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

"Has some of aj's anti christian paranoia rubbed off on you?"

Not at all. I went to Jewish private school so we had prayers twice a day. That was my families perogitive. I would not expect the good taxpayers of this country to support my values with their money. I understand that it's just God in general that we are speaking of, but there are people that don't even believe in that, and really, that should make no difference. They should not have their tax dollars going to an instituation that supports a belief that they do not have. How do you think athiests feel about religious institutions that pull in millions a year and are run like a corporation enjoying tax exempt status while the athiest has to bust his butt to meet corporate taxes ?! It's just so much easier to leave state and religion seperate .. not like now. You still haven't explained to me why it is OK to sell alcohol on my sabbath and not Christianity's. You also haven't really presented any argument against Christianity being a very prostelatizing religion. So I'm not paranoid, state and religion mixing is just a very slippery slope which the US should not even be standing near. I realize that the founding fathers refered to God plenty, but maybe we should leave that in the past. I'm not saying that religions shouldn't be active. I think they are, in general, a positive influence in peoples' lives. Like I said .. just not state sponsored time and dollar.

Dude we're talking about a moment of silence. And many religions are prostelytyzing, unlike the race cult you guys have going.