Does President Obama get credit for saving GM?

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes....

But one is the right way, and the other is the wrong way. We the taxpayers should not be stuck holding the bag on this... the unions should pay for what they did, and GM should pay for getting in bed with them. Any grade school student could see it is all unsusatinable[sic] in the long run.

The union goons are in for the short term.

Challenge: Union goons is a term for Union men who beat up scabs. Name the Union goons you are referring to, please...and how the term applies to the named men.

GM got in bed with the Unions? Where is a credible link for this point?

Are taxpayers holding the bag for things? What if GM folded? What if the suppliers had went out of business? These were the stories back then, if we did nothing. Please, show me where people argued with credibility that allowing GM and others to fail would be good for the tax payers.

Please explain what is the 'right' way and what qualifies as the 'wrong' way and why

First… the “right way” is on their own or with private sector money… just like Staples or any other private business does.
That way Obama cant claim to have “done it for you”

History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts

How the US airlines got their $15 billion bailout
By Kate Randall
18 October 2001

What Was The Chrysler Bailout?

Political History

GM doing it on their own would of course be very painful… just like cancer surgery, and there is no guarantee of success either. That’s the way capitalism works here in America, or at least it used to.

Myth

It would have been better for the tax payers in the long run because it would send a clear message… clean up your act or fail. Plain and simple…

You appear to be a bit confused here:
It would have been a lesson to Corporate America, not the taxpayers

As for the “goons”.. I don’t have names and numbers… but I grew up in a union home and I know how it works.
My dad’s union hall was ran by a family friend, and we always suspected funny business going on with him and it was proven last year when he was indicted for embezeling nearly 1 million dollars from the local union… along with his wife the secretary.
Goons come in all shapes and sizes… You want links for my accusation that GM was in bed with unions… its public knowledge that the unions were asking for WAY TOO MUCH and GM gave it.
Look it up… google is your friend (sometimes).

Define 'way too much' and then define what is not 'way too much' and then you will start a conversation. As it stands we are what 2/3 pages into this thread and very little of substance has been offered or debated.

Why is that? Do people truly not know how to converse? Are we all stuck with what passes for conversation but is in reality baseless accusations and talking point score cards?

 

[Papageorgio]

I don't think GM is a success, at least not yet.

And if it is a success, Obama didn't get there on his own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because Obama was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because Obama worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If Obama were successful, somebody along the line gave Obama some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in his life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed Obama to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If GM is a success— he didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

So no, he doesn't get credit.

 

[hjmick]

Just as soon as I get my first dividend check...

 

[Avorysuds]

Dante, how about you tell us what you think on the matter and be EXTREAMLY specific as to why you feel that... rather than beat up everyone for telling you their opinion, providing links and having almost everyone in the thread but you agree with them.

 

[Avorysuds]

I don't think GM is a success, at least not yet.

And if it is a success, Obama didn't get there on his own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because Obama was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because Obama worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If Obama were successful, somebody along the line gave Obama some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in his life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed Obama to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If GM is a success— he didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

So no, he doesn't get credit.

Awesome. Nothing anyone does can ever yield them credit, someone else did all the work, someone else built that. Obama's words.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The subject is simply not as shallow as “Did Obama save the day?”

The question is as simple as it gets. Your answer may need nuance and more, but to suggest the question is not simple leaves me stunned.

In almost every case that Obama “saves the day” it seems the rules are dismissed solely for Obama. If GM failed would it have been Obama’s fault? No… But if they survive then does Obama get credit? It’s risk free for Obama. For the record GM have not been saved, they are still “hangin in there” at best and the money is not paid back.

It’s like the stimulus, Obama does it, it fails, but that ok because now it saved us from a depression….

A man is drowning and you jump in to save him, but the man dies anyway. Are you to blame?

It’s not the Presidents job to take tax payer money, give it to privet companies or citizens and gamble on something. Then if it fails say “I tried” or “it could have been worse!!!”

What I’m trying to tell you is giving Obama “credit” for doing something implies that if it didn’t work out there would be repercussions… There in fact no repercussions for Obama, it was purely a gamble with other people’s money, Obama would lose absolutely nothing if GM fails. In fact if GM fails Obama and his admin would simply claim GM didn't have what it took to get their stuff in order.

History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts

How the US airlines got their $15 billion bailout
By Kate Randall
18 October 2001

What Was The Chrysler Bailout?

Political History

 

[blackhawk]

You can give him the credit for G.M. if you want but does that mean we can also give him the blame for Solyndra?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Tell Al Capone that.... what ya think would've happened if he refused to pay, and then refused to go to jail for it

Bullshit they are not taken at the point of a gun!

Al Capone was a convicted criminal. Obligations to society. We all agree to play by the rules or suffer the consequences...consequences enforced in the name of we the people.

At the point of a gun and/or jail time... and btw, if you dont pay your taxes, you are a criminal and can be convicted of a crime for not doing so...

I know... I have had a run in with the IRS. They are BRUTAL AS FUNK!

I had a very bad experience. The IRS ended up correcting issues in their North East offices in the 1980s/1990s, but not before I got hurt.

So what?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

He answered your question extremely well. How does Obama get credit for something he is not even legally allowed to do?

can you please link to a reliable and credible source for this accusation?

Of course I can, this is the only one you will need on the subject of Federal powers.

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
...

please, you did not provide a source for the accusation. You provided a source to back up an unfounded argument. Your opinions are not a credible enough source.

goodbye. thank you for proving your worthiness for serious discussion.

 

[Avorysuds]

The subject is simply not as shallow as “Did Obama save the day?”

The question is as simple as it gets. Your answer may need nuance and more, but to suggest the question is not simple leaves me stunned.

In almost every case that Obama “saves the day” it seems the rules are dismissed solely for Obama. If GM failed would it have been Obama’s fault? No… But if they survive then does Obama get credit? It’s risk free for Obama. For the record GM have not been saved, they are still “hangin in there” at best and the money is not paid back.

It’s like the stimulus, Obama does it, it fails, but that ok because now it saved us from a depression….

A man is drowning and you jump in to save him, but the man dies anyway. Are you to blame?

It’s not the Presidents job to take tax payer money, give it to privet companies or citizens and gamble on something. Then if it fails say “I tried” or “it could have been worse!!!”

What I’m trying to tell you is giving Obama “credit” for doing something implies that if it didn’t work out there would be repercussions… There in fact no repercussions for Obama, it was purely a gamble with other people’s money, Obama would lose absolutely nothing if GM fails. In fact if GM fails Obama and his admin would simply claim GM didn't have what it took to get their stuff in order.

History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts

How the US airlines got their $15 billion bailout
By Kate Randall
18 October 2001

What Was The Chrysler Bailout?

Political History

You tried to equate a man drowning and someone jumping in to save them to the President of the US illegally handing privet corporations billions of dollars in a Union pay off.

You keep posting the history of bail outs as if it somehow makes it legal, are wars we have done since WWII magically legal because we do them illegally?


Please add to your own thread, try if you can to give your own opinion and maybe stop acting like we are all stupid until say something you like.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You can give him the credit for G.M. if you want but does that mean we can also give him the blame for Solyndra?

Do you give the President credit for saving GM?

and please, in a separate post describe your Solyndra argument.

 

[Papageorgio]

The subject is simply not as shallow as “Did Obama save the day?”

The question is as simple as it gets. Your answer may need nuance and more, but to suggest the question is not simple leaves me stunned.


A man is drowning and you jump in to save him, but the man dies anyway. Are you to blame?

It’s not the Presidents job to take tax payer money, give it to privet companies or citizens and gamble on something. Then if it fails say “I tried” or “it could have been worse!!!”

What I’m trying to tell you is giving Obama “credit” for doing something implies that if it didn’t work out there would be repercussions… There in fact no repercussions for Obama, it was purely a gamble with other people’s money, Obama would lose absolutely nothing if GM fails. In fact if GM fails Obama and his admin would simply claim GM didn't have what it took to get their stuff in order.

History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts

How the US airlines got their $15 billion bailout
By Kate Randall
18 October 2001

What Was The Chrysler Bailout?

Political History

You tried to equate a man drowning and someone jumping in to save them to the President of the US illegally handing privet corporations billions of dollars in a Union pay off.

You keep posting the history of bail outs as if it somehow makes it legal, are wars we have done since WWII magically legal because we do them illegally?


Please add to your own thread, try if you can to give your own opinion and maybe stop acting like we are all stupid until say something you like.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the connection of wrong decisions in the past making them okay now.

 

[Avorysuds]

can you please link to a reliable and credible source for this accusation?

Of course I can, this is the only one you will need on the subject of Federal powers.

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net


Section 8 - Powers of Congress
...

please, you did not provide a source for the accusation. You provided a source to back up an unfounded argument. Your opinions are not a credible enough source.

goodbye. thank you for proving your worthiness for serious discussion.

I provided that actual legal law of the land, I'm sorry that you find the constitution irrelevant, lol. Maybe I should link you to a CNN/FOX news story before you take our laws seriously? And for the record you’re borderline trolling.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I don't think GM is a success, at least not yet.

And if it is a success, Obama didn't get there on his own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because Obama was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because Obama worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If Obama were successful, somebody along the line gave Obama some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in his life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed Obama to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If GM is a success— he didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

So no, he doesn't get credit.

Awesome. Nothing anyone does can ever yield them credit, someone else did all the work, someone else built that. Obama's words.

please stop spamming the thread, This is the Clean Zone

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I don't think GM is a success, at least not yet.

And if it is a success, Obama didn't get there on his own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because Obama was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because Obama worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If Obama were successful, somebody along the line gave Obama some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in his life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed Obama to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If GM is a success— he didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

So no, he doesn't get credit.

Not really as smart an answer as you may think. President Obama never said people do not get credit for things. He said they share credit, But, please, can you stay on topic?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dante, how about you tell us what you think on the matter and be EXTREAMLY specific as to why you feel that... rather than beat up everyone for telling you their opinion, providing links and having almost everyone in the thread but you agree with them.

simple. reply to the first post and I would respond. It's how conversation usually works, when people stay on topic with Honesty, Integrity, and Transparency.

 

[Avorysuds]

You can give him the credit for G.M. if you want but does that mean we can also give him the blame for Solyndra?

Do you give the President credit for saving GM?

and please, in a separate post describe your Solyndra argument.

I think I see now what the issue is. You wanted a single word answer, yes or no to your question. If anyone gives an answer with depth you simple present the question again, and again… and again….

So far it’s safe to say no one in this thread has credited Obama with “saving GM.” So I’ll ask again, seeing as you are avoiding answering any questions yourself. Dante, do you feel Obama has saved GM and deserves credit for it if so?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

thread is dead.

goodbye

Is there a way to keep trolls out of Clean Zone threads?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Honesty Integrity Transparency

Dante has tried HIT jobs on USMB and more often than not, come up with failure

Argument. Debates. Discussions.

What is it you seek when you enter into a conversation? How do you get to control how others will respond? How do you deal with posts that bury a thought, an idea, a salient point?

Talking about what equals a debate is fine, but a debate is not what I think most reasonable and rational people seek. I think they seek a conversation. An honest and open conversation minus deceit, deception, and deflection.

nuf said

dD

 

[eflatminor]

thread is dead.

goodbye

Is there a way to keep trolls out of Clean Zone threads?

Yes. Stay out of the Clean Zone.