Does President Obama get credit for saving GM?

[blackhawk]

You can give him the credit for G.M. if you want but does that mean we can also give him the blame for Solyndra?

Do you give the President credit for saving GM?

and please, in a separate post describe your Solyndra argument.

For the Solyndra part because the President and the Government backed,supported, and gave money to GM and they bounced back the idea seems to be he saved GM well the President and the Government also backed, supported, and gave money to Solyndra but they went bankrupt. So if you feel the President should get credit for saving GM by backing them with Government money shouldn't he get the blame for the Solyndra failure which also had Government money backing? If we want to get real and honest here don't you think the recovery of GM and the failure of Solyndra has less to do with the President and more to do with the people running the companies?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

reading lesson definitions: Non sequitur (logic) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you for demonstrating your non sequitur...oh the irony! Dolt.

insults?

goodbye and please leave the thread

Fair and Balanced

 

[Papageorgio]

So Dante doesn't like the answers, no one agrees with his OPINION, so he claims that the thread belongs in the flame zone.

Dante, I fail to see that GM is a success, they still owe the taxpayers billions, until the government gets out of GM, until GM can then show it will remain profitable, I do not think it is a success. However, I will give Obama the credit for loan and screwing bond holders.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So Dante doesn't like the answers, no one agrees with his OPINION, so he claims that the thread belongs in the flame zone.

Dante, I fail to see that GM is a success, they still owe the taxpayers billions, until the government gets out of GM, until GM can then show it will remain profitable, I do not think it is a success. However, I will give Obama the credit for loan and screwing bond holders.

I mistakenly thought there was no trolling, spamming, hijacking, and insulting allowed in here.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Does President Obama get credit for saving GM?
Here is an old thread OP. Started out fine...

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

I don't have the latest stats handy, but the conversation can go forward as is: Did Obama save GM and does he deserve credit, and if not, why not?




note: old links broken or..

anyway: GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion, Plans IPO Up to $16 Billion - Bloomberg

Here is how the thread started out. I assumed staying on topic as well as not hijacking a thread was the point of this board.

 

[BDBoop]

Dante, did you report the thread? - It's 4:00 a.m. here. We can't be expecting this board to be moderated 24/7. Maybe just walk away and see what shakes out tomorrow.

 

[Luissa]

Moving to politics due to off topic posts and trolling.

 

[Claudette]

You can give him the credit for G.M. if you want but does that mean we can also give him the blame for Solyndra?

Do you give the President credit for saving GM?

and please, in a separate post describe your Solyndra argument.

I don't give the Prez credit for saving GM. What he did was payback the Unions for all their support in 2008.

What he did was hand the Unions loads of money to bail out their very generous lifetime medical and pension funds.

Hell. GM went into bankrupcy after the bail out which is where they should have gone to begin with.

You note they went into bankrupcy AFTER THE BAILOUT. AFTER THEY USED MONEY TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THEIR PENSION FUNDS AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE.

The bond and shareholders along with those who had 401K's and retirement invested in GM and Chrysler got hosed. Barry sure didn't give a flying fuck about those folks. They went right around the law to do this.

Good little article on how they did this.

James Sherk and Todd Zywicki: Obama's United Auto Workers Bailout - WSJ.com

This one lays the blame at Bushs door. TARP I and all. Obama's General Motors [GM] Tarp Bailout - The Untold Details

Either way we taxpayers got hosed.

 

[FA_Q2]

Challenge: Union goons is a term for Union men who beat up scabs. Name the Union goons you are referring to, please...and how the term applies to the named men.

GM got in bed with the Unions? Where is a credible link for this point?

Are taxpayers holding the bag for things? What if GM folded? What if the suppliers had went out of business? These were the stories back then, if we did nothing. Please, show me where people argued with credibility that allowing GM and others to fail would be good for the tax payers.

Please explain what is the 'right' way and what qualifies as the 'wrong' way and why

First… the “right way” is on their own or with private sector money… just like Staples or any other private business does.
That way Obama cant claim to have “done it for you”

History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts

How the US airlines got their $15 billion bailout
By Kate Randall
18 October 2001

What Was The Chrysler Bailout?

Political History


Myth

It would have been better for the tax payers in the long run because it would send a clear message… clean up your act or fail. Plain and simple…

You appear to be a bit confused here:
It would have been a lesson to Corporate America, not the taxpayers

As for the “goons”.. I don’t have names and numbers… but I grew up in a union home and I know how it works.
My dad’s union hall was ran by a family friend, and we always suspected funny business going on with him and it was proven last year when he was indicted for embezeling nearly 1 million dollars from the local union… along with his wife the secretary.
Goons come in all shapes and sizes… You want links for my accusation that GM was in bed with unions… its public knowledge that the unions were asking for WAY TOO MUCH and GM gave it.
Look it up… google is your friend (sometimes).

Define 'way too much' and then define what is not 'way too much' and then you will start a conversation. As it stands we are what 2/3 pages into this thread and very little of substance has been offered or debated.

Why is that? Do people truly not know how to converse? Are we all stuck with what passes for conversation but is in reality baseless accusations and talking point score cards?

Plenty has been offered, you refuse to acknowledge anything anyone else has to say whatsoever because you do not agree with it. That is asinine.

Dante, did you report the thread? - It's 4:00 a.m. here. We can't be expecting this board to be moderated 24/7. Maybe just walk away and see what shakes out tomorrow.

Reported for what? Disagreements with dante?





The fact remains, many here have presented an argument that goes far beyond a yes or no, mostly because a yes or no is neither debate nor good conversation. We can start with something simple and MAYBE you can move past this:

GM has not been saved.

That simple. Care to move the debate forward or is trolling all you want to see in this thread?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Does President Obama get credit for saving GM?
Here is an old thread OP. Started out fine...

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

I don't have the latest stats handy, but the conversation can go forward as is: Did Obama save GM and does he deserve credit, and if not, why not?




note: old links broken or..

anyway: GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion, Plans IPO Up to $16 Billion - Bloomberg

We saved GM. WE deserve credit.

 

[Claudette]

Oh and GM is now building a plant in China. Outsourcing jobs. Good move for them but bad for those looking for work in America.

So glad my taxdollars went to support GM's unions.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Question is does obama get credit for sending GM jobs to china and Mexico?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Oh and GM is now building a plant in China. Outsourcing jobs. Good move for them but bad for those looking for work in America.

So glad my taxdollars went to support GM's unions.

Its not outsourcing when you set up shop in China to make products to sell to the Chinese. Its outsourcing when you set up shop in China to make products to sell in the U.S.

For the Shanghai GM passenger-car venture, which is expanding capacity in two existing plants in the cities of Shenyang and Yantai, the new factory will provide enough capacity for the company to meet its target of selling 1.3 million vehicles in China this year, Ma said. Shanghai GM sold 1.2 million vehicles last year, it said Jan. 9.

GM May Build 7 Billion Yuan China Factory - Bloomberg

 

[Claudette]

So. The can't build the plant in America and sell to the Chinese??

Nice to know.

As I said. Good business move on GM's part but not so good for jobs in America.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

So. The can't build the plant in America and sell to the Chinese??

Not really. China imposes crippling tariffs on imported vehicles from the U.S. Its either build the cars in China to sell to the Chinese - or not sell to the Chinese.

Nice to know.

As I said. Good business move on GM's part but not so good for jobs in America.

Like you give a shit whether or not GM employs people in the U.S.

 

[pete]

Does President Obama get credit for saving GM?
Here is an old thread OP. Started out fine...

Did Obama Save GM?
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains
GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion on Auto Sales Gains - BusinessWeek

For the longest time we have been subjected to wild rants about Obama 'taking over' GM. Socialism on the march!

Now it looks like GM is on the road to becoming a profitable private entity again -- thanks to Obama.

Does Obama get credit?

---

“Last year GM was shutting down plants when they filed” Chapter 11, said Wall, who is based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. “This summer, most of its U.S. plants were running full out.”

btw, is the above quote an example of the new generation of editors being dumbed down? who is 'Wall'?

I don't have the latest stats handy, but the conversation can go forward as is: Did Obama save GM and does he deserve credit, and if not, why not?




note: old links broken or..

anyway: GM Profit Rises to $1.54 Billion, Plans IPO Up to $16 Billion - Bloomberg

So when you purchase your own product with borrowed money and tout you are no longer in the red yet millions and billions still owed in loans could you explain exactly how it was saved?
If they did bankruptcy they would actually have less debt right now.

 

[SniperFire]

GM hasn't been 'saved.'

I bet even OP could make GM run for a while if we gave him 50 billion in taxpayer dollars.

 

[plant]

It would be nice if they were actually a success story, but then again, it was destined for failure from the start.

Are bailouts or bankruptcy considered failure? Lee Iacocca? Donald Trump?

If so then the the taxpayers Olympics aka romneys best were a failure

 

[zeke]

Pisses the righties off that, here in the state of Ohio (swing state) UE numbers are much better and going down and every person in the state that works in or for the automobile industry, at least appreciates that they still have a job.

Many will vote Obama. On that issue alone.

Really pisses you rethugs off. Doesn't it? And in an important swing state.

On a side question. Why is it ok to give farmers welfare for the drought (thereby "bailing" them out) but not ok to do that with an industry? And of course, most farmers here in Ohio are staunch repugs, lining up for their welfare. How hypocitical can you get?

The market is the market. If it don't rain it don't rain. Why should my tax dollars go to farmers who didn't buy crop insurance. Or who did buy crop insurance and still want the Feds to give them money.

 

[SniperFire]

Pisses the righties off that, here in the state of Ohio (swing state) UE numbers are much better and going down and every person in the state that works in or for the automobile industry, at least appreciates that they still have a job.

Kasich has turned Ohio around - just like he said he would.