Does big government equal social justice???

[Sallow]

Government, in particular the federal government, is the only organization with the reach and the force to implement social justice as it is seen by the statists.

To them social equality has not been reached, so rich people contiue to exist. Also, most of the time, they are just FINE with certain people being able to keep thier wealth, they just want people who disagree with them politically to lose thier wealth, their voice, and thier rights.

What they don't mention is that there will always be a political overclass, and it is thier goal to BE that overclass once they get thier statist way.

Statist way?

The type of government we have ALLOWS for accumulation of weath and wealth retention.

No government..no wealth.

Try it some time.

Our System violates Rights and grows in Power Everyday.

Yeah.

For the wealthy.

 

[RodISHI]

Does big government equal social justice???

Does small government equal social justice?

Once people are broken a small SS force can handle it.

 

[martybegan]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

Government, in particular the federal government, is the only organization with the reach and the force to implement social justice as it is seen by the statists.

To them social equality has not been reached, so rich people contiue to exist. Also, most of the time, they are just FINE with certain people being able to keep thier wealth, they just want people who disagree with them politically to lose thier wealth, their voice, and thier rights.

What they don't mention is that there will always be a political overclass, and it is thier goal to BE that overclass once they get thier statist way.

Statist way?

The type of government we have ALLOWS for accumulation of weath and wealth retention.

No government..no wealth.

Try it some time.

You can have wealth with little government, you just need your own private army, a good walled compound, and a lack of an organized viable exterior threat.

You didnt really answer my statement, just went off on a "government is what makes people sucessful" rant.

 

[Katzndogz]

Give the government overwhelming power, control of the nation's wealth, and then expect them to divide it justly and fairly.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong!

 

[Wiseacre]

Does big gov't = social justice? Maybe it depends on how you interpret the term "social justice". Is it based on equal opportunities and the absence of discrimination? Or is it based on redistribution of wealth to arrive at more equal outcomes?

I suspect that a significant part of the inequalities we see today are caused by big gov't rather than ameliorated by it. It is big gov't that panders to big corps and the uberrich people that can afford to influence (bribe) politicians. Both sides of the aisle, don't give me this crap that either side is worse than the other. If you reduce the size of gov't you also reduce the power of lobbyists, cuz there's less money to throw around.

Big gov't has a very poor record over the past 30 years or so of reducing either side of the inequality issue (opportunity vs outcomes). I think that's mostly because pols tend to think in the short run, IOW the next election, rather than what's really the best course of action over the long term. They throw big money at problems such as education, housing, energy, time and again to little or no positive gain. The truth is that big gov't really sucks at everything it tries to do, and as a result we're allthe worse for that.

 

[Intense]

Statist way?

The type of government we have ALLOWS for accumulation of weath and wealth retention.

No government..no wealth.

Try it some time.

Our System violates Rights and grows in Power Everyday.

Yeah.

For the wealthy.

For those controlling who gets into what school, on what terms. For those that want to obstruct Trade through Bureaucracy and Regulation. For those that want to control Utilities, resources, commerce in general through Surcharge and Obstruction. Subsidies effect the bottom line too Sallow. Universities Exploiting the Young more Every Year, it just doesn't add up. Lets meet up in Greenpoint on the #7 line and hit the Protest.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

First, there is no ‘big government crowd,’ whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Second, what you’re incorrectly inferring to be ‘big government advocates’ are in reality pragmatists and realists who understand that the size of government reflects the nature of a 21st Century, First World, modern industrialized nation. Government is no ‘larger’ or ‘smaller’ than it needs to be to accommodate the business, industry, markets, and population of a modern society.

Indeed, business and industry are just as dependent on government as any other sector; business and industry depend on government to maintain roads, waterways, and other components of infrastructure, provide regulatory guidelines with regard to consumer and employee health and safety, and to train and educate future workers.

Third, in the context of the rule of law, a people need never fear the government provided the courts remain an open venue to challenge unjust laws and seek relief accordingly. The fear shouldn’t be of the size of government per se, but the willingness of the people to surrender their freedom for security and accede to the tyranny of the majority.

Last, ‘social equality’ is the consequence of a justly governed society, having nothing again to do with ‘size.’ No one views government – of any size – as a ‘cure all’ for the Nation’s problems.

 

[Intense]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

First, there is no ‘big government crowd,’ whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Second, what you’re incorrectly inferring to be ‘big government advocates’ are in reality pragmatists and realists who understand that the size of government reflects the nature of a 21st Century, First World, modern industrialized nation. Government is no ‘larger’ or ‘smaller’ than it needs to be to accommodate the business, industry, markets, and population of a modern society.

Indeed, business and industry are just as dependent on government as any other sector; business and industry depend on government to maintain roads, waterways, and other components of infrastructure, provide regulatory guidelines with regard to consumer and employee health and safety, and to train and educate future workers.

Third, in the context of the rule of law, a people need never fear the government provided the courts remain an open venue to challenge unjust laws and seek relief accordingly. The fear shouldn’t be of the size of government per se, but the willingness of the people to surrender their freedom for security and accede to the tyranny of the majority.

Last, ‘social equality’ is the consequence of a justly governed society, having nothing again to do with ‘size.’ No one views government – of any size – as a ‘cure all’ for the Nation’s problems.

nice perspective. You are speaking for Yourself though, not the Norm. Bureaucracy, Redundancy, are problems though. Too many Administrators, too many crossed Wires and Jurisdiction. True Enough, a Just Government will seek to correct wrongs. A Just Government will seek to Protect us from All Enemies, both Foreign and Domestic, including Itself. A Just Government will not throw Unalienable Rights, Individual Liberty, even Property Rights, under the Bus.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

Big government is an idiots phrase to make people believe something is wrong with government even if its working to protect the people

No, big government is the phrase I use to describe the government going out of its way to protect rich corporations from progress. The perfect example of this would be PROTECT-IP/E-PARASITES act which caters to rich companies and will make this site illegal if it links to anything that anyone does not want them to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Its crazy how many of these right wing fools HATE the government our founders left us

Our Founders did not leave us a government that could collect income taxes or tell people they could not grow vegetables for personal consumption.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Does big government equal social justice???

Does small government equal social justice?

Does social justice equal social justice?

 

[flacaltenn]

So many misconceptions. So much stupid spin.

Social justice is the way to ensure everyone gets an even break. Since the vast majority of the wealth is held by the slimmest of minorities, the essential failing of Capitalism is glaringly apparent. Once that wealth has disappeared from the grasp of each working American, the very American dream is endangered.

Many so called pundits on the right (and that 'right is getting more and more extreme) cite social justice as some Communist cabal. It figures. The right has a playbook for political success. And that playbook calls for playing the 'Communist" card whenever their political policies have failed. They started playing that commie card way back in 1919 and every thirty years or so, they dust it off and play it again.

How much justice can there be in a system that permits, even encourages by legislation that wealth can be consolidated among the very few? Reagan introduced "Supply Side" economics (Trickle Down or Voodoo Economics) and completely ignored the demand side! Coddle the rich with tax cuts, rewrite legislation to prevent monopolies and trusts that are "too big to fail" and bail the bastards out once they have committed enough common sense infractions and run the whole system into a ditch.

The basic problem with ignoring the demand side is it cuts the strength out from under the consumer base in our system of economics. Forget the consumer and who's left to buy the goods and services provided by the Supply Side?

And here's the real kicker: the very people most adversely effected by the consolidation of wealth (the American middle class consumer) are the folks hoodwinked by the pundits. How many people face foreclosure, and increase in tax rates (see "Flat Tax") and a vanishing industrial base. Do you suppose those modern American "Conservatives" have actually thought out how their compliance with Supply Side economic policies have screwed them blue? I doubt it! There's enough of a side show with the 'pundits' to keep them distracted from the wreck happening in their own lives. The pundits distract with social issues that foment hate and division. It gives those non-thinking American Conservatives enough red meat (hating immigrants, gays, minorities and the political opposition) and prevents real analysis of destructive policies like "Free Trade" and "Flat Taxes".

And so, we get the Social Justice movement. The pundits immediately play the Communist Card and voilà! The danger is apparent to the modern Conservative and any hope of understanding the means and ends of the movement are veneered by the old Red Scare!

Let's test your "Social Justice" conviction here. Seems to be based largely on income and wealth like any good Socialist plank.. Soo ---

How exactly do you draw a distinction between a 28Mill annual salary in the NBA playing just 6 months of the year and the CEO of Caterpillar who is in charge of 81 separate businesses and engaged EVERY Day of the year?? Who's evil there? And why is it your business?

Actually the NBA star is now REFUSING to the serve the public because of percieved labor abuse.. Help me out here.........

BTW: The CEO of Caterpillar only makes 1/2 the compensation of the basketball player....

 

[martybegan]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

First, there is no ‘big government crowd,’ whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Second, what you’re incorrectly inferring to be ‘big government advocates’ are in reality pragmatists and realists who understand that the size of government reflects the nature of a 21st Century, First World, modern industrialized nation. Government is no ‘larger’ or ‘smaller’ than it needs to be to accommodate the business, industry, markets, and population of a modern society.

Indeed, business and industry are just as dependent on government as any other sector; business and industry depend on government to maintain roads, waterways, and other components of infrastructure, provide regulatory guidelines with regard to consumer and employee health and safety, and to train and educate future workers.

Third, in the context of the rule of law, a people need never fear the government provided the courts remain an open venue to challenge unjust laws and seek relief accordingly. The fear shouldn’t be of the size of government per se, but the willingness of the people to surrender their freedom for security and accede to the tyranny of the majority.

Last, ‘social equality’ is the consequence of a justly governed society, having nothing again to do with ‘size.’ No one views government – of any size – as a ‘cure all’ for the Nation’s problems.

Yes there is a big government crowd. it consists of those who see federal power as superceding state power in almost all cases, those who see goverment as a prime employer, not as effectively overhead for the private economy, and those who seek to regulate peoples lives on the broadest scale possible.

To say these people do not exist is intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Chris]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

The fastest growing economy in Europe is Sweden.

Money invested in education, healthcare, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

 

[Wiseacre]

Somebody has to pay the bill, sooner or later. Social justice costs a lot of money nd the costs of our entitlement programs continues to outpace economic growth. Big gov't is very wasteful and rife with fraud and crony capitalism. And don't give me this crap that it's only the repubs; bullshit, it's both sides and has been since the getgo.

And BTW, the rich guys don't have enough money to balance the budget. Anyone who thinks that is very out of touch with reality. We've gotta prioritze, what can we afford to do and how are we going to pay for it? Spending more now and saying you'll pay for it later is irresponsible.

 

[flacaltenn]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

The fastest growing economy in Europe is Sweden.

Money invested in education, healthcare, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

I wouldn't trust this govt to invest in a church raffle ticket.. It's the arrogance that they are qualified to RUN and DIRECT everything from energy drinks to nuclear physics. That's the 537 ELECTED Washington officials OF WHICH YOU only get to vote for 5 of them...

The problem with big govt as the equalizer is that they don't know SHIT about stuff. Leftists expect that an energy policy is just something that Al Gore can come up with in the shower. It's a childish unrealistic expectation that GOVT could construct a meaningful and wise energy policy without KNOWING exactly what was in the LABS of every energy company in America. And they TRY to do that. They get carnal with industry because THEY HAVE TO --- unless they want to look like chumps when they draft a policy that becomes obsolete in 6 months.

You CANNOT have an equalizer that doesn't fornicate with the REAL creative forces in society. It DOES not work that way. If they are gonna claim a mandate to meddle in a particular market -- there is gonna be collusion..

I --- don't want the govt coming up with policy and subsidies without consulting industry. Do you? So the best thing to do is to LIMIT their ability to meddle in domestic economic issues.

 

[francoHFW]

Reasonable regulation to protect customers,people, and workers =social justice, does NOT equal Pubcrappe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

First, there is no ‘big government crowd,’ whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Second, what you’re incorrectly inferring to be ‘big government advocates’ are in reality pragmatists and realists who understand that the size of government reflects the nature of a 21st Century, First World, modern industrialized nation. Government is no ‘larger’ or ‘smaller’ than it needs to be to accommodate the business, industry, markets, and population of a modern society.

Indeed, business and industry are just as dependent on government as any other sector; business and industry depend on government to maintain roads, waterways, and other components of infrastructure, provide regulatory guidelines with regard to consumer and employee health and safety, and to train and educate future workers.

Third, in the context of the rule of law, a people need never fear the government provided the courts remain an open venue to challenge unjust laws and seek relief accordingly. The fear shouldn’t be of the size of government per se, but the willingness of the people to surrender their freedom for security and accede to the tyranny of the majority.

Last, ‘social equality’ is the consequence of a justly governed society, having nothing again to do with ‘size.’ No one views government – of any size – as a ‘cure all’ for the Nation’s problems.

Talk about misconceptions and spin.

First, if there is no big government crowd why is there a pro side to the debate about big government?

Debate: Big government - Debatepedia

Second, if big government advocates are actually pragmatists who support business why are they actually advocating against business when they advocate for government?

Business and industry are depend on regulatory guidelines to keep competitors out of the market, not to protect consumers.

Third. the bigger the government is the more freedom we have seceded and the less security we have. The "rule of law" is set up to deny people rights, not protect them.

Last, social equality does not come as a consequence of governing society, it comes when society is free and open.

PS,

LEARN TO USE THE FUCKING QUOTE.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It appears to me that many of the constituency seem to view big government as the 'cure all' regarding social inequality. Both taxes & wealth redistribution seem to be the preferred avenues that the social equality crowd navigates to arrive at their expectations. I must ask though, IF big government does indeed bring forth true social equality how does the social equality crowd explain Former senator Ted Kennedy & senator John McCain??? I mean both senators mentioned were/are wealthy far beyond their government pay allotment by all assessments.
I am not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, just curious how the big government crowd goes about rationalizing their love affair with big government.

The fastest growing economy in Europe is Sweden.

Money invested in education, healthcare, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

Sweden is not the fastest growing economy in Europe.

 

[Sallow]

Its crazy how many of these right wing fools HATE the government our founders left us

The founders probably wouldn't recognize the government as it is today.

90% of thier responses to current federal programs would be "why aren't the states handling this?"

Yeah like George Washington..the same cat who crushed the Whiskey Rebellion..

Oh wait..