Do you stand with Israel or Palestine?

[toomuchtime_]

YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (1/2)‬‏
YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (2/2)‬‏

I'm glad to see you've come to agree with me. If Zoabi lived in either Gaza or the West Bank and openly expressed views this critical of one of those governments, she would be lucky if she only went to prison instead of being executed as a collaborator, but in Israel she is free to speak her mind, no matter how offensive her speech is to the government or most Israelis, and to go on serving in the Knesset. This poor woman doesn't seem to realize how lucky she is to be an Arab Israeli instead of a Palestinian Arab living in the territories.

Collaborators are complicit in murder. What should their sentence be?

In the West Bank and Gaza, as likely as not those executed as collaborators have merely expressed unpopular opinions.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm glad to see you've come to agree with me. If Zoabi lived in either Gaza or the West Bank and openly expressed views this critical of one of those governments, she would be lucky if she only went to prison instead of being executed as a collaborator, but in Israel she is free to speak her mind, no matter how offensive her speech is to the government or most Israelis, and to go on serving in the Knesset. This poor woman doesn't seem to realize how lucky she is to be an Arab Israeli instead of a Palestinian Arab living in the territories.

Collaborators are complicit in murder. What should their sentence be?

In the West Bank and Gaza, as likely as not those executed as collaborators have merely expressed unpopular opinions.

Interesting speculation. What would people say that the government would not like?

 

[voice4HR]

Unfortunately this is not a simple question, the situation is very complex and there is a long history there. Of course it would be great if both israelis and palestinians could come to a peace agreement and live side by side together in a unified nation but the likelihood of that is very small. In the end the groups will either end up killing one another for many many more years or eventually establishing separate states (mostly like mandated by an international body).

 

[editec]

Lets see...Jews or Muslims?

Well since Muslims suck!!! I will take the Jews anyday. (Especially if their name is Kinky Friedman).

Hypocrite much ??

Yesterday on another thread you said that you hated Easterners.

And we all know that you hate liberals.

Kinky is an eastern liberal who transplanted to Texas

He's originally from Rochester, New York.

Kinky's right about one right though...they're just not making Jews like Jesus anymore.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Collaborators are complicit in murder. What should their sentence be?

In the West Bank and Gaza, as likely as not those executed as collaborators have merely expressed unpopular opinions.

Interesting speculation. What would people say that the government would not like?

Historically, it was sufficient a few years ago in Gaza to speak up for Fatah to be thrown off a rooftop to your death, and it has been sufficient since 1967 to suggest cooperating with Israel to be killed as a collaborator by one or another of the gangs while the government looked away.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Unfortunately this is not a simple question, the situation is very complex and there is a long history there. Of course it would be great if both israelis and palestinians could come to a peace agreement and live side by side together in a unified nation but the likelihood of that is very small. In the end the groups will either end up killing one another for many many more years or eventually establishing separate states (mostly like mandated by an international body).

It is a complicated situation and no solution will go down easily for either side, but the central problem with finding the most equitable solution is that the Palestinian Arabs have systematically killed off any Arabs who advocated any realistic solution with Israel since 1967. Both Hamas and the PA have sought to control the news, the schools and the pulpits to send out the message that the only solution to the problem is victory over Israel. When al Jazeera published a few of the Palestine Papers a few months ago, we saw just how effective this half century campaign of censorship and assassination has been. Representatives of the PA who were reported to have even discussed compromise with Israeli were met with demands of banishment or death by the Palestinian Arabs and most of the rest of the Arab street. There can be no solution between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs until the latter institute internal reforms that allow free access to all information and dissent without death.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Unfortunately this is not a simple question, the situation is very complex and there is a long history there. Of course it would be great if both israelis and palestinians could come to a peace agreement and live side by side together in a unified nation but the likelihood of that is very small. In the end the groups will either end up killing one another for many many more years or eventually establishing separate states (mostly like mandated by an international body).

It is a complicated situation and no solution will go down easily for either side, but the central problem with finding the most equitable solution is that the Palestinian Arabs have systematically killed off any Arabs who advocated any realistic solution with Israel since 1967. Both Hamas and the PA have sought to control the news, the schools and the pulpits to send out the message that the only solution to the problem is victory over Israel. When al Jazeera published a few of the Palestine Papers a few months ago, we saw just how effective this half century campaign of censorship and assassination has been. Representatives of the PA who were reported to have even discussed compromise with Israeli were met with demands of banishment or death by the Palestinian Arabs and most of the rest of the Arab street. There can be no solution between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs until the latter institute internal reforms that allow free access to all information and dissent without death.

Peace is already laid out in international law and UN resolutions. There is no need to negotiate anything. The Palestinians have been asking for that for years.

Why isn't that happening? Who could object?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Unfortunately this is not a simple question, the situation is very complex and there is a long history there. Of course it would be great if both israelis and palestinians could come to a peace agreement and live side by side together in a unified nation but the likelihood of that is very small. In the end the groups will either end up killing one another for many many more years or eventually establishing separate states (mostly like mandated by an international body).

It is a complicated situation and no solution will go down easily for either side, but the central problem with finding the most equitable solution is that the Palestinian Arabs have systematically killed off any Arabs who advocated any realistic solution with Israel since 1967. Both Hamas and the PA have sought to control the news, the schools and the pulpits to send out the message that the only solution to the problem is victory over Israel. When al Jazeera published a few of the Palestine Papers a few months ago, we saw just how effective this half century campaign of censorship and assassination has been. Representatives of the PA who were reported to have even discussed compromise with Israeli were met with demands of banishment or death by the Palestinian Arabs and most of the rest of the Arab street. There can be no solution between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs until the latter institute internal reforms that allow free access to all information and dissent without death.

Peace is already laid out in international law and UN resolutions. There is no need to negotiate anything. The Palestinians have been asking for that for years.

Why isn't that happening? Who could object?

As I pointed out, but for the generations old campaign of censorship and assassination of dissenters among the Palestinian Arabs, a workable settlement between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs might already be in effect. As for peace between the two, there is no need to negotiate it because it already exists.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most everything up for negotiations is already covered by international law. Enforce the law and the problems would be solved.

 

[Barb]

23 people are concerned enough to vote on a robust forum such as this tells much. There's far more important things going on than a 58th Muslim country that will just kill all tolerance like all the other ones.

Tolerance?

Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick.

 

[Barb]

so....will the UN will eventually find them a country when they get around to it Alexa?

We don't need no steenking country; we belong to the universe, and the stars belong to us.

 

[Barb]

Israel's version of equal rights.

YouTube - ‪Israel leaves 200 children in the desert with No food No water and No shelter‬‏

Sarah.

 

[Barb]

Lets see...Jews or Muslims?

Well since Muslims suck!!! I will take the Jews anyday. (Especially if their name is Kinky Friedman).

Hypocrite much ??

Yesterday on another thread you said that you hated Easterners.

And we all know that you hate liberals.

Kinky is an eastern liberal who transplanted to Texas

He's originally from Rochester, New York.

Kinky's right about one right though...they're just not making Jews like Jesus anymore.

There are some. They don't get the press recognition or approbation though. There are doves in Israel, there are doves in the US. They aren't in power. This is true whatever the sympathy, nationality, race, or religion.

 

[editec]

I'm a citizen of the United States of America.

I stand behind THAT nation.

You?

 

[Barb]

I'm a citizen of the United States of America.

I stand behind THAT nation.

You?

Much like anyone else, I'm just passing through. While I'm here, I'd just as soon stick up for whoever is getting their teeth kicked down their throat in an unfair fight.

I'll never be rich, and it probably sucks to be my kids...but I like me. Its as good a way as any to go out.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Most everything up for negotiations is already covered by international law. Enforce the law and the problems would be solved.

Even if all the issues were covered by international law, which they are not, no one would be willing to expend the resources necessary to enforce that law if the two sides did not agree at least in principle to abide by them. This is why the ongoing campaigns of censorship and assassination among the Palestinian Arabs that has left the majority of Palestinian Arabs thinking the only solution is victory over Israel is the major obstacle to a settlement that would lead to a viable Palestinian state.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Most everything up for negotiations is already covered by international law. Enforce the law and the problems would be solved.

Even if all the issues were covered by international law, which they are not, no one would be willing to expend the resources necessary to enforce that law if the two sides did not agree at least in principle to abide by them. This is why the ongoing campaigns of censorship and assassination among the Palestinian Arabs that has left the majority of Palestinian Arabs thinking the only solution is victory over Israel is the major obstacle to a settlement that would lead to a viable Palestinian state.

Across the board, the Palestinians are in favor.

Israel is the only holdout.

 

[Ropey]

Can a two-state solution for Israel and the Palestinians succeed now that Hamas is aligned with the Palestinian Authority? That's the question I hoped to answer by reading the Hamas charter -- all 9,040 lunatic words of it.

The surprise came later. Freemasons, Rotarians and Lions Club members take note, you are Hamas enemies as well -- it's actually in their charter:

"The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion. It does not refrain from resorting to all methods, using all evil and contemptible ways to achieve its end. It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion."

Aside from the threat to Jews, Masons, Rotarians and Lions, the original question remains. Do we want a two-state solution for Israel if there's a Hamas component in it? The answer should be a resounding no. This isn't a case of trust but verify. This is a case of no trust at all.

It's clear what they want. Peace is not the words coming from their mouths. They use that word to attempt to get a stronger foothold for the above. Like it's not clear.

Greene-Hamas-no-benefit-two-state-solution

D'oh...

 

[docmauser1]

Peace is already laid out in international law and UN resolutions.

And what might those "international law" and UN resolutions be?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Never fear. There will be no reconcilliation.

BTW, that photo is from March 2007. They have not seen each other since.