Do you stand with Israel or Palestine?

[toomuchtime_]

I knew that. I just wanted to see how you would explain it. Essentially you are correct. While there was a moderate immigration of Arabs, the Zionists were importing Jews by the boatload in their quest to take over Palestine.

I read a report someplace (I didn't bookmark the link) that stated that the increase in the Arab population was due mostly to natural growth while the immigration was "insignificant" to use the word used in the report. When you start with 93% of the population natural growth can be a large number of people. When you start with 7% natural growth can be virtually nil. I calculated the population growth of the Arabs over a forty year period and it worked out to a little less than 1% per year.

I question the validity of the report you quoted because the numbers just do not add up.

This is getting silly. 93% of the population could mean that there were only 100 people living and 93 of them were Arabs. If 8 Arabs emigrated to Palestine for each Jew that did, as a percent of the total population would continue to fall despite the fact that their absolute numbers would be growing rapidly. I'm sure you already understand this.

In fact, according to the first report of the British to the League of Nations, the entire population of Palestine, including what would soon become Trans Jordan, was only about 700,000. Considering that Trans Jordan consumed 78% of Palestine, one might estimate the population west of the Jordan River was 22% of 700,000, 154,000. The report states that the Jewish population of Palestine was 76,000. Since nearly all the Jews lived in the western part of the Mandate, essentially what would become pre 1967 Israel, or in or around Jerusalem, it is not at all clear that the Arabs enjoyed much of a majority over the Jews in the area that would come to comprise pre 1967 Israel.

Considering that these early Zionists encouraged high birth rates and likely were able to afford better nutrition and medical care for their children than their Arab neighbors, one would expect that without immigration by natural growth alone Jews would soon come to outnumber Arabs in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel. Obviously, the stunning growth of the Arab population had to be due to massive immigration from the surrounding countries since by natural growth alone they would soon have become a minority in the area that would become pre 1967 Israel.

An Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine to the League of Nations, June 1921

From your link.

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions.

Of course all of this is relatively irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the indigenous Arab population in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel did not enjoy much if any numerical superiority over the Jewish population in 1921 and except for massive Arab immigration from the surrounding countries never would have. So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This is getting silly. 93% of the population could mean that there were only 100 people living and 93 of them were Arabs. If 8 Arabs emigrated to Palestine for each Jew that did, as a percent of the total population would continue to fall despite the fact that their absolute numbers would be growing rapidly. I'm sure you already understand this.

In fact, according to the first report of the British to the League of Nations, the entire population of Palestine, including what would soon become Trans Jordan, was only about 700,000. Considering that Trans Jordan consumed 78% of Palestine, one might estimate the population west of the Jordan River was 22% of 700,000, 154,000. The report states that the Jewish population of Palestine was 76,000. Since nearly all the Jews lived in the western part of the Mandate, essentially what would become pre 1967 Israel, or in or around Jerusalem, it is not at all clear that the Arabs enjoyed much of a majority over the Jews in the area that would come to comprise pre 1967 Israel.

Considering that these early Zionists encouraged high birth rates and likely were able to afford better nutrition and medical care for their children than their Arab neighbors, one would expect that without immigration by natural growth alone Jews would soon come to outnumber Arabs in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel. Obviously, the stunning growth of the Arab population had to be due to massive immigration from the surrounding countries since by natural growth alone they would soon have become a minority in the area that would become pre 1967 Israel.

An Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine to the League of Nations, June 1921

From your link.

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions.

Of course all of this is relatively irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the indigenous Arab population in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel did not enjoy much if any numerical superiority over the Jewish population in 1921 and except for massive Arab immigration from the surrounding countries never would have. So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

I think you are incorrect in your assessment. The Palestinian population was increasing in levels that are more consistent with natural growth than mass immigration.

 

[uscitizen]

I stand with neither Palestine nor Israel, I stand with the USA.

 

[toomuchtime_]

From your link.



Of course all of this is relatively irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the indigenous Arab population in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel did not enjoy much if any numerical superiority over the Jewish population in 1921 and except for massive Arab immigration from the surrounding countries never would have. So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

I think you are incorrect in your assessment. The Palestinian population was increasing in levels that are more consistent with natural growth than mass immigration.

You may want to believe so, but the facts show that there were about the same number of Arabs and Jews in the area that would become pre 1967 Israel in 1921, and the high birth rates of the early Zionists and the superior living conditions they enjoyed suggest the Jews in that area would have outnumbered the Arabs but for massive Arab immigration from the surrounding countries.

 

[alexa]

This is getting silly. 93% of the population could mean that there were only 100 people living and 93 of them were Arabs. If 8 Arabs emigrated to Palestine for each Jew that did, as a percent of the total population would continue to fall despite the fact that their absolute numbers would be growing rapidly. I'm sure you already understand this.

In fact, according to the first report of the British to the League of Nations, the entire population of Palestine, including what would soon become Trans Jordan, was only about 700,000. Considering that Trans Jordan consumed 78% of Palestine, one might estimate the population west of the Jordan River was 22% of 700,000, 154,000. The report states that the Jewish population of Palestine was 76,000. Since nearly all the Jews lived in the western part of the Mandate, essentially what would become pre 1967 Israel, or in or around Jerusalem, it is not at all clear that the Arabs enjoyed much of a majority over the Jews in the area that would come to comprise pre 1967 Israel.

Considering that these early Zionists encouraged high birth rates and likely were able to afford better nutrition and medical care for their children than their Arab neighbors, one would expect that without immigration by natural growth alone Jews would soon come to outnumber Arabs in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel. Obviously, the stunning growth of the Arab population had to be due to massive immigration from the surrounding countries since by natural growth alone they would soon have become a minority in the area that would become pre 1967 Israel.

An Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine to the League of Nations, June 1921

From your link.

There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives; they came to pray and to die in the Holy Land, and to be buried in its soil. After the persecutions in Russia forty years ago, the movement of the Jews to Palestine assumed larger proportions.

Of course all of this is relatively irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the indigenous Arab population in the area that would come to be pre 1967 Israel did not enjoy much if any numerical superiority over the Jewish population in 1921 and except for massive Arab immigration from the surrounding countries never would have. So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

No, I am afraid your hopes are not right. I know if you do a bit of reading of the British at the time you will find them speaking about the high birth rate of Palestinians...but don't take my word for it. Using Mid East Web, accepted and respected by Pro Israelis.

However, there is no hard evidence that more than 100,000 or 200,000 (out of about 1.3 million in all of Palestine, and about 7-800,000 in the area that was to become Israel in 1948) Palestinians had immigrated to the land that was to become Israel.
-snip-

It is certain that there was at least some illegal Palestinian-Arab immigration, as noted in British mandatory reports. Immigration from Transjordan was not illegal, and was not recorded as immigration at all until 1938. Beginning in the 1920s when they built Haifa port, and especially during and just prior to World War II, the British recruited Arab workers from the Houran in Syria and elsewhere. Arabs also came to Palestine before the war, attracted by higher wages. However, since much of the depletion of Palestinian population that had occurred in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries was due to migration to neighboring countries, many of these returning Arabs may have been families returning to Palestine.

MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

But really the proof of the pudding is in the genetic research results in 2010

Palestinians are genetically as close or closer to any modern Jewish population than are those Jewish populations to each other. In other words, genetic data is totally consistent with the idea that Palestinians are the direct descendants of ancient Jews who never left their ancestral land and who later converted to Christianity and to Islam (4, 5).

Raelianews: New studies show that Jews and Palestinians are both descendants of the ancient Jewish people

(If you take the time you can find the full report to this research. I cannot find the link at the moment)

 

[Free Thinker]

I am with all sane and rational people with wish to see a strong defensible Jewish State along side a separate defensible Palestinian State. Voting for only one side or the other is simple-minded child's play. Its the type of narrow-minded idiocy in which Sunni would engage.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

Meanwhile, however, a section of native opinion in Palestine was becoming disturbed as to the meaning of British policy. Welcoming release from Turkish misgovernment, anxious to accept the benefit of British assistance in securing an efficient administration, it was uneasy as to the implications of the Balfour Declaration. To instal the Jews in Palestine might mean the expulsion of the Arabs. If there were an unlimited Jewish immigration and finally a Jewish majority in the population, how could the safeguards embodied in the second half of the Declaration be enforced? The ownership by the Arabs of their lands and homes would be imperilled. The Moslem Holy Places, and particularly the Haram-esh-Sherif on Mount Moriah, might be taken from them. Quotations from the speeches and writings of Zionist leaders, which were said to justify these forebodings, were translated into Arabic and circulated by the press among the people. An organization was formed, with branches in many parts of the country, to combat the application of the Zionist policy. Individuals or groups, in Palestine or elsewhere, who had some interest in causing embarrassment to the Administration, stimulated the agitation. The wildest stories as to the intentions of the Jews and the fate awaiting the Arabs were circulated in the towns and villages, and were often believed by a credulous people. Among a section of the Arabs, who had all previously lived on excellent terms with the Jewish population, a bitter feeling was evoked against the Jews. It was fostered and developed until it culminated in a serious outbreak in the streets of Jerusalem in April, 1920, when a number of Jews were killed and wounded and Jewish shops were looted.

An Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine to the League of Nations, June 1921

There was a valid concern among the Palestinians that there country was being taken from them. And it turned out to be true.

 

[toomuchtime_]

So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

Meanwhile, however, a section of native opinion in Palestine was becoming disturbed as to the meaning of British policy. Welcoming release from Turkish misgovernment, anxious to accept the benefit of British assistance in securing an efficient administration, it was uneasy as to the implications of the Balfour Declaration. To instal the Jews in Palestine might mean the expulsion of the Arabs. If there were an unlimited Jewish immigration and finally a Jewish majority in the population, how could the safeguards embodied in the second half of the Declaration be enforced? The ownership by the Arabs of their lands and homes would be imperilled. The Moslem Holy Places, and particularly the Haram-esh-Sherif on Mount Moriah, might be taken from them. Quotations from the speeches and writings of Zionist leaders, which were said to justify these forebodings, were translated into Arabic and circulated by the press among the people. An organization was formed, with branches in many parts of the country, to combat the application of the Zionist policy. Individuals or groups, in Palestine or elsewhere, who had some interest in causing embarrassment to the Administration, stimulated the agitation. The wildest stories as to the intentions of the Jews and the fate awaiting the Arabs were circulated in the towns and villages, and were often believed by a credulous people. Among a section of the Arabs, who had all previously lived on excellent terms with the Jewish population, a bitter feeling was evoked against the Jews. It was fostered and developed until it culminated in a serious outbreak in the streets of Jerusalem in April, 1920, when a number of Jews were killed and wounded and Jewish shops were looted.

An Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine to the League of Nations, June 1921

There was a valid concern among the Palestinians that there country was being taken from them. And it turned out to be true.

As the quote makes clear, these concerns were based on false rumors about the intentions of the Jews that were spread by self seeking Arab politicians, so these concerns were not valid. At the time, there were about the same number of Jews and Arabs in the area that became pre 1967 Israel and neither group had ever controlled the land so neither could reasonably claim it might be taken from them. As we see in modern Israel, Arab citizens of the state enjoy the same rights and opportunities under the law as Jewish citizens, so as individuals, the Arabs would lose nothing by the creation of a Jewish state. What would be lost would be the opportunity to create an Arab/Muslim state there.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So there is no foundation in fact or logic to the argument that when the Arabs attacked Jews, they were simply defending their country against Jewish invaders, since nearly all the Arabs in that area were recent immigrants themselves.

Meanwhile, however, a section of native opinion in Palestine was becoming disturbed as to the meaning of British policy. Welcoming release from Turkish misgovernment, anxious to accept the benefit of British assistance in securing an efficient administration, it was uneasy as to the implications of the Balfour Declaration. To instal the Jews in Palestine might mean the expulsion of the Arabs. If there were an unlimited Jewish immigration and finally a Jewish majority in the population, how could the safeguards embodied in the second half of the Declaration be enforced? The ownership by the Arabs of their lands and homes would be imperilled. The Moslem Holy Places, and particularly the Haram-esh-Sherif on Mount Moriah, might be taken from them. Quotations from the speeches and writings of Zionist leaders, which were said to justify these forebodings, were translated into Arabic and circulated by the press among the people. An organization was formed, with branches in many parts of the country, to combat the application of the Zionist policy. Individuals or groups, in Palestine or elsewhere, who had some interest in causing embarrassment to the Administration, stimulated the agitation. The wildest stories as to the intentions of the Jews and the fate awaiting the Arabs were circulated in the towns and villages, and were often believed by a credulous people. Among a section of the Arabs, who had all previously lived on excellent terms with the Jewish population, a bitter feeling was evoked against the Jews. It was fostered and developed until it culminated in a serious outbreak in the streets of Jerusalem in April, 1920, when a number of Jews were killed and wounded and Jewish shops were looted.

An Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine to the League of Nations, June 1921

There was a valid concern among the Palestinians that there country was being taken from them. And it turned out to be true.

As the quote makes clear, these concerns were based on false rumors about the intentions of the Jews that were spread by self seeking Arab politicians, so these concerns were not valid. At the time, there were about the same number of Jews and Arabs in the area that became pre 1967 Israel and neither group had ever controlled the land so neither could reasonably claim it might be taken from them. As we see in modern Israel, Arab citizens of the state enjoy the same rights and opportunities under the law as Jewish citizens, so as individuals, the Arabs would lose nothing by the creation of a Jewish state. What would be lost would be the opportunity to create an Arab/Muslim state there.

The Balfour declaration.
The Zionists stated goal of taking over Palestine for a Jewish state.
The Mass Jewish immigration.
The Zionists creating a state within a state.
The military buildup.

It seems they had a hint as to what was happening.

 

[toomuchtime_]

There was a valid concern among the Palestinians that there country was being taken from them. And it turned out to be true.

As the quote makes clear, these concerns were based on false rumors about the intentions of the Jews that were spread by self seeking Arab politicians, so these concerns were not valid. At the time, there were about the same number of Jews and Arabs in the area that became pre 1967 Israel and neither group had ever controlled the land so neither could reasonably claim it might be taken from them. As we see in modern Israel, Arab citizens of the state enjoy the same rights and opportunities under the law as Jewish citizens, so as individuals, the Arabs would lose nothing by the creation of a Jewish state. What would be lost would be the opportunity to create an Arab/Muslim state there.

The Balfour declaration.
The Zionists stated goal of taking over Palestine for a Jewish state.
The Mass Jewish immigration.
The Zionists creating a state within a state.
The military buildup.

It seems they had a hint as to what was happening.

Apparently they didn't. The Jewish state that would be created afforded all the same rights, protections and opportunities to its Arab citizens that it did to its Jewish citizens. In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state, so as individuals and families, the Arabs in the area that would become Israel had nothing to lose and would gain rights, protections and opportunities that were and are unavailable to them in any other state in the region and in few other states in the world.

What would be lost would be the opportunity to create another Arab/Muslim state, but considering how Arab/Muslim states were and are governed and how poorly their citizens fare, while the creation of a Jewish state might represent a loss to some Arab politicians, it would be a net gain for individual Arabs and their families who chose to remain and become citizens.

 

[P F Tinmore]

As the quote makes clear, these concerns were based on false rumors about the intentions of the Jews that were spread by self seeking Arab politicians, so these concerns were not valid. At the time, there were about the same number of Jews and Arabs in the area that became pre 1967 Israel and neither group had ever controlled the land so neither could reasonably claim it might be taken from them. As we see in modern Israel, Arab citizens of the state enjoy the same rights and opportunities under the law as Jewish citizens, so as individuals, the Arabs would lose nothing by the creation of a Jewish state. What would be lost would be the opportunity to create an Arab/Muslim state there.

The Balfour declaration.
The Zionists stated goal of taking over Palestine for a Jewish state.
The Mass Jewish immigration.
The Zionists creating a state within a state.
The military buildup.

It seems they had a hint as to what was happening.

Apparently they didn't. The Jewish state that would be created afforded all the same rights, protections and opportunities to its Arab citizens that it did to its Jewish citizens. In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state, so as individuals and families, the Arabs in the area that would become Israel had nothing to lose and would gain rights, protections and opportunities that were and are unavailable to them in any other state in the region and in few other states in the world.

What would be lost would be the opportunity to create another Arab/Muslim state, but considering how Arab/Muslim states were and are governed and how poorly their citizens fare, while the creation of a Jewish state might represent a loss to some Arab politicians, it would be a net gain for individual Arabs and their families who chose to remain and become citizens.

In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state

Not true. Palestinian Christians and Jews have more rights in Palestine then do Muslims and Christians Israel.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Balfour declaration.
The Zionists stated goal of taking over Palestine for a Jewish state.
The Mass Jewish immigration.
The Zionists creating a state within a state.
The military buildup.

It seems they had a hint as to what was happening.

Apparently they didn't. The Jewish state that would be created afforded all the same rights, protections and opportunities to its Arab citizens that it did to its Jewish citizens. In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state, so as individuals and families, the Arabs in the area that would become Israel had nothing to lose and would gain rights, protections and opportunities that were and are unavailable to them in any other state in the region and in few other states in the world.

What would be lost would be the opportunity to create another Arab/Muslim state, but considering how Arab/Muslim states were and are governed and how poorly their citizens fare, while the creation of a Jewish state might represent a loss to some Arab politicians, it would be a net gain for individual Arabs and their families who chose to remain and become citizens.

In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state

Not true. Palestinian Christians and Jews have more rights in Palestine then do Muslims and Christians Israel.

That's simply not true. Israeli law forbids discrimination because of race, religion,ethnicity, etc., and the Israeli courts have been rigorous in enforcing this law when some politicians have tried to circumvent it. In Gaza or the West Bank, no one enjoys rights or protections under the law because the law is enforced or not enforced or even improvised according to the political needs of the party in power.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Apparently they didn't. The Jewish state that would be created afforded all the same rights, protections and opportunities to its Arab citizens that it did to its Jewish citizens. In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state, so as individuals and families, the Arabs in the area that would become Israel had nothing to lose and would gain rights, protections and opportunities that were and are unavailable to them in any other state in the region and in few other states in the world.

What would be lost would be the opportunity to create another Arab/Muslim state, but considering how Arab/Muslim states were and are governed and how poorly their citizens fare, while the creation of a Jewish state might represent a loss to some Arab politicians, it would be a net gain for individual Arabs and their families who chose to remain and become citizens.

In fact, Arab Israelis enjoy rights, protections and opportunities unmatched in any Arab state

Not true. Palestinian Christians and Jews have more rights in Palestine then do Muslims and Christians Israel.

That's simply not true. Israeli law forbids discrimination because of race, religion,ethnicity, etc., and the Israeli courts have been rigorous in enforcing this law when some politicians have tried to circumvent it. In Gaza or the West Bank, no one enjoys rights or protections under the law because the law is enforced or not enforced or even improvised according to the political needs of the party in power.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAj1Y80zdc4&feature=related]YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (1/2)‬‏[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxwzKlodrQ&feature=related]YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (2/2)‬‏[/ame]

 

[toomuchtime_]

Not true. Palestinian Christians and Jews have more rights in Palestine then do Muslims and Christians Israel.

That's simply not true. Israeli law forbids discrimination because of race, religion,ethnicity, etc., and the Israeli courts have been rigorous in enforcing this law when some politicians have tried to circumvent it. In Gaza or the West Bank, no one enjoys rights or protections under the law because the law is enforced or not enforced or even improvised according to the political needs of the party in power.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAj1Y80zdc4&feature=related]YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (1/2)‬‏[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxwzKlodrQ&feature=related]YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (2/2)‬‏[/ame]

I'm glad to see you've come to agree with me. If Zoabi lived in either Gaza or the West Bank and openly expressed views this critical of one of those governments, she would be lucky if she only went to prison instead of being executed as a collaborator, but in Israel she is free to speak her mind, no matter how offensive her speech is to the government or most Israelis, and to go on serving in the Knesset. This poor woman doesn't seem to realize how lucky she is to be an Arab Israeli instead of a Palestinian Arab living in the territories.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel's version of equal rights.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJJVWmBcDjU&feature=related]YouTube - ‪Israel leaves 200 children in the desert with No food No water and No shelter‬‏[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

That's simply not true. Israeli law forbids discrimination because of race, religion,ethnicity, etc., and the Israeli courts have been rigorous in enforcing this law when some politicians have tried to circumvent it. In Gaza or the West Bank, no one enjoys rights or protections under the law because the law is enforced or not enforced or even improvised according to the political needs of the party in power.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAj1Y80zdc4&feature=related]YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (1/2)‬‏[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxwzKlodrQ&feature=related]YouTube - ‪MK Haneen Zoabi exposes apartheid israel, dispels myth of zionite! (2/2)‬‏[/ame]

I'm glad to see you've come to agree with me. If Zoabi lived in either Gaza or the West Bank and openly expressed views this critical of one of those governments, she would be lucky if she only went to prison instead of being executed as a collaborator, but in Israel she is free to speak her mind, no matter how offensive her speech is to the government or most Israelis, and to go on serving in the Knesset. This poor woman doesn't seem to realize how lucky she is to be an Arab Israeli instead of a Palestinian Arab living in the territories.

Collaborators are complicit in murder. What should their sentence be?

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBUxZnHb2ig&feature=related]YouTube - ‪TRANSLATED Knesset Members Attack Haneen Zoabi After Free Gaza‬‏[/ame]

 

[Free Thinker]

I have traveled to the MiddleEast on many occasions. Each time it was abundantly clear that Israel was FAR more free and open than any of the surrounding countries. This was especially true with regard to those who were dissenters against the Israeli govt. All forms of protesters were allowed (as long as they did not use violent means). There are even Arab anti-Israel dissenters in the Israeli governing body. I personally met an Arab member of the Israeli Knesset. Syria would NEVER allow such wide-spread freedoms. The Arab dictators of the Middle East rule with iron fist.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel's version of equal rights.

YouTube - ‪Israel leaves 200 children in the desert with No food No water and No shelter‬‏

It is a good example of equal treatment for Jews and Arabs. In Israel, building permits are hard to come by. Even if you do everything right, it takes about two years to get a permit to build a new house. Jews and Arabs alike complain about the delays, but the government strictly enforces these laws for everyone.

 

[toomuchtime_]

YouTube - ‪TRANSLATED Knesset Members Attack Haneen Zoabi After Free Gaza‬‏

Israeli politics is a contact sport whether you are a Jew or an Arab. Again, if she lived in the West Bank or Gaza and was as critical of either of those governments as she is of the Israeli government and the Israeli Jews, she would likely have been executed as a collaborator by now.