Do You Believe We Came From Monkeys?

[Hollie]

There is the oft used idiom to:
make a monkey out of someone

It means to do something that makes someone seem stupid or ridiculous. It describes perfectly what has happened to the evos.

The only ways for evolutionists to turn a monkey into human are:

1. Combine ape fossil bones with human fossil bones and declare the two to be one individual—a real “apeman.”
2. Emphasize certain humanlike qualities of fossilized ape bones, and with imagination upgrade apes to be more humanlike.
3. Emphasize certain apelike qualities of fossilized human bones, and with imagination downgrade humans to be more apelike.

Don't let the evos make a monkey out of you.

When you cut and paste from the charlatans at Answers in Genesis, it immediately reduces your argument to irrelevant prattle.

It's absolutely true and observational science. All of the three have happened observing evolutionists and their fossil evidence.

1. Piltdown Man
2. Australopithicines.
3. Humans are apes claims.

Unfortunately, you are confused by terms such as “observational science”. That term doesn’t exist in the realm of ID / creationist ministries.

Hollie while your arguments were long-winded, at least they were arguments. Now, you've gone of the deep end stating that I am ID. I just blew away your previous post. AIG is a creation science website. For the upteenth time creation scientists have been systematically excluded by atheist science. Today's secular science is all wrong with long time of the earth and universe. They believe in lies of evolution. Even you admitted humans did not come from apes.

AIG predefines their conclusions with a commitment to dogma. They're not honest and they're not objective. Their "statement of faith" announces that. Fundamentalists such as those from AIG, would be expected to press an agenda that serves their religious dogma. There is no reason to expect either objectivity or honesty from creationists with regard to science. As I have shown you several times previously, it is with virtual exclusivity that creationism (defined by the organized anti-science, anti-evolution agenda), is a Christian fundamentalist endeavor.

As I've already identified for you, anyone can review the "about" section on any of the creationist websites to learn of their goals and attributes. How about a bit of honesty on your part. Identify for us the religious bias held by AIG, the ICR, CRS, etc.

And yes, I admitted humans did not come from apes. I also admit the earth is not flat, Noah did not live for 600 years, prayer will not cure disease and handling poisonous snakes is dangerous.

 

[james bond]

There is the oft used idiom to:
make a monkey out of someone

It means to do something that makes someone seem stupid or ridiculous. It describes perfectly what has happened to the evos.

The only ways for evolutionists to turn a monkey into human are:

1. Combine ape fossil bones with human fossil bones and declare the two to be one individual—a real “apeman.”
2. Emphasize certain humanlike qualities of fossilized ape bones, and with imagination upgrade apes to be more humanlike.
3. Emphasize certain apelike qualities of fossilized human bones, and with imagination downgrade humans to be more apelike.

Don't let the evos make a monkey out of you.

When you cut and paste from the charlatans at Answers in Genesis, it immediately reduces your argument to irrelevant prattle.

It's absolutely true and observational science. All of the three have happened observing evolutionists and their fossil evidence.

1. Piltdown Man
2. Australopithicines.
3. Humans are apes claims.

Unfortunately, you are confused by terms such as “observational science”. That term doesn’t exist in the realm of ID / creationist ministries.

Hollie while your arguments were long-winded, at least they were arguments. Now, you've gone of the deep end stating that I am ID. I just blew away your previous post. AIG is a creation science website. For the upteenth time creation scientists have been systematically excluded by atheist science. Today's secular science is all wrong with long time of the earth and universe. They believe in lies of evolution. Even you admitted humans did not come from apes.

AIG predefines their conclusions with a commitment to dogma. They're not honest and they're not objective. Their "statement of faith" announces that. Fundamentalists such as those from AIG, would be expected to press an agenda that serves their religious dogma. There is no reason to expect either objectivity or honesty from creationists with regard to science. As I have shown you several times previously, it is with virtual exclusivity that creationism (defined by the organized anti-science, anti-evolution agenda), is a Christian fundamentalist endeavor.

As I've already identified for you, anyone can review the "about" section on any of the creationist websites to learn of their goals and attributes. How about a bit of honesty on your part. Identify for us the religious bias held by AIG, the ICR, CRS, etc.

And yes, I admitted humans did not come from apes. I also admit the earth is not flat, Noah did not live for 600 years, prayer will not cure disease and handling poisonous snakes is dangerous.

HollieAIG predefines their conclusions with a commitment to dogma.[/quote]



I don't think it's a bias. It's a separate worldview from evolution in that it starts with creation from God instead of some mythological science. It's not religious, but based on science hypothesis in the bible. There are no observational evidence of origins from atheist scientists. OTOH creation science shows only life begats other life. There are many similar organisms because God re-used the same parts. Good design works that way in all parts of life.

I think creation science is more honest than atheist science. Atheist science is completely biased and do not take into account creation scientists' arguments while creation scientists take into account atheist scientists' arguments. In fact, the atheist scientists steal parts of the findings of creation scientists and give no credit since they have been excluded. I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

 

[Hollie]

When you cut and paste from the charlatans at Answers in Genesis, it immediately reduces your argument to irrelevant prattle.

It's absolutely true and observational science. All of the three have happened observing evolutionists and their fossil evidence.

1. Piltdown Man
2. Australopithicines.
3. Humans are apes claims.

Unfortunately, you are confused by terms such as “observational science”. That term doesn’t exist in the realm of ID / creationist ministries.

Hollie while your arguments were long-winded, at least they were arguments. Now, you've gone of the deep end stating that I am ID. I just blew away your previous post. AIG is a creation science website. For the upteenth time creation scientists have been systematically excluded by atheist science. Today's secular science is all wrong with long time of the earth and universe. They believe in lies of evolution. Even you admitted humans did not come from apes.

AIG predefines their conclusions with a commitment to dogma. They're not honest and they're not objective. Their "statement of faith" announces that. Fundamentalists such as those from AIG, would be expected to press an agenda that serves their religious dogma. There is no reason to expect either objectivity or honesty from creationists with regard to science. As I have shown you several times previously, it is with virtual exclusivity that creationism (defined by the organized anti-science, anti-evolution agenda), is a Christian fundamentalist endeavor.

As I've already identified for you, anyone can review the "about" section on any of the creationist websites to learn of their goals and attributes. How about a bit of honesty on your part. Identify for us the religious bias held by AIG, the ICR, CRS, etc.

And yes, I admitted humans did not come from apes. I also admit the earth is not flat, Noah did not live for 600 years, prayer will not cure disease and handling poisonous snakes is dangerous.

HollieAIG predefines their conclusions with a commitment to dogma.

I don't think it's a bias. It's a separate worldview from evolution in that it starts with creation from God instead of some mythological science. It's not religious, but based on science hypothesis in the bible. There are no observational evidence of origins from atheist scientists. OTOH creation science shows only life begats other life. There are many similar organisms because God re-used the same parts. Good design works that way in all parts of life.

I think creation science is more honest than atheist science. Atheist science is completely biased and do not take into account creation scientists' arguments while creation scientists take into account atheist scientists' arguments. In fact, the atheist scientists steal parts of the findings of creation scientists and give no credit since they have been excluded. I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.[/QUOTE]







It’s a simple matter to look at websites such as AiG and spot the fraud. They simply make up nonsense as they go. ID/creationism is founded on fraudulent assumptions that the various bibles are absolutely true, basic misconceptions of bible stories and misrepresentations of science. None of the charlatans who promote these sites wants to know anything about science because they are convinced that by remaining ignorant of science, their ID/creationist arguments are valid alternatives.

It’s important to understand the bias that AIG (and ID/creationist) charlatans holds.

From the "Statement of Faith" section on their website
Section 1: Priorities
The scientific aspects of creation are important but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer, and Judge.

The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Section 2: Basics
The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.

Remember, this is the organization fronted by Ken Ham who is the "Creation Museum" fraudster.

Yes, the "Creation Museum" where Ken Ham would have you believe that humans in buckskin outfits shared the planet with dinosaurs.


Behind the Scenes at the Creation “Museum”

Behind the Scenes at the Creation "Museum" - The Panda's Thumb

One of the Creation “Museum’s” more ridiculous claims is that dinosaurs and other Mesozoic animals survived Noah’s Flood via the Ark and lived until historical times, when they became known as fire-breathing dragons and other mythological creatures. Recently the Creation Museum put up various billboards of dinosaurs around the country and included one of a fire-breathing dragon. The image is now sold on T-shirts in the Creation “Museum’s” bookstore. Additionally, they sell an assortment of dragon and knight figures as toys in the bookstore, which has a dragon theme with a faux medieval look to it. Apparently this fantasy is being passed along to children and their parents by the “museum.” Obviously Answers in Genesis has not thought through the idea of putting fire-breathing animals on a wooden boat. Perhaps they need to tell everyone that Noah owned an asbestos mine.

There’s nothing “honest” about ID/creationism because ID/creationists willingly announce their intention to commit a fraud.

On the other hand, I have no faith at all in evolution. (I also have no faith in algebra, chemistry or astronomy). Evolution either stands or falls by the strength of the evidence used to substantiate it. Evolutionary biology relies on factual data, physical evidence, molecular experimentation, and it goes hand in hand with geology. I am constantly thinking critically about evolution, going over the evidence, and continually reaching the same conclusion.

Evolution is based on observational evidence. This is different from creationism, which selectively uses evidence to support its position. In other words, evolution comes from evidence, while creationism uses evidence to support an unverifiable, pre-existing source (the bibles).

ID/Creationism is not science, because it relies completely on miraculous interventions (the flood and the creation itself, not to mention just about all the rest of the book)-- things that cannot be used in the formulation of a scientific theory. Since miraculous events cannot be tested, repeated, nor can the processes by which they operate be described, they must be taken on faith. Creationism is an expression of religious belief-- not science. There is a huge difference.

The fact that all species alive today have descended from a common ancestor can be denied, but not refuted. We know it happens because we can observe it directly in short-lived species, and for longer lived species there is genetic and fossil evidence that is unambiguous. There is no other scientific explanation for the diversity of living species. Creationism IS NOT a scientific explanation-- it is a religious one, and a religious explanation is not interchangeable with a scientific one.



james bond said: ↑
I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

On the other hand, I believe the gawds will come down very harshly on those who make the jeebus a mafia thug who you folks use to make threats, capise?

 

[RWS]

When you cut and paste from the charlatans at Answers in Genesis, it immediately reduces your argument to irrelevant prattle.

Every single one of his points (that he doesn't even understand...go on, test him, he falls right on his face every time even when tasked with exaining his plagiarized points) is plagiarized from a creationist nutball blog.

Every single one. You can literally copy paste his plagiarized content into Google and find precisely the blog entry which he has plagiarized.

I

When you cut and paste from the charlatans at Answers in Genesis, it immediately reduces your argument to irrelevant prattle.

Every single one of his points (that he doesn't even understand...go on, test him, he falls right on his face every time even when tasked with exaining his plagiarized points) is plagiarized from a creationist nutball blog.

Every single one. You can literally copy paste his plagiarized content into Google and find precisely the blog entry which he has plagiarized.

Before, you were claiming I used creation.com but you were wrong as usual. At least, you now know I use AIG and ICR. I've said it before many times, LCD.

More like LSD....

 

[RWS]

.

I think creation science is more honest than atheist science. Atheist science is completely biased and do not take into account creation scientists' arguments while creation scientists take into account atheist scientists' arguments. In fact, the atheist scientists steal parts of the findings of creation scientists and give no credit since they have been excluded. I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

Creation "science" was created by the most radical, dishonest, wicked, and evil people, that only care about keeping their coffers full, regardless of the atrocities they commit.

They make people believe their shit, to keep them rich, fat, and wealthy. And they make things up out of thin air, to keep people believing (and donating) in the face of scientific and historical discoveries that disprove them.

 

[RWS]

Bond, do you realize you're a tool?

 

[RWS]

You can still get safely out of your religion.

And still have an afterlife. Don't worry about it...

You don't need your religion for an afterlife... Because if there is one, and you're altruistic, you'll be there regardless.

And if there isn't, you still did the best you can to promote happiness and goodness. Which helps people remember you forever.

 

[RWS]

Blindly following religions will lead you down the wrong path.

Have faith in your personal goodness, use wisdom, and always do the right thing to help people.

Dismiss those who want to turn your faith in yourself into evil.

 

[RWS]

RWS Ha ha. You need to take a reading class to improve your comprehension. There was no split because there was no chimp-gorilla hybrid. In fact, there was no 7 million years ago.

Catastrophism jumbled it all. We find auto parts in layers supposedly millions of years old. You may as well go to sleep, RWS, your science is badly outdated.

Claims of evidence of earliest fossils on Earth face scrutiny

I just read this one... Wow... Dude you need an intervention before you hurt yourself!

Dinosaurs came before cars. Chimps and Gorillas never inter-mingled. There was such a thing as 7 million years ago.

I think your religion is badly outdated. Don't let them make you deny the past so that you can make them richer in the present. You're not doing anything good for humanity by blindly following and repeating such nonsense.

You want to make the afterlife? If there is one? Start by dropping the make-believe stuff that makes people want to hurt other people. You are completely enveloped in a scam called "religion". And you can still get out if you want to. There's a lot more to life than hatred.

 

[james bond]

Hollie I am afraid this is what real science has come down to. The lying atheist scientist cowards have sytematically eliminated their opposition, creation scientists, from the science realm. This is not science. Science has always been about disagreements and the best hypothesis (hypotheticals) were the ones that became theories. Today, we just have biased and fake science.

The real science are argued about on by scientists and lay people on forums like this. It used to be done with scientific papers on science forums for all, but no more. Believers and non-believers argue science on a forum. I thank usmessageboard.com for providing this forum.

 

[james bond]

It’s a simple matter to look at websites such as AiG and spot the fraud. They simply make up nonsense as they go. ID/creationism is founded on fraudulent assumptions that the various bibles are absolutely true, basic misconceptions of bible stories and misrepresentations of science. None of the charlatans who promote these sites wants to know anything about science because they are convinced that by remaining ignorant of science, their ID/creationist arguments are valid alternatives.

It’s important to understand the bias that AIG (and ID/creationist) charlatans holds.

From the "Statement of Faith" section on their website
Section 1: Priorities
The scientific aspects of creation are important but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer, and Judge.

The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Section 2: Basics
The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.

Remember, this is the organization fronted by Ken Ham who is the "Creation Museum" fraudster.

Yes, the "Creation Museum" where Ken Ham would have you believe that humans in buckskin outfits shared the planet with dinosaurs.


Behind the Scenes at the Creation “Museum”

Behind the Scenes at the Creation "Museum" - The Panda's Thumb

One of the Creation “Museum’s” more ridiculous claims is that dinosaurs and other Mesozoic animals survived Noah’s Flood via the Ark and lived until historical times, when they became known as fire-breathing dragons and other mythological creatures. Recently the Creation Museum put up various billboards of dinosaurs around the country and included one of a fire-breathing dragon. The image is now sold on T-shirts in the Creation “Museum’s” bookstore. Additionally, they sell an assortment of dragon and knight figures as toys in the bookstore, which has a dragon theme with a faux medieval look to it. Apparently this fantasy is being passed along to children and their parents by the “museum.” Obviously Answers in Genesis has not thought through the idea of putting fire-breathing animals on a wooden boat. Perhaps they need to tell everyone that Noah owned an asbestos mine.

There’s nothing “honest” about ID/creationism because ID/creationists willingly announce their intention to commit a fraud.

On the other hand, I have no faith at all in evolution. (I also have no faith in algebra, chemistry or astronomy). Evolution either stands or falls by the strength of the evidence used to substantiate it. Evolutionary biology relies on factual data, physical evidence, molecular experimentation, and it goes hand in hand with geology. I am constantly thinking critically about evolution, going over the evidence, and continually reaching the same conclusion.

Evolution is based on observational evidence. This is different from creationism, which selectively uses evidence to support its position. In other words, evolution comes from evidence, while creationism uses evidence to support an unverifiable, pre-existing source (the bibles).

ID/Creationism is not science, because it relies completely on miraculous interventions (the flood and the creation itself, not to mention just about all the rest of the book)-- things that cannot be used in the formulation of a scientific theory. Since miraculous events cannot be tested, repeated, nor can the processes by which they operate be described, they must be taken on faith. Creationism is an expression of religious belief-- not science. There is a huge difference.

The fact that all species alive today have descended from a common ancestor can be denied, but not refuted. We know it happens because we can observe it directly in short-lived species, and for longer lived species there is genetic and fossil evidence that is unambiguous. There is no other scientific explanation for the diversity of living species. Creationism IS NOT a scientific explanation-- it is a religious one, and a religious explanation is not interchangeable with a scientific one.

james bond said: ↑
I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

On the other hand, I believe the gawds will come down very harshly on those who make the jeebus a mafia thug who you folks use to make threats, capise?

How can Ken Ham be a fraudster when he spells it out for you in black and white? It shows that creation science is not ID. It starts from our worldview. Creation science is based on the God hypothesis and what God said in the bible. He's the creator and witness. Atheist scientists base their worldview on Darwin and his Origin of Species book. We know now that Darwin was practically wrong about all his hypothesis while God and bible hypothesis hasn't been proven wrong yet. That's why I am here to tell people that creation science is the real science while atheist science and evolution is fake and based on wrong assumptions, biased science and lies.

ETA: If you want to argue about dinosaurs and humans, birds from dinosaurs or both, then start a new thread. It's beyond the scope of this one. Or do you not back up what you wrote?

 

[Hollie]

It’s a simple matter to look at websites such as AiG and spot the fraud. They simply make up nonsense as they go. ID/creationism is founded on fraudulent assumptions that the various bibles are absolutely true, basic misconceptions of bible stories and misrepresentations of science. None of the charlatans who promote these sites wants to know anything about science because they are convinced that by remaining ignorant of science, their ID/creationist arguments are valid alternatives.

It’s important to understand the bias that AIG (and ID/creationist) charlatans holds.

From the "Statement of Faith" section on their website
Section 1: Priorities
The scientific aspects of creation are important but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer, and Judge.

The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Section 2: Basics
The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.

Remember, this is the organization fronted by Ken Ham who is the "Creation Museum" fraudster.

Yes, the "Creation Museum" where Ken Ham would have you believe that humans in buckskin outfits shared the planet with dinosaurs.


Behind the Scenes at the Creation “Museum”

Behind the Scenes at the Creation "Museum" - The Panda's Thumb

One of the Creation “Museum’s” more ridiculous claims is that dinosaurs and other Mesozoic animals survived Noah’s Flood via the Ark and lived until historical times, when they became known as fire-breathing dragons and other mythological creatures. Recently the Creation Museum put up various billboards of dinosaurs around the country and included one of a fire-breathing dragon. The image is now sold on T-shirts in the Creation “Museum’s” bookstore. Additionally, they sell an assortment of dragon and knight figures as toys in the bookstore, which has a dragon theme with a faux medieval look to it. Apparently this fantasy is being passed along to children and their parents by the “museum.” Obviously Answers in Genesis has not thought through the idea of putting fire-breathing animals on a wooden boat. Perhaps they need to tell everyone that Noah owned an asbestos mine.

There’s nothing “honest” about ID/creationism because ID/creationists willingly announce their intention to commit a fraud.

On the other hand, I have no faith at all in evolution. (I also have no faith in algebra, chemistry or astronomy). Evolution either stands or falls by the strength of the evidence used to substantiate it. Evolutionary biology relies on factual data, physical evidence, molecular experimentation, and it goes hand in hand with geology. I am constantly thinking critically about evolution, going over the evidence, and continually reaching the same conclusion.

Evolution is based on observational evidence. This is different from creationism, which selectively uses evidence to support its position. In other words, evolution comes from evidence, while creationism uses evidence to support an unverifiable, pre-existing source (the bibles).

ID/Creationism is not science, because it relies completely on miraculous interventions (the flood and the creation itself, not to mention just about all the rest of the book)-- things that cannot be used in the formulation of a scientific theory. Since miraculous events cannot be tested, repeated, nor can the processes by which they operate be described, they must be taken on faith. Creationism is an expression of religious belief-- not science. There is a huge difference.

The fact that all species alive today have descended from a common ancestor can be denied, but not refuted. We know it happens because we can observe it directly in short-lived species, and for longer lived species there is genetic and fossil evidence that is unambiguous. There is no other scientific explanation for the diversity of living species. Creationism IS NOT a scientific explanation-- it is a religious one, and a religious explanation is not interchangeable with a scientific one.

james bond said: ↑
I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

On the other hand, I believe the gawds will come down very harshly on those who make the jeebus a mafia thug who you folks use to make threats, capise?

How can Ken Ham be a fraudster when he spells it out for you in black and white? It shows that creation science is not ID. It starts from our worldview. Creation science is based on the God hypothesis and what God said in the bible. He's the creator and witness. Atheist scientists base their worldview on Darwin and his Origin of Species book. We know now that Darwin was practically wrong about all his hypothesis while God and bible hypothesis hasn't been proven wrong yet. That's why I am here to tell people that creation science is the real science while atheist science and evolution is fake and based on wrong assumptions, biased science and lies.

ETA: If you want to argue about dinosaurs and humans, birds from dinosaurs or both, then start a new thread. It's beyond the scope of this one. Or do you not back up what you wrote?

I can understand your revulsion for science and knowledge will be offended by reason and rationality, but Ken Ham is a danger to himself and others.


Paleontologists brought to tears, laughter by Creation Museum

For a group of paleontologists, a tour of the Creation Museum seemed like a great tongue-in-cheek way to cap off a serious conference.

But while there were a few laughs and some clowning for the camera, most left more offended than amused by the frightening way in which evolution -- and their life's work -- was attacked.

"It's sort of a monument to scientific illiteracy, isn't it?" said Jerry Lipps, professor of geology, paleontology and evolution at University of California, Berkeley.

"Like Sunday school with statues... this is a special brand of religion here. I don't think even most mainstream Christians would believe in this interpretation of Earth's history."


I do find it interesting that you identify your gods as "he". You attribute thoroughly human attributes to a thoroughly human invention. That's not surprising since as a human construct, humans will add their familial and social conventions to their gods. That has been the case with all the gods which have "existed" before your gods.

And yes, for those who believe the nonsense further by Ken Ham and his abomination called the " creation museum" , we are forced to come to conclusions about those who believe in a literal 6,000 year old earth and humans frolicking with dinosaurs.

 

[james bond]

It’s a simple matter to look at websites such as AiG and spot the fraud. They simply make up nonsense as they go. ID/creationism is founded on fraudulent assumptions that the various bibles are absolutely true, basic misconceptions of bible stories and misrepresentations of science. None of the charlatans who promote these sites wants to know anything about science because they are convinced that by remaining ignorant of science, their ID/creationist arguments are valid alternatives.

It’s important to understand the bias that AIG (and ID/creationist) charlatans holds.

From the "Statement of Faith" section on their website
Section 1: Priorities
The scientific aspects of creation are important but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer, and Judge.

The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Section 2: Basics
The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.

Remember, this is the organization fronted by Ken Ham who is the "Creation Museum" fraudster.

Yes, the "Creation Museum" where Ken Ham would have you believe that humans in buckskin outfits shared the planet with dinosaurs.


Behind the Scenes at the Creation “Museum”

Behind the Scenes at the Creation "Museum" - The Panda's Thumb

One of the Creation “Museum’s” more ridiculous claims is that dinosaurs and other Mesozoic animals survived Noah’s Flood via the Ark and lived until historical times, when they became known as fire-breathing dragons and other mythological creatures. Recently the Creation Museum put up various billboards of dinosaurs around the country and included one of a fire-breathing dragon. The image is now sold on T-shirts in the Creation “Museum’s” bookstore. Additionally, they sell an assortment of dragon and knight figures as toys in the bookstore, which has a dragon theme with a faux medieval look to it. Apparently this fantasy is being passed along to children and their parents by the “museum.” Obviously Answers in Genesis has not thought through the idea of putting fire-breathing animals on a wooden boat. Perhaps they need to tell everyone that Noah owned an asbestos mine.

There’s nothing “honest” about ID/creationism because ID/creationists willingly announce their intention to commit a fraud.

On the other hand, I have no faith at all in evolution. (I also have no faith in algebra, chemistry or astronomy). Evolution either stands or falls by the strength of the evidence used to substantiate it. Evolutionary biology relies on factual data, physical evidence, molecular experimentation, and it goes hand in hand with geology. I am constantly thinking critically about evolution, going over the evidence, and continually reaching the same conclusion.

Evolution is based on observational evidence. This is different from creationism, which selectively uses evidence to support its position. In other words, evolution comes from evidence, while creationism uses evidence to support an unverifiable, pre-existing source (the bibles).

ID/Creationism is not science, because it relies completely on miraculous interventions (the flood and the creation itself, not to mention just about all the rest of the book)-- things that cannot be used in the formulation of a scientific theory. Since miraculous events cannot be tested, repeated, nor can the processes by which they operate be described, they must be taken on faith. Creationism is an expression of religious belief-- not science. There is a huge difference.

The fact that all species alive today have descended from a common ancestor can be denied, but not refuted. We know it happens because we can observe it directly in short-lived species, and for longer lived species there is genetic and fossil evidence that is unambiguous. There is no other scientific explanation for the diversity of living species. Creationism IS NOT a scientific explanation-- it is a religious one, and a religious explanation is not interchangeable with a scientific one.

james bond said: ↑
I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

On the other hand, I believe the gawds will come down very harshly on those who make the jeebus a mafia thug who you folks use to make threats, capise?

How can Ken Ham be a fraudster when he spells it out for you in black and white? It shows that creation science is not ID. It starts from our worldview. Creation science is based on the God hypothesis and what God said in the bible. He's the creator and witness. Atheist scientists base their worldview on Darwin and his Origin of Species book. We know now that Darwin was practically wrong about all his hypothesis while God and bible hypothesis hasn't been proven wrong yet. That's why I am here to tell people that creation science is the real science while atheist science and evolution is fake and based on wrong assumptions, biased science and lies.

ETA: If you want to argue about dinosaurs and humans, birds from dinosaurs or both, then start a new thread. It's beyond the scope of this one. Or do you not back up what you wrote?

I can understand your revulsion for science and knowledge will be offended by reason and rationality, but Ken Ham is a danger to himself and others.


Paleontologists brought to tears, laughter by Creation Museum

For a group of paleontologists, a tour of the Creation Museum seemed like a great tongue-in-cheek way to cap off a serious conference.

But while there were a few laughs and some clowning for the camera, most left more offended than amused by the frightening way in which evolution -- and their life's work -- was attacked.

"It's sort of a monument to scientific illiteracy, isn't it?" said Jerry Lipps, professor of geology, paleontology and evolution at University of California, Berkeley.

"Like Sunday school with statues... this is a special brand of religion here. I don't think even most mainstream Christians would believe in this interpretation of Earth's history."


I do find it interesting that you identify your gods as "he". You attribute thoroughly human attributes to a thoroughly human invention. That's not surprising since as a human construct, humans will add their familial and social conventions to their gods. That has been the case with all the gods which have "existed" before your gods.

And yes, for those who believe the nonsense further by Ken Ham and his abomination called the " creation museum" , we are forced to come to conclusions about those who believe in a literal 6,000 year old earth and humans frolicking with dinosaurs.

Whoever wrote that article does not know what they are talking about. It's good that they left frightened because they do not have any rebuttals to real science. Today, secular scientists do not face criticism over evolution from their peers. They dismiss it for the same reasons as those in the article.

Creation and catastrophism was what scientists believed in before the 1850s when uniformitarianism and Darwinism took over. When I go to a museum and see exhibits on evolution, it's like going to fantasy, sci-fi or mythological museum. Most of it isn't true. It's mostly connect the dots science and science tautology (circular thinking). The evos have outsmarted themselves.

What we know is Darwinism led to social Darwinism and eugenics. It led to the mass slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust. We still have Planned Parenthood which is a group behind the genocide of African Americans.

This is what science has come down to because secular scientists will not have to face the creation scientists' arguments against evolution and billions of years old earth. The real scientific arguments are made separately by creation scientists in their own research and museums and arguments presented in open forums such as this. You are not going to get formal papers in Nature, Science and other of today's scientific publications to argue against billions of years, ToE and evolutionary thinking.

The only common ground we have is natural selection or changes in species through hybridization or environmental changes. Even then creation scientists believe in rapid changes for species.

There is no macroevolution of species such as humans from monkeys or birds from dinosaurs. That's an invention of the atheist scientists' imagination. Macroevolution involves mutation and mutation is the loss of information. It can't evolve new species. To the contrary, it devolves them. It's follows the law of entropy.

 

[Hollie]

It’s a simple matter to look at websites such as AiG and spot the fraud. They simply make up nonsense as they go. ID/creationism is founded on fraudulent assumptions that the various bibles are absolutely true, basic misconceptions of bible stories and misrepresentations of science. None of the charlatans who promote these sites wants to know anything about science because they are convinced that by remaining ignorant of science, their ID/creationist arguments are valid alternatives.

It’s important to understand the bias that AIG (and ID/creationist) charlatans holds.

From the "Statement of Faith" section on their website
Section 1: Priorities
The scientific aspects of creation are important but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer, and Judge.

The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Section 2: Basics
The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.

Remember, this is the organization fronted by Ken Ham who is the "Creation Museum" fraudster.

Yes, the "Creation Museum" where Ken Ham would have you believe that humans in buckskin outfits shared the planet with dinosaurs.


Behind the Scenes at the Creation “Museum”

Behind the Scenes at the Creation "Museum" - The Panda's Thumb

One of the Creation “Museum’s” more ridiculous claims is that dinosaurs and other Mesozoic animals survived Noah’s Flood via the Ark and lived until historical times, when they became known as fire-breathing dragons and other mythological creatures. Recently the Creation Museum put up various billboards of dinosaurs around the country and included one of a fire-breathing dragon. The image is now sold on T-shirts in the Creation “Museum’s” bookstore. Additionally, they sell an assortment of dragon and knight figures as toys in the bookstore, which has a dragon theme with a faux medieval look to it. Apparently this fantasy is being passed along to children and their parents by the “museum.” Obviously Answers in Genesis has not thought through the idea of putting fire-breathing animals on a wooden boat. Perhaps they need to tell everyone that Noah owned an asbestos mine.

There’s nothing “honest” about ID/creationism because ID/creationists willingly announce their intention to commit a fraud.

On the other hand, I have no faith at all in evolution. (I also have no faith in algebra, chemistry or astronomy). Evolution either stands or falls by the strength of the evidence used to substantiate it. Evolutionary biology relies on factual data, physical evidence, molecular experimentation, and it goes hand in hand with geology. I am constantly thinking critically about evolution, going over the evidence, and continually reaching the same conclusion.

Evolution is based on observational evidence. This is different from creationism, which selectively uses evidence to support its position. In other words, evolution comes from evidence, while creationism uses evidence to support an unverifiable, pre-existing source (the bibles).

ID/Creationism is not science, because it relies completely on miraculous interventions (the flood and the creation itself, not to mention just about all the rest of the book)-- things that cannot be used in the formulation of a scientific theory. Since miraculous events cannot be tested, repeated, nor can the processes by which they operate be described, they must be taken on faith. Creationism is an expression of religious belief-- not science. There is a huge difference.

The fact that all species alive today have descended from a common ancestor can be denied, but not refuted. We know it happens because we can observe it directly in short-lived species, and for longer lived species there is genetic and fossil evidence that is unambiguous. There is no other scientific explanation for the diversity of living species. Creationism IS NOT a scientific explanation-- it is a religious one, and a religious explanation is not interchangeable with a scientific one.

james bond said: ↑
I believe Jesus will come down very harshly on atheist scientists and they will suffer gravely for their lies and sins.

On the other hand, I believe the gawds will come down very harshly on those who make the jeebus a mafia thug who you folks use to make threats, capise?

How can Ken Ham be a fraudster when he spells it out for you in black and white? It shows that creation science is not ID. It starts from our worldview. Creation science is based on the God hypothesis and what God said in the bible. He's the creator and witness. Atheist scientists base their worldview on Darwin and his Origin of Species book. We know now that Darwin was practically wrong about all his hypothesis while God and bible hypothesis hasn't been proven wrong yet. That's why I am here to tell people that creation science is the real science while atheist science and evolution is fake and based on wrong assumptions, biased science and lies.

ETA: If you want to argue about dinosaurs and humans, birds from dinosaurs or both, then start a new thread. It's beyond the scope of this one. Or do you not back up what you wrote?

I can understand your revulsion for science and knowledge will be offended by reason and rationality, but Ken Ham is a danger to himself and others.


Paleontologists brought to tears, laughter by Creation Museum

For a group of paleontologists, a tour of the Creation Museum seemed like a great tongue-in-cheek way to cap off a serious conference.

But while there were a few laughs and some clowning for the camera, most left more offended than amused by the frightening way in which evolution -- and their life's work -- was attacked.

"It's sort of a monument to scientific illiteracy, isn't it?" said Jerry Lipps, professor of geology, paleontology and evolution at University of California, Berkeley.

"Like Sunday school with statues... this is a special brand of religion here. I don't think even most mainstream Christians would believe in this interpretation of Earth's history."


I do find it interesting that you identify your gods as "he". You attribute thoroughly human attributes to a thoroughly human invention. That's not surprising since as a human construct, humans will add their familial and social conventions to their gods. That has been the case with all the gods which have "existed" before your gods.

And yes, for those who believe the nonsense further by Ken Ham and his abomination called the " creation museum" , we are forced to come to conclusions about those who believe in a literal 6,000 year old earth and humans frolicking with dinosaurs.

Whoever wrote that article does not know what they are talking about. It's good that they left frightened because they do not have any rebuttals to real science. Today, secular scientists do not face criticism over evolution from their peers. They dismiss it for the same reasons as those in the article.

Creation and catastrophism was what scientists believed in before the 1850s when uniformitarianism and Darwinism took over. When I go to a museum and see exhibits on evolution, it's like going to fantasy, sci-fi or mythological museum. Most of it isn't true. It's mostly connect the dots science and science tautology (circular thinking). The evos have outsmarted themselves.

What we know is Darwinism led to social Darwinism and eugenics. It led to the mass slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust. We still have Planned Parenthood which is a group behind the genocide of African Americans.

This is what science has come down to because secular scientists will not have to face the creation scientists' arguments against evolution and billions of years old earth. The real scientific arguments are made separately by creation scientists in their own research and museums and arguments presented in open forums such as this. You are not going to get formal papers in Nature, Science and other of today's scientific publications to argue against billions of years, ToE and evolutionary thinking.

The only common ground we have is natural selection or changes in species through hybridization or environmental changes. Even then creation scientists believe in rapid changes for species.

There is no macroevolution of species such as humans from monkeys or birds from dinosaurs. That's an invention of the atheist scientists' imagination. Macroevolution involves mutation and mutation is the loss of information. It can't evolve new species. To the contrary, it devolves them. It's follows the law of entropy.

Actually, the writers of the article were scientists who are a part of the relevant science community.

One of the bodies of the relevant science community took a tour of the Ken Ham abomination and they weren’t real kind to the farce that is the creation museum.

https://ncse.com/library-resource/visit-to-new-creation-museum

Of course you’re wrong about secular scientists (as opposed to fundamentalist hacks) facing criticism. Peer review is the process by which scientists (as opposed to fundamentalist hacks), present their criticism.

What is truly laughable about ID/creationists is the lack of any affirmative description of what “creationist doctrine” really is, other than mindless reiteration of biblical tales. As an example, nowhere in the creationist ministry literature is there an explanation of how one or more of the gods achieved their “creation”. There is no doctrinal literature such as "The Creation Scenario is described as..." Similarly, there is no literature to be found with the phrase: "The Creator gods used the following means, methods and creative processes in making living organisms..." And ultimately, we will never hear the creation ministries announce: "We have just published evidence in peer reviewed scientific journal of physical evidence which reveals the means and methods by which the various creator gods established life on this planet." Instead, all we get is simpleton creationist drivel that supernatural means and magic define the gods.

ID/Creationists can offer no explanations of how life developed on the planet. They have found no physical evidence for any of their gods. Very simply, creationism is nothing more than a window dressing for fundamentalist christianity.


In large part, fear and superstition is what scientists believed in before the 1850s. In a very real sense, it was the Christian church which fostered the promotion of fear and superstition.

Origin of Species accomplished two very different things.

First off, it demonstrated through a tour de force of scientific detail the historical fact of evolution (keep in mind the difference between facts and the theories that explain them). Using fields as diverse as comparative anatomy, selective breeding, biogeography and animal behavior, he laid out the factual case that descent with modification (evolution) had actually occurred.

His evidence was so overwhelming that almost every major biologist of his day became convinced within the decade that evolution (the fact) was true.

Secondly, it proposed a theory for explaining this fact; “Natural Selection.” Contrary to your false characterization of it as being “through coincidence,” Natural Selection abhors coincidence completely and instead proposes the objective criterion of “reproductive fitness” as the engine for driving biological change.

What many people (especially creationists) do not understand is that during Darwin’s lifetime, the scientific community never accepted his theory, although they were convinced by his book that the fact of evolution was true. It was only long afterwards that his basic theory was combined with new discoveries in population genetics to convince biologists that Natural Selection does absolutely the best job of explaining the facts.


I note your tired slogans about “Darwinism and eugenics” are right out of the fundamentalist Christian playbook at the Henry Morris School of the Damaged.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA002_1.html


What science “has come down to” is abandoning the nonsense of the Flat Earth’ers/fundamentalist ministries.

"It is precisely because Biblical revelation is absolutely authoritative and perspicuous that the scientific facts, rightly interpreted, will give the same testimony as that of Scripture. There is not the slightest possibility that the facts of science can contradict the Bible."
-Dr. Henry Morris in very first paragraph of "Scientists Confront Creationism" edited by Laurie R. Godfrey


Instead of spouting vague, unsupported claims, why don't you state some specifics? What evolution lies and conspiracies? It seems you have bought into the elaborate fabrication of creationism. Who is your mentor?

I think debates ARE important... although they do NOTHING to advance science. Nor do they do ANYTHING to convert the true believer. But they do EXPOSE the lack of science in creationism, the dishonest tactics, and they do demonstrate to the public that real science has nothing to hide while ID/creationists certainly do.

There is the FACT that species change. There is a predictable range of genetic variation in a species, as well as an expected rate of random mutations. Creationists admit that a "kind" (an ambiguous, non-scientific term) can change into different species (i.e. a dog "kind" can evolve into wolves, coyotes, foxes, and all types of domestic dogs) but they insist that it must stop there. They give no reason for this fabricated limitation. They just can't accept macroevolution, because it contradicts the "truth" of the bible. But there is no limit to the degree that a species can change. Given enough time, a fish-like species can evolve into a amphibian-like species, an amphibian-like species can evolve into a reptilian-like species, a reptilian-like species can evolve into a mammalian-like species, and an ape-like species can evolve into the modern human species. The process (simply stated) involves the potential of many different types of individuals within a species, the birth of a great many individual organisms, and the deaths of those individuals whose characteristics are not as well suited to the total environment as other individuals of the same species. The deaths of these less well suited individuals allows for the increased reproduction of the better suited ones, and initiates a shift in the appearance and function of the species. Without limitation.

 

[Old Rocks]

No use debating with the James Bond types. They are willfully ignorant, and very proud of the fact they are.

 

[RWS]

I understand you are totally enveloped in the scam of religion.

Your friends are in it, your family is in it...

It's hard to get out when it's woven into your life. You don't want to be the pariah.

I get it.

But with therapy, you can get out. You can find new ways to contribute to the world that don't involve religions. The way it should be. You want to help the world to find peace and salvation, not change the world to follow a religious mantra.

You have to take the first step and get some help. We can try to help, but you're mostly gonna get shade by posting this stuff here. Why don't we try to understand what you need to get to the afterlife? And leave the religion behind? And we can talk about those possibilities...

Though I don't think an afterlife exists, if it does, I think I should qualify way more than most religious people I have met. And you should feel the same way. You don't need a religion to be a good person. And any afterlife that denies a good person based on a particular religion, is not an afterlife you want to be part of.

 

[LittleNipper]

I understand you are totally enveloped in the scam of religion.

Your friends are in it, your family is in it...

It's hard to get out when it's woven into your life. You don't want to be the pariah.

I get it.

But with therapy, you can get out. You can find new ways to contribute to the world that don't involve religions. The way it should be. You want to help the world to find peace and salvation, not change the world to follow a religious mantra.

You have to take the first step and get some help. We can try to help, but you're mostly gonna get shade by posting this stuff here. Why don't we try to understand what you need to get to the afterlife? And leave the religion behind? And we can talk about those possibilities...

Though I don't think an afterlife exists, if it does, I think I should qualify way more than most religious people I have met. And you should feel the same way. You don't need a religion to be a good person. And any afterlife that denies a good person based on a particular religion, is not an afterlife you want to be part of.

And you are inferring that science museums are free, that university professors are working for nothing? That the Public school system is running on donations? What planet are you from (to coin a phrase). Are Creationists allowed to work in any scientific institution they choose if they are at the top of their class in academics? There is no salvation apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. Evolution is simply an extension of Hedonism. They concoct their own rules and regulations, and they assign their own direction for the study of our existence. Only GOD is good. If you have lied, cheated, stolen, engaged in fornication, gossiped, committed adultery, or misappropriated terminology (cussed) ----- EVER --- even once ----- then you are not "good". It is vanity to think so, but you seem to be one who would loll the public into a false sense of security meaning: I'm not as "bad" as they are mentality.

What is being termed "science" today is a scam. and the sooner people like yourself come to such a conclusion, the sooner supposed professionals will work together to process the data being discovered and not worry about who is on top. Scientific study would be encouraged and not be exclusive and manipulative.

 

[RWS]

You need an intervention too LittleNipper,

Because you for sure have done one of the above, and seem to be self-absolved of it. But you infer that I am cursed by it. Which I am!

I think when you use the term "vanity" you should look at your own beliefs. I only speak the truth. And it may not look pretty.

But it's the truth.

 

[RWS]

Santa Claus doesn't exist....

There! I said it...

Any other beliefs from birth that we want to discuss?

 

[Hollie]

I understand you are totally enveloped in the scam of religion.

Your friends are in it, your family is in it...

It's hard to get out when it's woven into your life. You don't want to be the pariah.

I get it.

But with therapy, you can get out. You can find new ways to contribute to the world that don't involve religions. The way it should be. You want to help the world to find peace and salvation, not change the world to follow a religious mantra.

You have to take the first step and get some help. We can try to help, but you're mostly gonna get shade by posting this stuff here. Why don't we try to understand what you need to get to the afterlife? And leave the religion behind? And we can talk about those possibilities...

Though I don't think an afterlife exists, if it does, I think I should qualify way more than most religious people I have met. And you should feel the same way. You don't need a religion to be a good person. And any afterlife that denies a good person based on a particular religion, is not an afterlife you want to be part of.

And you are inferring that science museums are free, that university professors are working for nothing? That the Public school system is running on donations? What planet are you from (to coin a phrase). Are Creationists allowed to work in any scientific institution they choose if they are at the top of their class in academics? There is no salvation apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. Evolution is simply an extension of Hedonism. They concoct their own rules and regulations, and they assign their own direction for the study of our existence. Only GOD is good. If you have lied, cheated, stolen, engaged in fornication, gossiped, committed adultery, or misappropriated terminology (cussed) ----- EVER --- even once ----- then you are not "good". It is vanity to think so, but you seem to be one who would loll the public into a false sense of security meaning: I'm not as "bad" as they are mentality.

What is being termed "science" today is a scam. and the sooner people like yourself come to such a conclusion, the sooner supposed professionals will work together to process the data being discovered and not worry about who is on top. Scientific study would be encouraged and not be exclusive and manipulative.

I’m delighted in your Public Service Announcement that science is a scam. I’m no longer seeking competent medical advise if I get sick. I’m going to pray, rattle bones or read tea leaves.