Do You Believe In God?

[Campbell]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

Can't the Priests serve as Deacons or other ministerial/pastoral roles.

And when the older retired leaders lose their spouses and are no longer married, their children are grown and they aren't at risk as much of having family conflicts to detract their attention, can't these leaders serve as the Priests whose fulltime focus is tending to the church membership? Is there a way to keep the main tradition going?

If not, if congregations want to vote on keeping the ministers and priests who best serve their community, why not let the parishes of people decide? If they pick a married priest, a gay priest or a woman, as long as the community is in full agreement in Christ isn't that God's will. And shouldn't all differences be able to be resolved in Christ, where only if man has injected his own will would there be a conflict with God's will, right?

Oh no that would never do. You see, neither the way priests are selected nor their ban on women has anything to do with the wants or needs of the congregation. It has everything to do with institutional power and control. Leave us not be silly enough to imagine the Catholic Church is there for some kind of spiritual enlightenment. It's out there for power. Like any organized Big Religion.

So maybe this does need to change where the congregations do participate and share responsibility.
This does not have to negate the church authority and traditions. Surely they can work something out.

Not to worry. In order to address the prison issues (which also affect resources needed for mental health and health care reforms in general), then community programs will have to be developed locally anyway. Social problems, such as the internal causes of addictions abuse rape and other crimes, that can't be solved by legislating from the top down, are going to have to be solved from the grassroots up, and meeting somewhere in the middle. The local districts and communities need to manage their resources and resolve their issues democratically while working in conjunction with the "top down" management who want to streamline the process for all groups to be the same. This requires give and take between both.

Just follow the bible's instructions:

Leviticus 20:13King James Version (KJV)

13 If a man also lie with a man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

There are 42 death penalty sins mentioned in the bible. Let's just take care of all of them:



1. Murder. Genesis 9:6.

2. Failing to circumcize. Genesis 17:14.

3. Eating leavened bread during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Exodus 12:15, 19.

4. Smiting parents. Exodus 21:15.

5. Kidnapping. Exodus 21:16.

6. Cursing parents. Exodus 21:17.

7. Negligence with animals that kill. Exodus 21:28-32.

8. Witchcraft. Exodus 22:18.

9. Bestiality. Exodus 22:19.

10. Idolatry. Exodus 22:20.

11. Making holy anointing oil without authorization. Exodus 30:33.

12. Putting holy anointing oil on strangers. Exodus 30:33.

13. Making the holy perfume without being commanded to do so. Exodus 30:38.

14. Defiling the Sabbath. Exodus 31:14.

15. Working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.

16. Eating the flesh of the peace offering in uncleanness. Leviticus 7:20-21.

17. Eating the fat of sacrifices. Leviticus 7:25.

18. Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the Tabernacle. Leviticus 17:1-9.

19. Eating blood. Leviticus 17:10-14.

20. Incest. Leviticus 18:6-29.

21. Eating sacrifices at the wrong time. Leviticus 19:5-8.

22. Consecration of children to idols. Leviticus 20:1-5.

23. Spiritualism. Leviticus 20:6, 27.

24. Adultery. Leviticus 20:10.

25. Men lying with men in religious prostitution. Leviticus 20:13.

26. Relationship with a menstrous woman. Leviticus 20:18.

27. Whoredom. Leviticus 21:9.

28. Sacrilege. Leviticus 22:3.

29. Refusing to fast on the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:29.

30. Working on the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:30.

31. Blasphemy. Leviticus 24:24:11-16.

32. Failure to keep the Passover. Numbers 9:13.

33. Presumptous sins. Numbers 15:30-31.

34. Gathering fire-wood on the Sabbath. Numbers 15:32-36.

35. Failure to purify one's self before worship. Numbers 19:13, 20.

36. False prophesy. Deuteronomy 13:1-18.

37. Leading mean away from God. Deuteronomy 13:6-18.

38. Backsliding. Deuteronomy 17:2-7.

39. Stubbornness and rebellion. Deuteronomy 21:18-23.

40. Gluttony. Deuteronomy 21:20-23.

41. Drunkenness. Deuteronomy 21:20-23.

42. False dreams and visions. Deuteronomy 13:1-18.

How about James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another
and pray for one another
that you may be healed

You are citing the Old Testament Campbell
before people had access to generational healing in Christ Jesus
that is the New Testament.

By living by the New Testament by the spirit of the laws,
then we no longer violate laws by the Old Testament living by the letter.

Living by the letter of the law does not guarantee the spirit of the law is met.
But living by the spirit of the law first, is the way to make sure both the spirit and letter AGREE.

So that is why it is important to forgive correct and heal all faults
so that we can restore both the Spirit and the Letter of the Law
and not compromise one for the other.

Campbell we must resolve our issues first, be united in agreement
in the spirit of truth and justice, then in that spirit of agreement in truth
then we can address and resolve all other issues in complete context.

If you take the OT out of context with the rest, that is only
focusing on the letter of the law but missing the entire spirit.

All have to be applied in context to capture the full meaning message and process.
In this way Justice is achieved. Not by picking some passages
and trying to hang one another by the letter to make each other wrong.
the point of the process is to make all things right, so this
uses forgiveness in order to bring about corrections and restoration of justice and peace.

It's amazing how little those who are supposed to be well versed actually know about what's in the bible.

Jesus himself said not one jot or tittle of the law would be changed till all was fulfilled, till heaven and earth passed away:

Matthew 5:
17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Now.....let's go out and kill a few witches

 

[RandomVariable]

Spin all you like but the simple imperative sentence "Fear God" is very straightforward. Verb; direct object. No reference to extraneous qualifiers. Don't sit here and preach to me about ignorance; I need English lessons from no one.

Yep, you're absolutely correct, Pogo. "Fear God." is exactly that. Fear God. If you stand in front of God and feel at that very instant you are about to be sent to the very depths of Hell you do not know God.

 

[RandomVariable]

Then again I am referring to God rather than Jesus. A Christian probably does have a different take on that.

 

[dblack]

Gods are as gods do.

 

[Campbell]

Gods are as gods do.

I'm a Jack and the Beanstalk guy myself. I liked the ogre

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Dear Skull Pilot
Do you believe in Justice?
if so where does this concept come from?
Do you believe we will achieve Justice by Peace
or Justice by war?

Justice is a human concept.

Skull Pilot
Well, even if justice comes as a projection of human nature,
where did our human nature come from? Did we mold and
define our own human nature? Did we decide how the mind,
body and social relationships all intertwine? Did we create
our own "mechanism in our consciences" with our need for
freedom and for peace and the process of balancing both?
Did we create our own egos and how human nature will
seek to defend itself from the encroachment by outside influences.
Did we create "all of that dynamic" in which justice is defined?

Can we discuss the different between
Retributive Justice and Restorative Justice.
Because I'd say that retribution is more how people
tend to see justice if left to our own devices, but the
other approach to justice comes from a higher source we don't control.
Restorative Justice is usually counterintuitive and goes AGAINST
what people find convenient for them. If people are going to make something
up, would they pick something that is so difficult they would rather take
shortcuts to AVOID it than to do the work it really takes to achieve this higher justice?

If you look up programs for Restorative Justice,
and the ability to forgive heinous crimes in order to heal
the relationships and community, most people reporting
that this method works will say it comes from beyond their own will.

The higher justice and peace driving the process toward resolution
is greater than the individual will of any person in the process.

So even though we attach our own perceptions to justice,
we didn't create the process around it. We seek to receive, establish and receive it,
but it is too great a process and concept to bring "equal justice to all humanity."

Collectively the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
We all contribute to it, but none of the people I know designed this process
that is part of human nature we didn't create.

Why did anyone have to design it?

Our behavior has evolved as our brain capacity increased

 

[Campbell]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Dear Skull Pilot
Do you believe in Justice?
if so where does this concept come from?
Do you believe we will achieve Justice by Peace
or Justice by war?

Justice is a human concept.

Skull Pilot
Well, even if justice comes as a projection of human nature,
where did our human nature come from? Did we mold and
define our own human nature? Did we decide how the mind,
body and social relationships all intertwine? Did we create
our own "mechanism in our consciences" with our need for
freedom and for peace and the process of balancing both?
Did we create our own egos and how human nature will
seek to defend itself from the encroachment by outside influences.
Did we create "all of that dynamic" in which justice is defined?

Can we discuss the different between
Retributive Justice and Restorative Justice.
Because I'd say that retribution is more how people
tend to see justice if left to our own devices, but the
other approach to justice comes from a higher source we don't control.
Restorative Justice is usually counterintuitive and goes AGAINST
what people find convenient for them. If people are going to make something
up, would they pick something that is so difficult they would rather take
shortcuts to AVOID it than to do the work it really takes to achieve this higher justice?

If you look up programs for Restorative Justice,
and the ability to forgive heinous crimes in order to heal
the relationships and community, most people reporting
that this method works will say it comes from beyond their own will.

The higher justice and peace driving the process toward resolution
is greater than the individual will of any person in the process.

So even though we attach our own perceptions to justice,
we didn't create the process around it. We seek to receive, establish and receive it,
but it is too great a process and concept to bring "equal justice to all humanity."

Collectively the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
We all contribute to it, but none of the people I know designed this process
that is part of human nature we didn't create.

Why did anyone have to design it?

Our behavior has evolved as our brain capacity increased

I liked your quote!

I also like this one:

"In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable"
~General Dwight Eisenhower~

 

[Bonzi]

Regarding last days........... verse 7. applies to many here......

2 Timothy 3:2-7
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Campbell]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species on the planet earth was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

 

[Bonzi]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

 

[Taz]

A god that if not adulated, burns you forever, surely does not exist.

 

[Taz]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

Practise what you preach.

 

[Bonzi]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

Practise what you preach.

I'm not preaching, just sharing God's word.

 

[Bonzi]

A god that if not adulated, burns you forever, surely does not exist.

that's not how it works.
God doesn't burn you. You make the choice to reject him.

 

[Taz]

A god that if not adulated, burns you forever, surely does not exist.

that's not how it works.
God doesn't burn you. You make the choice to reject him.

So if I reject him, he burns me. A god that works on threats surely does not exist.

 

[Taz]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

Practise what you preach.

I'm not preaching, just sharing God's word.

The time has come that you are not enduring sound doctrine. Your ears are tickled by con men who promise you want you want to hear.

 

[Bonzi]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

Practise what you preach.

I'm not preaching, just sharing God's word.

The time has come that you are not enduring sound doctrine. Your ears are tickled by con men who promise you want you want to hear.

Galatians 6:7

Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap

 

[Taz]

Surely you jest! Just another quip from a 2000 year old fairy tale.

Do you really believe that Hey Zeus walked on water and turned some of it into wine...the best wine? Do you believe that 5000 men plus women and children who also ate were fed with two fish and five loaves? Do you believe that a big fish puked up a live man? Do you believe that two of each live species was loaded onto one home made boat? If you honestly do I suggest that you schedule an appointment with a shrink as quickly as possible.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

Practise what you preach.

I'm not preaching, just sharing God's word.

The time has come that you are not enduring sound doctrine. Your ears are tickled by con men who promise you want you want to hear.

Galatians 6:7

Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap

You do realize that the bible was written by men who wrote down anything they wanted to? Right?

 

[Bonzi]

I love 2 Timothy!

2 Timothy 3:16

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."

 

[Taz]

I love 2 Timothy!

2 Timothy 3:16

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."

Like I said, the guys wrote whatever they wanted to ("breathed out by god", completely without foundation). And it's profitable! Gee, who woulda thunk it?