Do You Believe In God?

[sealybobo]

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

Why do you fault them in your mind?
If someone believes in or worships Satan does that bother you too?

When someone is wrong I fault them. Period.

 

[sealybobo]

If I told you a perfect ten is here waiting for you with ten million bucks would you be rejecting her if you don't come?

I don't have a clue in the world what that means.

You wouldn't be rejecting my perfect ten with big bucks, would you be? Same way you aren't rejecting their God. You simply are unconvinced it exists. Rejecting would require you believing it exists and then rejecting it or him. They don't even realize the words used to brainwash them. He who rejects the lord.....

Dear sealybobo
I agree with part of your point, that it is unfair to judge Secular Gentiles for rejecting that which isn't proven,
given that this is the nature of Secular Gentiles to seek understanding first.

So yes there is a difference between rejecting the religious approach, vs. rejecting whatever is the truth
about God. if it isn't being effectively communicated or proven/established, then that is a separate issue.

However, there is also the factor of not wanting to hear, see or accept proof.
If people do not forgive each other, that ill will or negative mutual mistrust can block the process, too.

Even if it isn't fair to judge either side, for not trusting each other to seek or speak the truth,
that mutual problem can still block the process so it does become impossible to clarify anything.

Whose fault is that? It tends to be mutual.
Both sides would eventually need to agree to drop the biases and barriers,
and they might be able to resolve their perceptual differences
in order to discuss the common truth underneath.

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

We can fault whoever we find fault with, but the real issue is forgiving faults so we can correct them.
If we don't forgive, it causes fights and barriers making it harder to fix the problems.
So why judge people for things in ways that obstructs resolution?

by experience, it will eventually become clear that forgiveness may be the first step toward corrections.
Forgiveness is more important than whether we make mistakes in judgment because that's going to happen.
We just can't let those faults stand in the way of reconciling relations and using those to establish truth.

I forgive your fault so much I like you and consider you a good person despite it.

 

[Bonzi]

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

Why do you fault them in your mind?
If someone believes in or worships Satan does that bother you too?

When someone is wrong I fault them. Period.

Can you prove they are wrong?
Do you go around pointing out all the "wrong" religions or do you only target Christians?

 

[sealybobo]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Do you believe in any kind of God?

I describe myself as an agnostic with atheistic leanings.

If there is a supreme being then it is my thought that it would be so far beyond our understanding that we would never truly be able to understand or know it in any meaningful way.

If he never visited, which he didn't, how did we figure it out?

What we did was say "there must be a creator", then we started giving his a personality.

So we made it up. Was it a lucky guess?

So far beyond your understanding? If so why speculate?

 

[sealybobo]

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

Why do you fault them in your mind?
If someone believes in or worships Satan does that bother you too?

When someone is wrong I fault them. Period.

Can you prove they are wrong?
Do you go around pointing out all the "wrong" religions or do you only target Christians?

All of them. In fact I use the 999 other religions to try and show Christians their religion isn't even the first or last. Just happens to be the main one in your neck of the woods.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Do you believe in any kind of God?

I describe myself as an agnostic with atheistic leanings.

If there is a supreme being then it is my thought that it would be so far beyond our understanding that we would never truly be able to understand or know it in any meaningful way.

.

If there is a supreme being then it is my thought that it would be so far beyond our understanding that we would never truly be able to understand or know it in any meaningful way.

certainly not fully as mortals, and a simple explanation for the errant scriptural religions.


freeing your Spirit however and being Admitted to the Everlasting through the Almighty as expected irregardless other faults of written scriptures would demonstrate the ability to understand and know at least ones own destiny. and to some extent all things knowable in time.

.

 

[Campbell]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

I had an ironic childhood

my grandmother would pray the rosary and kiss the cross and pass it around for everyone else to kiss (that was kinda creepy)
my dad carried the cross in church (alter boy) but he only did it so he would have to kneel or bow or anything.
my mom grew up in the southern bible belt and I have never heard her say the words god or jesus, not once and she's 80.
They sent me to catholic school (I know right)
and in the HS I was taught that the popes edited the bible themselves.

but that wasn't the really crazy shit, but that's another thread

Modern officials in the Catholic church are Gay and like to suck off young boys. Anyone who hasn't noticed that is either dumb or blind.

 

[Bonzi]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

 

[Pogo]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

I had an ironic childhood

my grandmother would pray the rosary and kiss the cross and pass it around for everyone else to kiss (that was kinda creepy)
my dad carried the cross in church (alter boy) but he only did it so he would have to kneel or bow or anything.
my mom grew up in the southern bible belt and I have never heard her say the words god or jesus, not once and she's 80.
They sent me to catholic school (I know right)
and in the HS I was taught that the popes edited the bible themselves.

but that wasn't the really crazy shit, but that's another thread

Modern officials in the Catholic church are Gay and like to suck off young boys. Anyone who hasn't noticed that is either dumb or blind.

All blanket statements with the exception of this one are complete bullshit.

 

[emilynghiem]

I fault people who see things that aren't there and people who are so open minded they are conned because of wishful thinking.

Why do you fault them in your mind?
If someone believes in or worships Satan does that bother you too?

When someone is wrong I fault them. Period.

Can you prove they are wrong?
Do you go around pointing out all the "wrong" religions or do you only target Christians?

All of them. In fact I use the 999 other religions to try and show Christians their religion isn't even the first or last. Just happens to be the main one in your neck of the woods.

Dear sealybobo
Just because there are 50 different state laws
does not negate the Constitution being the Law of the Land for all of them.

You can have local laws and this does not negate having
a universal base law as the umbrella for all people under sovereign states.

Same with Christianity. Just because there are Jews and Gentiles, theists and nontheists,
Muslims, Buddhists, etc. etc. does not mean that there cannot be one spirit of Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice that embraces and fulfills all these laws as variations of the same
principles but given to the different tribes. Similar to different state laws that only apply to those local citizens under that jurisdiction. The point is for tribes, nations and states to organize their own constituents and resources under a common code, but that doesn't negate the higher laws that still apply to all of them.

---------

It can be noted that even our Constitutional laws which only apply to US govt jurisdiction,
are based on Natural Laws that apply to all people regardless of nationality.

So again, we have two levels: the universal principles underneath, and the LOCAL expression that is RELATIVE to a particular context. Just because the LOCAL context may not apply to all cases, doesn't mean the CONCEPT underneath can't be universal to all people. With both Constitutional laws and Christian laws, I've found the concepts underlying these ARE universal, and it is just the cultural language and context that is limited and doesn't apply to all people.

All people are born with the need to
express free will/exercise/free choice,
free speech or press (equal means of communicating to establish and represent interests), and right to assemble in peace and security
and to petition for redress of grievance (due process).

So even though these principles are defended under different laws of
different states and nations, in a million different codes, variations, and applications,
they still reflect the same natural laws that apply to all people.

Diversity of expression does not negate universality of the principles.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

Can't the Priests serve as Deacons or other ministerial/pastoral roles.

And when the older retired leaders lose their spouses and are no longer married, their children are grown and they aren't at risk as much of having family conflicts to detract their attention, can't these leaders serve as the Priests whose fulltime focus is tending to the church membership? Is there a way to keep the main tradition going?

If not, if congregations want to vote on keeping the ministers and priests who best serve their community, why not let the parishes of people decide? If they pick a married priest, a gay priest or a woman, as long as the community is in full agreement in Christ isn't that God's will. And shouldn't all differences be able to be resolved in Christ, where only if man has injected his own will would there be a conflict with God's will, right?

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't believe the god of the bible exists.

Dear Skull Pilot
Do you believe in Justice?
if so where does this concept come from?
Do you believe we will achieve Justice by Peace
or Justice by war?

Justice is a human concept.

Skull Pilot
Well, even if justice comes as a projection of human nature,
where did our human nature come from? Did we mold and
define our own human nature? Did we decide how the mind,
body and social relationships all intertwine? Did we create
our own "mechanism in our consciences" with our need for
freedom and for peace and the process of balancing both?
Did we create our own egos and how human nature will
seek to defend itself from the encroachment by outside influences.
Did we create "all of that dynamic" in which justice is defined?

Can we discuss the different between
Retributive Justice and Restorative Justice.
Because I'd say that retribution is more how people
tend to see justice if left to our own devices, but the
other approach to justice comes from a higher source we don't control.
Restorative Justice is usually counterintuitive and goes AGAINST
what people find convenient for them. If people are going to make something
up, would they pick something that is so difficult they would rather take
shortcuts to AVOID it than to do the work it really takes to achieve this higher justice?

If you look up programs for Restorative Justice,
and the ability to forgive heinous crimes in order to heal
the relationships and community, most people reporting
that this method works will say it comes from beyond their own will.

The higher justice and peace driving the process toward resolution
is greater than the individual will of any person in the process.

So even though we attach our own perceptions to justice,
we didn't create the process around it. We seek to receive, establish and receive it,
but it is too great a process and concept to bring "equal justice to all humanity."

Collectively the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
We all contribute to it, but none of the people I know designed this process
that is part of human nature we didn't create.

 

[Two Thumbs]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

I had an ironic childhood

my grandmother would pray the rosary and kiss the cross and pass it around for everyone else to kiss (that was kinda creepy)
my dad carried the cross in church (alter boy) but he only did it so he would have to kneel or bow or anything.
my mom grew up in the southern bible belt and I have never heard her say the words god or jesus, not once and she's 80.
They sent me to catholic school (I know right)
and in the HS I was taught that the popes edited the bible themselves.

but that wasn't the really crazy shit, but that's another thread

Modern officials in the Catholic church are Gay and like to suck off young boys. Anyone who hasn't noticed that is either dumb or blind.

Nothing funnier than false allegations of pedophilia

 

[emilynghiem]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

I had an ironic childhood

my grandmother would pray the rosary and kiss the cross and pass it around for everyone else to kiss (that was kinda creepy)
my dad carried the cross in church (alter boy) but he only did it so he would have to kneel or bow or anything.
my mom grew up in the southern bible belt and I have never heard her say the words god or jesus, not once and she's 80.
They sent me to catholic school (I know right)
and in the HS I was taught that the popes edited the bible themselves.

but that wasn't the really crazy shit, but that's another thread

Modern officials in the Catholic church are Gay and like to suck off young boys. Anyone who hasn't noticed that is either dumb or blind.

Dear Campbell
If we took an actual count,
Which do we have more of::
political party leaders who suck money and power from constituents and [blank] the public up the backside.
or the actual number or % of priests and religious leaders who prey on young boys.

From what I understand, the greater majority of pedophile cases are not the priests.

Just because some people are more visible than others, and the abuse of religious authority is a more public betrayal of
community trust that gets more attention,
does not mean the numbers are greater than the cases we don't trumpet all over the news to hype up media ratings.

Are you going for the loudest noise you can make in the media?
or do you REALLY care about the problem of pedophilia and sexual abuse and religious abuse
and what it takes to SOLVE this problem?

BTW one of the people I respect the most in solving problems of
addiction, abuse and even conflicts with the churches on these
is Francis MacNutt a FORMER Catholic Priest whose ministry called him to greater outreach than the Church authorized
for people outside the priesthood. He recognized that people outside the church and priesthood
were successfully performing healing prayers, deliverance and exorcism the church only approved by
priests in certain approved cases.

If you are TRULY interested in what it takes to address and cure the causes of pedophilia
and other abusive and addictive ills, then this man and his ministry might be worth researching
if not promoting as the solution.

Campbell if you are only interested in Exploiting the FEAR of this issue to badmouth the church,
then you are doing a good job.

If you aren't interested in Exploiting pedophilia for shock value, but really care to help prevent more victims,
you might take a look at the MacNutt's outreach trying to promote healing and deliverance therapy that has effectively cured people of the causes of abuse and addiction,
instead of letting church authorities monopolize or obstruct this knowledge and access to help.

MacNutt also faults the churches for suppressing this knowledge, but at least he is trying to correct that problem.

Since you seem to care so much about this problem, what would you suggest to solve it?

 

[Campbell]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

I had an ironic childhood

my grandmother would pray the rosary and kiss the cross and pass it around for everyone else to kiss (that was kinda creepy)
my dad carried the cross in church (alter boy) but he only did it so he would have to kneel or bow or anything.
my mom grew up in the southern bible belt and I have never heard her say the words god or jesus, not once and she's 80.
They sent me to catholic school (I know right)
and in the HS I was taught that the popes edited the bible themselves.

but that wasn't the really crazy shit, but that's another thread

Modern officials in the Catholic church are Gay and like to suck off young boys. Anyone who hasn't noticed that is either dumb or blind.

Dear Campbell
If we took an actual count,
Which do we have more of::
political party leaders who suck money and power from constituents and [blank] the public up the backside.
or the actual number or % of priests and religious leaders who prey on young boys.

From what I understand, the greater majority of pedophile cases are not the priests.

Just because some people are more visible than others, and the abuse of religious authority is a more public betrayal of
community trust that gets more attention,
does not mean the numbers are greater than the cases we don't trumpet all over the news to hype up media ratings.

Are you going for the loudest noise you can make in the media?
or do you REALLY care about the problem of pedophilia and sexual abuse and religious abuse
and what it takes to SOLVE this problem?

BTW one of the people I respect the most in solving problems of
addiction, abuse and even conflicts with the churches on these
is Francis MacNutt a FORMER Catholic Priest whose ministry called him to greater outreach than the Church authorized
for people outside the priesthood. He recognized that people outside the church and priesthood
were successfully performing healing prayers, deliverance and exorcism the church only approved by
priests in certain approved cases.

If you are TRULY interested in what it takes to address and cure the causes of pedophilia
and other abusive and addictive ills, then this man and his ministry might be worth researching
if not promoting as the solution.

Campbell if you are only interested in Exploiting the FEAR of this issue to badmouth the church,
then you are doing a good job.

If you aren't interested in Exploiting pedophilia for shock value, but really care to help prevent more victims,
you might take a look at the MacNutt's outreach trying to promote healing and deliverance therapy that has effectively cured people of the causes of abuse and addiction,
instead of letting church authorities monopolize or obstruct this knowledge and access to help.

MacNutt also faults the churches for suppressing this knowledge, but at least he is trying to correct that problem.

Since you seem to care so much about this problem, what would you suggest to solve it?

The Catholic Hierarchy is filled with Gays. It's like they've found a fertile field. Young boys and few if any questions.

Besides that anybody who wears bright colored dresses and cute little caps should automatically become suspect. I won't even mention waving smoke pots....well, I guess I did.

 

[Pogo]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

Can't the Priests serve as Deacons or other ministerial/pastoral roles.

And when the older retired leaders lose their spouses and are no longer married, their children are grown and they aren't at risk as much of having family conflicts to detract their attention, can't these leaders serve as the Priests whose fulltime focus is tending to the church membership? Is there a way to keep the main tradition going?

If not, if congregations want to vote on keeping the ministers and priests who best serve their community, why not let the parishes of people decide? If they pick a married priest, a gay priest or a woman, as long as the community is in full agreement in Christ isn't that God's will. And shouldn't all differences be able to be resolved in Christ, where only if man has injected his own will would there be a conflict with God's will, right?

Oh no that would never do. You see, neither the way priests are selected nor their ban on women has anything to do with the wants or needs of the congregation. It has everything to do with institutional power and control. Leave us not be silly enough to imagine the Catholic Church is there for some kind of spiritual enlightenment. It's out there for power. Like any organized Big Religion.

 

[emilynghiem]

The main religions aren't even close to having been the first religions. And we know the bible has been heavily edited through the ages.

Hear hear, true fact.

And if we have any interest at all in the area we owe it to ourselves to go at least investigate some of those alternatives, rather than just blindly accepting what we've been handed at birth.

I had an ironic childhood

my grandmother would pray the rosary and kiss the cross and pass it around for everyone else to kiss (that was kinda creepy)
my dad carried the cross in church (alter boy) but he only did it so he would have to kneel or bow or anything.
my mom grew up in the southern bible belt and I have never heard her say the words god or jesus, not once and she's 80.
They sent me to catholic school (I know right)
and in the HS I was taught that the popes edited the bible themselves.

but that wasn't the really crazy shit, but that's another thread

Modern officials in the Catholic church are Gay and like to suck off young boys. Anyone who hasn't noticed that is either dumb or blind.

Dear Campbell
If we took an actual count,
Which do we have more of::
political party leaders who suck money and power from constituents and [blank] the public up the backside.
or the actual number or % of priests and religious leaders who prey on young boys.

From what I understand, the greater majority of pedophile cases are not the priests.

Just because some people are more visible than others, and the abuse of religious authority is a more public betrayal of
community trust that gets more attention,
does not mean the numbers are greater than the cases we don't trumpet all over the news to hype up media ratings.

Are you going for the loudest noise you can make in the media?
or do you REALLY care about the problem of pedophilia and sexual abuse and religious abuse
and what it takes to SOLVE this problem?

BTW one of the people I respect the most in solving problems of
addiction, abuse and even conflicts with the churches on these
is Francis MacNutt a FORMER Catholic Priest whose ministry called him to greater outreach than the Church authorized
for people outside the priesthood. He recognized that people outside the church and priesthood
were successfully performing healing prayers, deliverance and exorcism the church only approved by
priests in certain approved cases.

If you are TRULY interested in what it takes to address and cure the causes of pedophilia
and other abusive and addictive ills, then this man and his ministry might be worth researching
if not promoting as the solution.

Campbell if you are only interested in Exploiting the FEAR of this issue to badmouth the church,
then you are doing a good job.

If you aren't interested in Exploiting pedophilia for shock value, but really care to help prevent more victims,
you might take a look at the MacNutt's outreach trying to promote healing and deliverance therapy that has effectively cured people of the causes of abuse and addiction,
instead of letting church authorities monopolize or obstruct this knowledge and access to help.

MacNutt also faults the churches for suppressing this knowledge, but at least he is trying to correct that problem.

Since you seem to care so much about this problem, what would you suggest to solve it?

The Catholic Hierarchy is filled with Gays. It's like they've found a fertile field. Young boys and few if any questions.

Besides that anybody who wears bright colored dresses and cute little caps should automatically become suspect. I won't even mention waving smoke pots....well, I guess I did.

Dear Campbell so what do you think of the idea of
sending all pedophiles who are too dangerous for society
to live in correctional rehab facilities along the border, create
jobs for military personnel guarding these maximum security prisons for
the most dangerous violent repeat offenders,
and having the Catholic Priests (especially ones who owe restitution if they committed
or covered up pedophile abuses) administer to these inmates
for recovery, rehab and for overseeing work programs to pay restitution
while they are locked up for life. Would that solve the problems of
* Catholic Priests not having access to "young boys" but restricted to
ministries to men and especially pedophiles in recovery so they only pose risk to each other
* restricted prisons where dangerous repeat offenders cannot be released on the streets
* border security by creating bases and jobs for military there
* ending waste of resources on the death penalty if the Catholic church pays the cost of
lifelong restitution and rehab programs in these prisons in place of death row

What do you think of this idea?
Regardless if there are gays or pedophiles in the Priesthood,
wouldn't this idea prevent them from harming any unwilling participants
by restricting their ministerial work to other pedophile addicts in recovery?

 

[emilynghiem]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

Can't the Priests serve as Deacons or other ministerial/pastoral roles.

And when the older retired leaders lose their spouses and are no longer married, their children are grown and they aren't at risk as much of having family conflicts to detract their attention, can't these leaders serve as the Priests whose fulltime focus is tending to the church membership? Is there a way to keep the main tradition going?

If not, if congregations want to vote on keeping the ministers and priests who best serve their community, why not let the parishes of people decide? If they pick a married priest, a gay priest or a woman, as long as the community is in full agreement in Christ isn't that God's will. And shouldn't all differences be able to be resolved in Christ, where only if man has injected his own will would there be a conflict with God's will, right?

Oh no that would never do. You see, neither the way priests are selected nor their ban on women has anything to do with the wants or needs of the congregation. It has everything to do with institutional power and control. Leave us not be silly enough to imagine the Catholic Church is there for some kind of spiritual enlightenment. It's out there for power. Like any organized Big Religion.

So maybe this does need to change where the congregations do participate and share responsibility.
This does not have to negate the church authority and traditions. Surely they can work something out.

Not to worry. In order to address the prison issues (which also affect resources needed for mental health and health care reforms in general), then community programs will have to be developed locally anyway. Social problems, such as the internal causes of addictions abuse rape and other crimes, that can't be solved by legislating from the top down, are going to have to be solved from the grassroots up, and meeting somewhere in the middle. The local districts and communities need to manage their resources and resolve their issues democratically while working in conjunction with the "top down" management who want to streamline the process for all groups to be the same. This requires give and take between both.

the church groups are going to be a major part of organizing localized democratic management per community and district. the same way govt needs to localize to ensure accountability, this is true of schools and churches also, that need to answer to the constituents they serve.

 

[Campbell]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

Can't the Priests serve as Deacons or other ministerial/pastoral roles.

And when the older retired leaders lose their spouses and are no longer married, their children are grown and they aren't at risk as much of having family conflicts to detract their attention, can't these leaders serve as the Priests whose fulltime focus is tending to the church membership? Is there a way to keep the main tradition going?

If not, if congregations want to vote on keeping the ministers and priests who best serve their community, why not let the parishes of people decide? If they pick a married priest, a gay priest or a woman, as long as the community is in full agreement in Christ isn't that God's will. And shouldn't all differences be able to be resolved in Christ, where only if man has injected his own will would there be a conflict with God's will, right?

Oh no that would never do. You see, neither the way priests are selected nor their ban on women has anything to do with the wants or needs of the congregation. It has everything to do with institutional power and control. Leave us not be silly enough to imagine the Catholic Church is there for some kind of spiritual enlightenment. It's out there for power. Like any organized Big Religion.

So maybe this does need to change where the congregations do participate and share responsibility.
This does not have to negate the church authority and traditions. Surely they can work something out.

Not to worry. In order to address the prison issues (which also affect resources needed for mental health and health care reforms in general), then community programs will have to be developed locally anyway. Social problems, such as the internal causes of addictions abuse rape and other crimes, that can't be solved by legislating from the top down, are going to have to be solved from the grassroots up, and meeting somewhere in the middle. The local districts and communities need to manage their resources and resolve their issues democratically while working in conjunction with the "top down" management who want to streamline the process for all groups to be the same. This requires give and take between both.

Just follow the bible's instructions:

Leviticus 20:13King James Version (KJV)

13 If a man also lie with a man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

There are 42 death penalty sins mentioned in the bible. Let's just take care of all of them:



1. Murder. Genesis 9:6.

2. Failing to circumcize. Genesis 17:14.

3. Eating leavened bread during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Exodus 12:15, 19.

4. Smiting parents. Exodus 21:15.

5. Kidnapping. Exodus 21:16.

6. Cursing parents. Exodus 21:17.

7. Negligence with animals that kill. Exodus 21:28-32.

8. Witchcraft. Exodus 22:18.

9. Bestiality. Exodus 22:19.

10. Idolatry. Exodus 22:20.

11. Making holy anointing oil without authorization. Exodus 30:33.

12. Putting holy anointing oil on strangers. Exodus 30:33.

13. Making the holy perfume without being commanded to do so. Exodus 30:38.

14. Defiling the Sabbath. Exodus 31:14.

15. Working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.

16. Eating the flesh of the peace offering in uncleanness. Leviticus 7:20-21.

17. Eating the fat of sacrifices. Leviticus 7:25.

18. Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the Tabernacle. Leviticus 17:1-9.

19. Eating blood. Leviticus 17:10-14.

20. Incest. Leviticus 18:6-29.

21. Eating sacrifices at the wrong time. Leviticus 19:5-8.

22. Consecration of children to idols. Leviticus 20:1-5.

23. Spiritualism. Leviticus 20:6, 27.

24. Adultery. Leviticus 20:10.

25. Men lying with men in religious prostitution. Leviticus 20:13.

26. Relationship with a menstrous woman. Leviticus 20:18.

27. Whoredom. Leviticus 21:9.

28. Sacrilege. Leviticus 22:3.

29. Refusing to fast on the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:29.

30. Working on the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:30.

31. Blasphemy. Leviticus 24:24:11-16.

32. Failure to keep the Passover. Numbers 9:13.

33. Presumptous sins. Numbers 15:30-31.

34. Gathering fire-wood on the Sabbath. Numbers 15:32-36.

35. Failure to purify one's self before worship. Numbers 19:13, 20.

36. False prophesy. Deuteronomy 13:1-18.

37. Leading mean away from God. Deuteronomy 13:6-18.

38. Backsliding. Deuteronomy 17:2-7.

39. Stubbornness and rebellion. Deuteronomy 21:18-23.

40. Gluttony. Deuteronomy 21:20-23.

41. Drunkenness. Deuteronomy 21:20-23.

42. False dreams and visions. Deuteronomy 13:1-18.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not many people are born with the "gift of singleness"

Demanding Priests not to marry is irresponsible and dangerous.....

Can't the Priests serve as Deacons or other ministerial/pastoral roles.

And when the older retired leaders lose their spouses and are no longer married, their children are grown and they aren't at risk as much of having family conflicts to detract their attention, can't these leaders serve as the Priests whose fulltime focus is tending to the church membership? Is there a way to keep the main tradition going?

If not, if congregations want to vote on keeping the ministers and priests who best serve their community, why not let the parishes of people decide? If they pick a married priest, a gay priest or a woman, as long as the community is in full agreement in Christ isn't that God's will. And shouldn't all differences be able to be resolved in Christ, where only if man has injected his own will would there be a conflict with God's will, right?

Oh no that would never do. You see, neither the way priests are selected nor their ban on women has anything to do with the wants or needs of the congregation. It has everything to do with institutional power and control. Leave us not be silly enough to imagine the Catholic Church is there for some kind of spiritual enlightenment. It's out there for power. Like any organized Big Religion.

So maybe this does need to change where the congregations do participate and share responsibility.
This does not have to negate the church authority and traditions. Surely they can work something out.

Not to worry. In order to address the prison issues (which also affect resources needed for mental health and health care reforms in general), then community programs will have to be developed locally anyway. Social problems, such as the internal causes of addictions abuse rape and other crimes, that can't be solved by legislating from the top down, are going to have to be solved from the grassroots up, and meeting somewhere in the middle. The local districts and communities need to manage their resources and resolve their issues democratically while working in conjunction with the "top down" management who want to streamline the process for all groups to be the same. This requires give and take between both.

Just follow the bible's instructions:

Leviticus 20:13King James Version (KJV)

13 If a man also lie with a man, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

There are 42 death penalty sins mentioned in the bible. Let's just take care of all of them:



1. Murder. Genesis 9:6.

2. Failing to circumcize. Genesis 17:14.

3. Eating leavened bread during the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Exodus 12:15, 19.

4. Smiting parents. Exodus 21:15.

5. Kidnapping. Exodus 21:16.

6. Cursing parents. Exodus 21:17.

7. Negligence with animals that kill. Exodus 21:28-32.

8. Witchcraft. Exodus 22:18.

9. Bestiality. Exodus 22:19.

10. Idolatry. Exodus 22:20.

11. Making holy anointing oil without authorization. Exodus 30:33.

12. Putting holy anointing oil on strangers. Exodus 30:33.

13. Making the holy perfume without being commanded to do so. Exodus 30:38.

14. Defiling the Sabbath. Exodus 31:14.

15. Working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.

16. Eating the flesh of the peace offering in uncleanness. Leviticus 7:20-21.

17. Eating the fat of sacrifices. Leviticus 7:25.

18. Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the Tabernacle. Leviticus 17:1-9.

19. Eating blood. Leviticus 17:10-14.

20. Incest. Leviticus 18:6-29.

21. Eating sacrifices at the wrong time. Leviticus 19:5-8.

22. Consecration of children to idols. Leviticus 20:1-5.

23. Spiritualism. Leviticus 20:6, 27.

24. Adultery. Leviticus 20:10.

25. Men lying with men in religious prostitution. Leviticus 20:13.

26. Relationship with a menstrous woman. Leviticus 20:18.

27. Whoredom. Leviticus 21:9.

28. Sacrilege. Leviticus 22:3.

29. Refusing to fast on the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:29.

30. Working on the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:30.

31. Blasphemy. Leviticus 24:24:11-16.

32. Failure to keep the Passover. Numbers 9:13.

33. Presumptous sins. Numbers 15:30-31.

34. Gathering fire-wood on the Sabbath. Numbers 15:32-36.

35. Failure to purify one's self before worship. Numbers 19:13, 20.

36. False prophesy. Deuteronomy 13:1-18.

37. Leading mean away from God. Deuteronomy 13:6-18.

38. Backsliding. Deuteronomy 17:2-7.

39. Stubbornness and rebellion. Deuteronomy 21:18-23.

40. Gluttony. Deuteronomy 21:20-23.

41. Drunkenness. Deuteronomy 21:20-23.

42. False dreams and visions. Deuteronomy 13:1-18.

How about James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another
and pray for one another
that you may be healed

You are citing the Old Testament Campbell
before people had access to generational healing in Christ Jesus
that is the New Testament.

By living by the New Testament by the spirit of the laws,
then we no longer violate laws by the Old Testament living by the letter.

Living by the letter of the law does not guarantee the spirit of the law is met.
But living by the spirit of the law first, is the way to make sure both the spirit and letter AGREE.

So that is why it is important to forgive correct and heal all faults
so that we can restore both the Spirit and the Letter of the Law
and not compromise one for the other.

Campbell we must resolve our issues first, be united in agreement
in the spirit of truth and justice, then in that spirit of agreement in truth
then we can address and resolve all other issues in complete context.

If you take the OT out of context with the rest, that is only
focusing on the letter of the law but missing the entire spirit.

All have to be applied in context to capture the full meaning message and process.
In this way Justice is achieved. Not by picking some passages
and trying to hang one another by the letter to make each other wrong.
the point of the process is to make all things right, so this
uses forgiveness in order to bring about corrections and restoration of justice and peace.