Do you believe in gobal warming?

[Mr. P]

I mean ice added to water. That is, ice cubes added to a glass already filled with water, later melting would increase volume of water inside the glass. You are essentially adding more water to an existing body (or glass) of water, regardless of the state it's in when it enters ie:frozen, not frozen. I understand the ice cube tray analogy, jeez, I did go to elmentriey skool. :tongue1:

No they won't. Try it...PLEASE! it's the only way you'll believe it I can tell.

Put the ice in first or last, fill to top with water and wait. IT WILL NOT OVERFLOW.:bat:

 

[Said1]

No they won't. Try it...PLEASE! it's the only way you'll believe it I can tell.

Put the ice in first or last, fill to top with water and wait. IT WILL NOT OVERFLOW.:bat:

Sigh. Perhaps I didn't word it right. But you can try it at home, too. Fill a glass with water, to the top, add ice, the water will spill over the side. Fill a glass with water, to the top, add more water, it spills over the side. Right? :tongue1:

 

[deaddude]

No they won't. Try it...PLEASE! it's the only way you'll believe it I can tell.

Put the ice in first or last, fill to top with water and wait. IT WILL NOT OVERFLOW.:bat:

If you fill it to the brim with water and then put ice in there are two possibilties.

One: you put some ice in to an already full cup, the added ice displaces some water causing over flow.

Two: you put ice into already full cup the added ice displaces some water but does not over flow because the surface tension of the water keeps it from over flowing. Water has incredibly high surface tension and you can actualy have water slightly over the brim of the cup without spilling because of that surface tension. Note even with the surface tension you cannot add much ice, one cube at the most.

 

[manu1959]

if man is causing it why do they not know how to fix it?

and if it is warming why has this year not been the hottest on record world wide?

 

[Said1]

if man is causing it why do they not know how to fix it?

and if it is warming why has this year not been the hottest on record world wide?

:gross2:

 

[manu1959]

Sigh. Perhaps I didn't word it right. But you can try it at home, too. Fill a glass with water, to the top, add ice, the water will spill over the side. Fill a glass with water, to the top, add more water, it spills over the side. Right? :tongue1:

i think what he means is put two ice cubes and fill the glass with water to the top

when the ice melts will the glass overflow? yes or no.

you will find out that the answer is no.

then he extrapolates that the ice on the planet thus will not flood the existing land mass...problem is the glaciers and ice are not in the water but on land so if it all melts it will flow to the sea and raise the level

fill a glass full and hold two ice cubs above it in a strainer....glass will overflow

 

[Mr. P]

You misunderstood the experiment Said1. Place cubes in the glass (they represent the frozen sea, the polar ice) fill the glass with water to the top rim (that’s the sea). Then wait.

The ice melts, the fluid will not overflow. because it doesn't increase in volume.

 

[Said1]

You misunderstood the experiment Said1. Place cubes in the glass (they represent the frozen sea, the polar ice) fill the glass with water to the top rim (that’s the sea). Then wait.

The ice melts, the fluid will not overflow. because it doesn't increase in volume.

No I didn't. In my experiment, the ocean (glass of water) is full. If more is added, the amount will increase. Perhaps I should pay more attention when posting instead of throwing cusions at the cat.

Either way, like I said previously, I don't think that's a major issue at this point. Fresh water runoff could potentially reduce the oceans surface water salinity and there are other concerns about this, but it's late and you'll have to find your own link.

 

[Mr. P]

i think what he means is put two ice cubes and fill the glass with water to the top

when the ice melts will the glass overflow? yes or no.

you will find out that the answer is no.

then he extrapolates that the ice on the planet thus will not flood the existing land mass...problem is the glaciers and ice are not in the water but on land so if it all melts it will flow to the sea and raise the level

fill a glass full and hold two ice cubs above it in a strainer....glass will overflow

True, but I have tried to focus on the largest volume of ice, which I believe to be in the sea. In the sea it will have no significant result in increased level. Land mass Ice? That’s a different story. But then, how much of it is there?

 

[manu1959]

No I didn't. In my experiment, the ocean (glass of water) is full. If more is added, the amount will increase. Perhaps I should pay more attention when posting instead of throwing cusions at the cat.

Either way, like I said previously, I don't think that's a major issue at this point. Fresh water runoff could potentially reduce the oceans surface water salinity and there are other concerns about this, but it's late and you'll have to find your own link.

except as i said, if the ice is in the water then it won't overflow....

 

[Mr. P]

No I didn't. In my experiment, the ocean (glass of water) is full. If more is added, the amount will increase. Perhaps I should pay more attention when posting instead of throwing cusions at the cat.

Either way, like I said previously, I don't think that's a major issue at this point. Fresh water runoff could potentially reduce the oceans surface water salinity and there are other concerns about this, but it's late and you'll have to find your own link.

Cats! Hate em!

Water salinity, I heard that nature has a way of making the adjustments for this. Didn't seem to be a major problem as I recall. It's been along time ago though, I'd have to search for that info.

 

[Said1]

Cats! Hate em!

Water salinity, I heard that nature has a way of making the adjustments for this. Didn't seem to be a major problem as I recall. It's been along time ago though, I'd have to search for that info.

It's surface water, so who knows how much is too much (or at least I don't). At present, it isn't at a crissis point, that I know of.

Find a really boring link, I promise I'll read it.....later.

 

[Mr. P]

It's surface water, so who knows how much is too much (or at least I don't). At present, it isn't at a crissis point, that I know of.

Find a really boring link, I promise I'll read it.....later.

Hah! you find it I don't care about it, non-issue for me.

 

[Said1]

Hah! you find it I don't care about it, non-issue for me.

What, you're not interested in the saline levels of the oceans surface water?

 

[Bart]

If true, I am happy the ice age is over.

 

[PsuedoGhost]

You misunderstood the experiment Said1. Place cubes in the glass (they represent the frozen sea, the polar ice) fill the glass with water to the top rim (that’s the sea). Then wait.

The ice melts, the fluid will not overflow. because it doesn't increase in volume.

First of all, if we were to make such broad oversimplifications of the problems in our world, nothing would work and everything would fail, because according to you we can use a simple, incorrect model to determine how events occur.

This model is wrong for the following reasons:

1 - As already stated water has one of the highest surface tensions of any liquid, and as such can allow you to be technically over the brim of the glass, but still have no overflow because surface tension (caused by the polar nature of water) will prevent the water from flowing over.

2 - The model does not take into account the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of ice in the world is LAND ICE and not sea ice. Land ice melting has a HUGE effect on ocean levels. Land ice forming is responsible for the geologic records that we see that indicate that during the last glaciation, sea level was over 120 m below where it is today.

3 - Temperature effect. Believe it or not the sea level rises and falls with temperature. As the oceans get warmer, and the ice that does melt, melts it gains kinetic energy through the transfer of heat from electromagnetic radiation penetrating the earth's atmosphere. Gains in kinetic energy mean more random collisions between neighboring particles, thereby increasing the volume of the oceans.

In conclusion - Try again.

 

[Annie]

First of all, if we were to make such broad oversimplifications of the problems in our world, nothing would work and everything would fail, because according to you we can use a simple, incorrect model to determine how events occur.

This model is wrong for the following reasons:

1 - As already stated water has one of the highest surface tensions of any liquid, and as such can allow you to be technically over the brim of the glass, but still have no overflow because surface tension (caused by the polar nature of water) will prevent the water from flowing over.

2 - The model does not take into account the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of ice in the world is LAND ICE and not sea ice. Land ice melting has a HUGE effect on ocean levels. Land ice forming is responsible for the geologic records that we see that indicate that during the last glaciation, sea level was over 120 m below where it is today.

3 - Temperature effect. Believe it or not the sea level rises and falls with temperature. As the oceans get warmer, and the ice that does melt, melts it gains kinetic energy through the transfer of heat from electromagnetic radiation penetrating the earth's atmosphere. Gains in kinetic energy mean more random collisions between neighboring particles, thereby increasing the volume of the oceans.

In conclusion - Try again.

How about, you post the preferred scenario?

 

[PsuedoGhost]

How about, you post the preferred scenario?

I expected that I would not get a worthwhile response from this board.

 

[Mr. P]

I expected that I would not get a worthwhile response from this board.

Not without links..I posted my opinion based on what I see. You made claims, based in science I assume? Show us.

 

[PsuedoGhost]

Not without links..I posted my opinion based on what I see. You made claims, based in science I assume? Show us.

Sea level: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level
Thermal expansion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion
Antarctica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica
Surface Tension: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension

The evidence is there. If you refuse to accept it, thats not my problem.