Do you believe in gobal warming?

[Mr. P]

Sea level: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level
Thermal expansion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion
Antarctica: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica
Surface Tension: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension

The evidence is there. If you refuse to accept it, thats not my problem.

Oh yeah, it's there alright just not what you presented really.

You're not really gonna use wikipedia to convence me the sky is falling are you chicken little? BTW it didn't refute what I said. Try again.

 

[PsuedoGhost]

Oh yeah, it's there alright just not what you presented really.

You're not really gonna use wikipedia to convence me the sky is falling are you chicken little? BTW it didn't refute what I said. Try again.

Oh its all there... Again whether or not you accept what has been laid out before you is your choice. The science speaks for itself. Sea level will rise as the ice caps melt. It's not just science that states that, its common sense.

 

[Mr. P]

Oh its all there... Again whether or not you accept what has been laid out before you is your choice. The science speaks for itself. Sea level will rise as the ice caps melt. It's not just science that states that, its common sense.

Yeah and Florida will be under water too..Yep..

 

[MGB]

Florida will be under water too..

See? The news is not ALL bad!

 

[Annie]

Florida will be under water too..

See? The news is not ALL bad!

I guess the smiley is to illustrate your 'openmindedness'?

 

[PsuedoGhost]

Yeah and Florida will be under water too..Yep..

Did I say anything about which coastal areas will be inundated?

But go ahead, continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend everything will be ok. As usual, it will take policy makers far too long to do anything about the situation until we start noticing the retreat of our coastlines.

Final thoughts: Global warming is happening. Sea level will rise. Whether thats caused by human intervention or natural means is still up in the air.

 

[Mr. P]

Did I say anything about which coastal areas will be inundated?

But go ahead, continue to stick your head in the sand and pretend everything will be ok. As usual, it will take policy makers far too long to do anything about the situation until we start noticing the retreat of our coastlines.

Final thoughts: Global warming is happening. Sea level will rise. Whether thats caused by human intervention or natural means is still up in the air.

No you didn't say anthing about that, but some of the sky is falling folks have.
Not in this thread, but in the Chicken Little movement.

 

[glockmail]

So do I, but thinking that 6 billion people on the planet pumping billions of tonnes of crap into the atmosphere and that NOT affecting the way the sun's heat is trapped on the Earth's surface etc is just head in the sand thinking IMO. Next time you light a fire, get somebody to try and shine a torch light through the smoke and see what happens. Also, the ozone depletion over the Antarctic has been proven to be there, and CFCs seem to be the problem in that regard...

All the crap we put in is a spit in the bucket compared with volcanic action. Besides, it all makes plants grow faster, so the system is self-balancing.

 

[theHawk]

First of all, if we were to make such broad oversimplifications of the problems in our world, nothing would work and everything would fail, because according to you we can use a simple, incorrect model to determine how events occur.

This model is wrong for the following reasons:

1 - As already stated water has one of the highest surface tensions of any liquid, and as such can allow you to be technically over the brim of the glass, but still have no overflow because surface tension (caused by the polar nature of water) will prevent the water from flowing over.

2 - The model does not take into account the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of ice in the world is LAND ICE and not sea ice. Land ice melting has a HUGE effect on ocean levels. Land ice forming is responsible for the geologic records that we see that indicate that during the last glaciation, sea level was over 120 m below where it is today.

3 - Temperature effect. Believe it or not the sea level rises and falls with temperature. As the oceans get warmer, and the ice that does melt, melts it gains kinetic energy through the transfer of heat from electromagnetic radiation penetrating the earth's atmosphere. Gains in kinetic energy mean more random collisions between neighboring particles, thereby increasing the volume of the oceans.

In conclusion - Try again.

Landmass Ice has been melting since the last Ice Age. At this point I don't think there is anything we can do to stop it. If you're that worried about it move away from the coast.

 

[theHawk]

Here's an interesting article :

A new NASA-funded study finds that predicted increases in precipitation due to warmer air temperatures from greenhouse gas emissions may actually increase sea ice volume in the Antarctic’s Southern Ocean. This adds new evidence of potential asymmetry between the two poles, and may be an indication that climate change processes may have different impact on different areas of the globe.


..........................


Typically, warming of the climate leads to increased melting rates of sea ice cover and increased precipitation rates. However, in the Southern Ocean, with increased precipitation rates and deeper snow, the additional load of snow becomes so heavy that it pushes the Antarctic sea ice below sea level. This results in even more and even thicker sea ice when the snow refreezes as more ice. Therefore, the paper indicates that some climate processes, like warmer air temperatures increasing the amount of sea ice, may go against what we would normally believe would occur.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2005/sea_ice.html

 

[Mr. P]

All the crap we put in is a spit in the bucket compared with volcanic action. Besides, it all makes plants grow faster, so the system is self-balancing.

And has been naturally changing for what, millions of years? We can't stop Mother Nature, but we can twist these changes to hold the USA responsible for them it seems.

 

[deaddude]

All the crap we put in is a spit in the bucket compared with volcanic action. Besides, it all makes plants grow faster, so the system is self-balancing.

Um.. the fact that we are simultaneously putting crap into the atmosphere and are destroying high concentrations of plant life at a fabulous rate would seem to unbalance it.

 

[Mr. P]

Um.. the fact that we are simultaneously putting crap into the atmosphere and are destroying high concentrations of plant life at a fabulous rate would seem to unbalance it.

Who is "we"?

 

[PsuedoGhost]

All the crap we put in is a spit in the bucket compared with volcanic action. Besides, it all makes plants grow faster, so the system is self-balancing.

There are feedback systems which should eventually bring the Earth back into line over time if we were to step aside and leave it alone completely. We really have no idea though what the implications are for these CO2 levels...

 

[glockmail]

Um.. the fact that we are simultaneously putting crap into the atmosphere and are destroying high concentrations of plant life at a fabulous rate would seem to unbalance it.

One acre of old growth trees grow very slowly relative to 1/2 acre of replacements.

 

[glockmail]

There are feedback systems which should eventually bring the Earth back into line over time if we were to step aside and leave it alone completely. We really have no idea though what the implications are for these CO2 levels...

So I take it that you are an enthusiatic supporter of nuclear power? Is there a better way to reduce CO2 emissions?

 

[deaddude]

One acre of old growth trees grow very slowly relative to 1/2 acre of replacements.

Yes, but slash burning rainforest and replacing it with farm land that is barren after 5 years does unbalance your equation.

 

[glockmail]

Yes, but slash burning rainforest and replacing it with farm land that is barren after 5 years does unbalance your equation.

What are they doing after 5 years, spraying the dirt with RoundUp? If left fallow then it would revert back to forest.

 

[Said1]

What are they doing after 5 years, spraying the dirt with RoundUp? If left fallow then it would revert back to forest.

The farms fail then then the land is used for cattle grazing. This doesn't last very long either, totally destorying it. Desertification.

Apparently the aboriginal people practiced slash and burn, but let the land recover, this process isn't happening, for the most part now.

In Brazil, the governmet tried to empty out the slums in Reo by giving away land for people to farm (or land grants, I forget which). The name of the project escapes me, but the term 'Shift Cultivators" rings a bell. Anyway, it turned out to be a really bad idea.

 

[bobn]

All the crap we put in is a spit in the bucket compared with volcanic action. Besides, it all makes plants grow faster, so the system is self-balancing.

The climate is not self-balancing. It's a system that can change state at the drop of a hat. It's more chaotic than stable. Throughout it's history it is constantly shifting state, going in and out of ice ages, changing atmospheric composition, etc.

Life is simply clinging on, and often many species are wiped out when the climate shifts to a new state.

Between state shifts are short-lived periods of stability. We are in one now, but it won't last forever in the long term.

Eventually something will occur to push the climate into a new state. Who knows how the climate will react to co2 levels which haven't been seen for millions of years. Will that be enough of a push?