Zone1 Do You Agree With This Woman?

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I absolutely do. Without a governor, Man becomes very evil very quickly. We are watching it play out in this country today

 

[Oddball]

Disagree.

For the evil to exist in NK, China, Cuba, Venezuela, etcetera to exist, the good people -who easily outnumber the commies 20-1- have to sit on their hands and allow themselves to be cowed.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

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No, I don't agree with her.

I believe that humanity's natural state is self governance.

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[deannalw]

I don't believe all humans are evil, but do believe we are each capable of evil.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Disagree.

For the evil to exist in NK, China, Cuba, Venezuela, etcetera to exist, the good people -who easily outnumber the commies 20-1- have to sit on their hands and allow themselves to be cowed.

How do you know they are "good.". Are we good? We tolerate the MURDER of 60 MILLION babies in this country. Anyone who actually DOES anything is killed.

The German population KNEW what was going on and did nothing.

When Abraham challenged God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if there were 5 righteous, God said He would. There were not 5 righteous

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

And Jesus said, "there is NONE GOOD, EXCEPT YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN.". I believe Jesus.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

I don't believe all humans are evil, but do believe we are each capable of evil.

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I had the same moral guidance as my siblings. Why did three of us turn out okay, moral and generous and five of my siblings turned out evil? I do know that one of my siblings attempted to sell his soul to the devil. The devil didn't like his terms.

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[OhPleaseJustQuit]

How do you know they are "good.". Are we good? We tolerate the MURDER of 60 MILLION babies in this country. Anyone who actually DOES anything is killed.

The German population KNEW what was going on and did nothing.

When Abraham challenged God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if there were 5 righteous, God said He would. There were not 5 righteous

.

Agree that those who resist the evil are rare.

Evil is the heavily trodden, and therefore clearer, easier, path.

.

 

[BreezeWood]

.... who's kidding who, there is a clean slate at birth we make our own destinies over time if truly successful the free spirit is given admission to the everlasting - that's why the balance on the individual level is for - goodness.

problem is making it all the way - called greed. for themselves - paterfamilias.

 

[Mac-7]

I don't believe all humans are evil, but do believe we are each capable of evil.

Thats what she is saying

God gives us free will

But our natural condition is sin

We must all learn to be good

 

[Oddball]

How do you know they are "good.". Are we good? We tolerate the MURDER of 60 MILLION babies in this country. Anyone who actually DOES anything is killed.

The German population KNEW what was going on and did nothing.

When Abraham challenged God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah if there were 5 righteous, God said He would. There were not 5 righteous

Remember a little quote about the triumph of evil?

 

[deannalw]

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I had the same moral guidance as my siblings. Why did three of us turn out okay, moral and generous and five of my siblings turned out evil? I do know that one of my siblings attempted to sell his soul to the devil. The devil didn't like his terms.

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That's a riddle, to be sure. Kind of makes the "nature vs nurture" argument null and void, doesn't it? It's the same with me and my sis and brother. We share the same parents, upbringing, stories, and yet you couldn't find 3 people that differ as wildly in just about everything as us.

I tried to trade my soul to this dude for an 18 pk of beer, but he took a look, grimaced and said get the fuck outta here with that raggedy thing.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

"Give me your children and in 10 years I will have the society" -- Adolf Hitler

Will children, raised without a moral code, be "good"?

 

[Blues Man]

Evil is a manmade concept.

Good cannot exist without evil.

We create evil by declaring what is good.

The natural world is neither good not evil it just is.

Humans think they are somehow removed from the natural world and this is root of discord.

 

[alang1216]

I absolutely do. Without a governor, Man becomes very evil very quickly. We are watching it play out in this country today

I believe man is naturally good. Children can be stubborn and willful but they generally want to please their parents and, when they are older, their peers. By definition parents are good since they are the role models for young children so if a child learns, what other would is 'evil' it is often what they are told not what they naturally are. Sure, some are sociopaths but those are very uncommon.

 

[buttercup]

There's clearly some confusion on this thread, some people are saying they disagree with her, but I think that's because they're thinking of the word "good" in terms of a worldy standard. If one looks at things through that lens, (human standard) then it's understandable that they think that most people are "good."

But the true standard and the only one that ultimately matters is God's... and God's standard is perfection.

I agree with her, but I think she's leaving out something important.

Yes, she's right that humans are not naturally good, but we do have a conscience, so we have some understanding of right and wrong. So as humans we have two things within us: our fallen human nature (not good) and our conscience (good.) Those two things are often in conflict with each other.

The problem is that many people let their human nature "win" out over their conscience, and they do things they know are wrong, and they do the very things they would never want done to themselves. (lie, cheat, be unkind, etc)

I've mentioned this before, but I think anyone who's interested in this topic should read the book Mere Christianity, by C.S Lewis. Don't let the title fool you, it's an excellent book, and he explains all of this so well.

We all have free will, so it's up to each of us to decide how we want to live....according to our selfish base desires, or by the higher part of ourselves that is God's law imprinted on our hearts. (Romans 2:15)

Unfortunately, it's possible to damage one's conscience, to the point where it's barely even there anymore. I think that's what happens with sociopaths or psychopaths, they no longer have a functioning conscience, and when that happens, anything goes. (I'm sure there's more to it than that, but that's at least part of it.)

I know what the atheists and agnostics are going to say in response to this, btw. We'll see if I'm right about that.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

There's clearly some confusion on this thread, some people are saying they disagree with her, but I think that's because they're thinking of the word "good" in terms of a worldy standard. If one looks at things through that lens, (human standard) then it's understandable that they think that most people are "good."

But the true standard and the only one that ultimately matters is God's... and God's standard is perfection.

I agree with her, but I think she's leaving out something important.

Yes, she's right that humans are not naturally good, but we do have a conscience, so we have some understanding of right and wrong. So as humans we have two things within us: our fallen human nature (not good) and our conscience (good.) Those two things are often in conflict with each other.

The problem is that many people let their human nature "win" out over their conscience, and they do things they know are wrong, and they do the very things they would never want done to themselves. (lie, cheat, be unkind, etc)

I've mentioned this before, but I think anyone who's interested in this topic should read the book Mere Christianity, by C.S Lewis. Don't let the title fool you, it's an excellent book, and he explains all of this so well.

We all have free will, so it's up to each of us to decide how we want to live....according to our selfish base desires, or by the higher part of ourselves that is God's law imprinted on our hearts. (Romans 2:15)

Unfortunately, it's possible to damage one's conscience, to the point where it's barely even there anymore. I think that's what happens with sociopaths or psychopaths, they no longer have a functioning conscience, and when that happens, anything goes. (I'm sure there's more to it than that, but that's at least part of it.)

I know what the atheists and agnostics are going to say in response to this, btw. We'll see if I'm right about that.

Atheists generally believe (always believe actually) THEY are good apart from God, but what they don't see is they still carry the remnants of their Christian culture) heritage.

Every culture sees themselves as "good ." This is the problem with fallen Man. We all took of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We decide on our own what constitutes "good and evil." Only the Christian in a continual state of repentance is willing to submit his/her will to God and let God set the standard of good and evil.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And Jesus said, "there is NONE GOOD, EXCEPT YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN.". I believe Jesus.

Jesus Thought He Was Talking About Himself

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Jesus Thought He Was Talking About Himself

Sorry, no. You're not much of a "sage," are you

He understood His Father set the standard of good and evil. He does nothing apart from the will of the Father.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Reads like another woe is me for being a human being thread.

I often find that those who scream the loudest about freewill are often the same folks who are perfectly content to live in a slave society out of fear of the actual fundamentals of freedom and taking responsibility for their actions and life choices.

It's so much easier and more convenient to blame or to leverage things on deities, isn't it? It's a very provincial means of dealing with things and to avoid responsibility for oneself as an Individual by pointing the finger toward humanity as a collective.