Do We Really Need Guns?

[westwall]

PGreen.....I am curious...I have a thread up about a woman who was murdered by an ex boyfriend, with a gun, in a gun free zone...Nordstroms....I am wondering...since it had been going on for a year, and during that time he broke some of her ribs and stuck a gun in her mouth and with this...the police couldn't stop him, and had she had a restraining order she would still be dead...since he was willing to murder her and himself....

What would you do to help this woman if you don't think she needed a gun to stop this nut? Not one gun grabber will answer that question...and since you want that woman to be disarmed...what should she have done to save her own life since this falls into my rule number 3 for reasons to own a gun.....#3 When the government, can't or won't protect you....?

Will you be that wise gun grabber and explain why you don't want women in this situation to have a gun....?

Wrong question.

The question is not why she "needs" a gun to stop this nut. The question is why this nut "needs" a gun to be one.

Well, the nut will use a hammer, or a knife, or an axe or any of a whole host of weapons if he can't get a gun. The worst domestic killing in New York is still the asshole who lit a gallon of gas in the entrance of a nightclub and murdered 70 odd people.

An asshole who is intent on murder is going to do so. The proper idea is to let those who are the targets at least have a chance to save themselves don't you think? I guarantee you that the innocents burned to death were probably not thinking "thank god he didn't have a gun!"

 

[Pogo]

PGreen.....I am curious...I have a thread up about a woman who was murdered by an ex boyfriend, with a gun, in a gun free zone...Nordstroms....I am wondering...since it had been going on for a year, and during that time he broke some of her ribs and stuck a gun in her mouth and with this...the police couldn't stop him, and had she had a restraining order she would still be dead...since he was willing to murder her and himself....

What would you do to help this woman if you don't think she needed a gun to stop this nut? Not one gun grabber will answer that question...and since you want that woman to be disarmed...what should she have done to save her own life since this falls into my rule number 3 for reasons to own a gun.....#3 When the government, can't or won't protect you....?

Will you be that wise gun grabber and explain why you don't want women in this situation to have a gun....?

Wrong question.

The question is not why she "needs" a gun to stop this nut. The question is why this nut "needs" a gun to be one.

Well, the nut will use a hammer, or a knife, or an axe or any of a whole host of weapons if he can't get a gun. The worst domestic killing in New York is still the asshole who lit a gallon of gas in the entrance of a nightclub and murdered 70 odd people.

An asshole who is intent on murder is going to do so. The proper idea is to let those who are the targets at least have a chance to save themselves don't you think? I guarantee you that the innocents burned to death were probably not thinking "thank god he didn't have a gun!"

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.

Erroneous premise assumes that murder was the objective and the gun merely a tool.

 

[Pogo]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

Yeah, what could be "smarter" than a hail of bullets in a pressurized cabin at six miles high.

Gee. I don't know. What do Sky Marshalls carry? Well, well. Looky here. They use the .357 SIG and their issued ammunition is Speer Gold Dot. They plan on replacing them with frangible bullets, but for over ten years they've been plying the skies with high velocity bullets that have no problem punching a hole through the skin of an aircraft. What idiots!

Of course the fact that explosive decompression is a figment of the movie makers imagination probably didn't cross your tiny little mind did it....

Could you quote the part where I said "explosive"?


Didn't think so.

 

[westwall]

PGreen.....I am curious...I have a thread up about a woman who was murdered by an ex boyfriend, with a gun, in a gun free zone...Nordstroms....I am wondering...since it had been going on for a year, and during that time he broke some of her ribs and stuck a gun in her mouth and with this...the police couldn't stop him, and had she had a restraining order she would still be dead...since he was willing to murder her and himself....

What would you do to help this woman if you don't think she needed a gun to stop this nut? Not one gun grabber will answer that question...and since you want that woman to be disarmed...what should she have done to save her own life since this falls into my rule number 3 for reasons to own a gun.....#3 When the government, can't or won't protect you....?

Will you be that wise gun grabber and explain why you don't want women in this situation to have a gun....?

Wrong question.

The question is not why she "needs" a gun to stop this nut. The question is why this nut "needs" a gun to be one.

Well, the nut will use a hammer, or a knife, or an axe or any of a whole host of weapons if he can't get a gun. The worst domestic killing in New York is still the asshole who lit a gallon of gas in the entrance of a nightclub and murdered 70 odd people.

An asshole who is intent on murder is going to do so. The proper idea is to let those who are the targets at least have a chance to save themselves don't you think? I guarantee you that the innocents burned to death were probably not thinking "thank god he didn't have a gun!"

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.

Erroneous premise assumes that murder was the objective and the gun merely a tool.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Only a moron can possibly think that murder isn't the motive when the asshat takes a gun to attack his ex.

 

[westwall]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

Yeah, what could be "smarter" than a hail of bullets in a pressurized cabin at six miles high.

Gee. I don't know. What do Sky Marshalls carry? Well, well. Looky here. They use the .357 SIG and their issued ammunition is Speer Gold Dot. They plan on replacing them with frangible bullets, but for over ten years they've been plying the skies with high velocity bullets that have no problem punching a hole through the skin of an aircraft. What idiots!

Of course the fact that explosive decompression is a figment of the movie makers imagination probably didn't cross your tiny little mind did it....

Could you quote the part where I said "explosive"?


Didn't think so.

Then why bother mentioning the fact that the cabin is pressurized. Just admit you don't know shit and walk away. You're just flailing now, fool.

 

[Pogo]

Actually, only a moron thinks his reasoning is the only one possible, end of story.

 

[westwall]

Actually, only a moron thinks his reasoning is the only one possible, end of story.

I agree. That describes you to a "T"

 

[Pogo]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

Yeah, what could be "smarter" than a hail of bullets in a pressurized cabin at six miles high.

Gee. I don't know. What do Sky Marshalls carry? Well, well. Looky here. They use the .357 SIG and their issued ammunition is Speer Gold Dot. They plan on replacing them with frangible bullets, but for over ten years they've been plying the skies with high velocity bullets that have no problem punching a hole through the skin of an aircraft. What idiots!

Of course the fact that explosive decompression is a figment of the movie makers imagination probably didn't cross your tiny little mind did it....

Could you quote the part where I said "explosive"?


Didn't think so.

Then why bother mentioning the fact that the cabin is pressurized. Just admit you don't know shit and walk away. You're just flailing now, fool.

Ah yes, I see what you're getting at. If a moron thought the solution to the threat of lethal projectiles flying through the air around innocent people is more lethal projectiles flying through the air around innocent people, why would they think doing so in a pressurized cabin at 37,000 feet isn't even more dangerous.

Once again I have overestimated my adversary's intelligence. Thanks for the reality check.

Hey, next time you're on a flight whyn'cha open the wing window. Tell the stewardess you "need more air". Be sure to shoot a video for us.

 

[skookerasbil]

Evidently, Americans think we need guns...........on Black Friday, guns sold in record numbers........background checks 3X every second!!


Gun sales boom on Black Friday - CNN.com

Sorta tells ya all y0u have to know about the gun grabber assholes.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Pogo,

I think that West is trying to explain that shootouts in commercial airline cabins mid flight is a good thing. Only us left wing commies and "gun grabbers' don't see that. The way If figure it, if shootouts in airplane cabins are good, grenades must be even better!

 

[Vandalshandle]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

Yeah, what could be "smarter" than a hail of bullets in a pressurized cabin at six miles high.

Gee. I don't know. What do Sky Marshalls carry? Well, well. Looky here. They use the .357 SIG and their issued ammunition is Speer Gold Dot. They plan on replacing them with frangible bullets, but for over ten years they've been plying the skies with high velocity bullets that have no problem punching a hole through the skin of an aircraft. What idiots!

Of course the fact that explosive decompression is a figment of the movie makers imagination probably didn't cross your tiny little mind did it....

Could you quote the part where I said "explosive"?


Didn't think so.

Evidently, Americans think we need guns...........on Black Friday, guns sold in record numbers........background checks 3X every second!!

They also sell about 25 millions of pounds of fruit cake over the Christmas holidays.....


Gun sales boom on Black Friday - CNN.com

Sorta tells ya all y0u have to know about the gun grabber assholes.

They also sell about 25 million pounds of fruit cake over the Christmas holidays.....

 

[skookerasbil]

By the way..........the gun grabbers assholes haven't been this irrelevant since..................ready for this.............1959!!!


Gallup Poll Support for gun control is waning opposition to handgun ban at all-time high


lol............74% are against a gun ban!!

 

[Vandalshandle]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

What happened to me?
I grew up.

 

[Vandalshandle]

By the way..........the gun grabbers assholes haven't been this irrelevant since..................ready for this.............1959!!!


Gallup Poll Support for gun control is waning opposition to handgun ban at all-time high


lol............74% are against a gun ban!!

And how many are FOR a gun ban? I ask that question because in the years that I have been on this board, I have never once seen a poster advocate a gun ban.

 

[westwall]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

What happened to me?
I grew up.

So long as you rely on others for your protection, you're no different than any other 12 year old child.

 

[skookerasbil]

By the way..........the gun grabbers assholes haven't been this irrelevant since..................ready for this.............1959!!!


Gallup Poll Support for gun control is waning opposition to handgun ban at all-time high


lol............74% are against a gun ban!!

And how many are FOR a gun ban? I ask that question because in the years that I have been on this board, I have never once seen a poster advocate a gun ban.

s0n...........what that means is that a huge majority in America think that people have a right to NOT defend their home with ghey wiffle ball bats.

 

[Pogo]

Actually, only a moron thinks his reasoning is the only one possible, end of story.

I agree. That describes you to a "T"

Too bad there's no "T" in my name...

For those just joining us in mid-flight a modicum of explanation might be in order for why we're on a plane. Another poster recounted how his brother is so diaper-rashed about being denied his little firearm pacifier in the sky that he's taken his balls and vowed to bring them to their corporate knees by withholding his ticket revenue. That's the mentality you're trying to defend.

--- which brings us to the other point, the assumption that a motive of "murder" precedes one, on the basis that, after all, it was the end result...

There's no question that nuts plus firearms equal violence, including murder. But that's not their primary visceral motivation. The primary visceral motivation is power. The power to inflict carnage, to know that you personally can cause those of whose power you're jealous to flee for their lives and duck for cover, even from a distance. The power to inflict pain and suffering, to see the visual and aural feedback of gushing blood and targets begging for their lives, "as seen on TV" (and movies and video games and whatever other manifestations of pop culture). That's why we see shootings in workplaces and schools. Personal power. That's also why hunters are not gun violence perpetrators; hunting is not about power.

And that's also why the countless manifestations of gun violence that do not end up as murder is about the same thing: pull a gun, put it into the helpless victim's mouth and threaten to pull the trigger, but stop short and live to do it again another day. That's power.

And that's also why these gun nuts go berserk on random people. Murder is personal; X kills Y because of some perceived personal affront. Random people however have no such relationship. But they scream and bleed and beg and run for their lives just the same as an acquaintance does. Again --- power.

Yeah it ends in murder --- some of the time. But that's not where it starts.

 

[BlackSand]

And how many are FOR a gun ban? I ask that question because in the years that I have been on this board, I have never once seen a poster advocate a gun ban.

The thread is titled "Do We Really Need Guns" ... Please read the OP in regards to the absence of a need to have firearms in America ... And get back to us when you catch up.

It's my first thread here, and I want to start with the issue, that worries me a lot.

Gun owners always claim that they own guns for self protection, even though the guns in their homes impose a much greater risk to their lives than an intruder. They also state they need guns to protect themselves from the government and from tthr police. Oh, seriously? Other argument for guns is hunting. Food production in the US is quite complex and capable of providing all types of foods to all parts of the country. And, if someone is too poor to buy food to eat, they are too poor to buy weapons. So what for?! Explain me, please.

I truly believe, that guns only do harm There is no use for guns in our society. The 2nd amendment was made in a time where guns were necessary because of the British.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Most of us outgrow our security blankets by 3 years old. Many NRA types still need it years later. My brother won't go to the 7/11 without his 1911. He even stopped flying because the government won't let him take it aboard a commercial airliner in case he finds it necessary to get into a crossfire in the cabin at 7,000 feet.

Kudos to your brother for taking responsibility for himself and his surroundings. He sounds like a smart, righteous man. What happened to you?

What happened to me?
I grew up.

So long as you rely on others for your protection, you're no different than any other 12 year old child.

Oh, I don't think so, West. I am a uniformed Sheriff's Auxiliary volunteer. I do two shifts a week, unarmed, except for a radio. I drive the same car as the deputies drive. I am quite sure that I am doing a hell of a lot more to protect my community than you are.

 

[westwall]

Actually, only a moron thinks his reasoning is the only one possible, end of story.

I agree. That describes you to a "T"

Too bad there's no "T" in my name...

For those just joining us in mid-flight a modicum of explanation might be in order for why we're on a plane. Another poster recounted how his brother is so diaper-rashed about being denied his little firearm pacifier in the sky that he's taken his balls and vowed to bring them to their corporate knees by withholding his ticket revenue. That's the mentality you're trying to defend.

--- which brings us to the other point, the assumption that a motive of "murder" precedes one, on the basis that, after all, it was the end result...

There's no question that nuts plus firearms equal violence, including murder. But that's not their primary visceral motivation. The primary visceral motivation is power. The power to inflict carnage, to know that you personally can cause those of whose power you're jealous to flee for their lives and duck for cover, even from a distance. The power to inflict pain and suffering, to see the visual and aural feedback of gushing blood and targets begging for their lives, "as seen on TV" (and movies and video games and whatever other manifestations of pop culture). That's why we see shootings in workplaces and schools. Personal power. That's also why hunters are not gun violence perpetrators; hunting is not about power.

And that's also why the countless manifestations of gun violence that do not end up as murder is about the same thing: pull a gun, put it into the helpless victim's mouth and threaten to pull the trigger, but stop short and live to do it again another day. That's power.

And that's also why these gun nuts go berserk on random people. Murder is personal; X kills Y because of some perceived personal affront. Random people however have no such relationship. But they scream and bleed and beg and run for their lives just the same as an acquaintance does. Again --- power.

Yeah it ends in murder --- some of the time. But that's not where it starts.

Until the cost/benefit analysis pencils out that guns are doing more harm than good.....which will be never at the current rate of legitimate use to misuse, you're arguing the unarguable. The facts are that less then one tenth of one percent of all the firearms in the US are used to commit crimes. That's a fact.

It's also a fact that 80% of ALL violent crime is committed by 10 percent of the criminal population. If you really cared about reducing gun violence you would target the bad people doing the bad things and either kill them or incarcerate them forever.

the fact that you don't even bother to try and deal with the real problem tells me that you are merely interested in banning guns for a political goal, and not a violence reduction goal.