Do the poor earn their income?

[WatertheTree]

I had a family of 5 on under 20k at one point. They pay federal taxes, I have the pay stubs to prove it, it's about 20% (FICA and SSI) ... Now I did get a refund at the end of the year (most of the time around 4K) that included the child tax credit (the third and successive children don't count in that formula). The money was like Christmas to us (our Christmas was at that rather lacking in things and long in love and togetherness) ... The poor pay taxes if they work

I would like to see the stubs that say you paid FICA. I think you are mistaken. So far as SS and Medicaid those are not taxes. Those are wealth transfer programs. Meaning SS steals from you and gives it to a generation that lived in the best of times with the best retirement packages (some people never get enough and have to eat the young), and Medicaid steals from you and gives it to big pharma and health industry.

One thing is for certian, we should all know what we are talking about. Otherwise how will we have any kind of positive effect on our lives?

 

[syrenn]

I asked you first.

They dont pay any federal tax if they only make 22K.

So that's how much you think they should pay?

I thought you're post above said you wanted them to pay 10% or about $2,231. Am I reading that correctly?

the fact is... they don't pay any federal tax.

I would want everyone to pay the same thing in tax. That is not the way things are...but that is how i would have it.

the thread is not about taxes or who pays what..

the question is..

do the poor.... not the working poor.... EARN their income.

 

[DontBeStupid]

No one wants to pay taxes....see how that works?

I am for flat tax...everyone pays the same on income. No loop holes, no exemptions....no credits...no nothing. You make it... it gets taxed at rate X.

you are still dodging the question. they are asking for a % not a talking point and runaround.

last time and then i am just moving on to something else.

That is my answer.....it is not dogging your question. You asked how much they should be taxed. My answer....they should be taxed the same as everyone should be taxed. The same % on what ever income they receive.

Is that to hard a concept for you?

So, for someone making $22K a year, who already pays $1,300 in payroll taxes and about $1600 in sales taxes (depending on the state), you now want them to pay $2,200 in federal income taxes. At least. Grande total of 23% tax rate and $16,900 worth of purchasing power per year.

Anyone else miss "compassionate conservatives"?

 

[syrenn]

I had a family of 5 on under 20k at one point. They pay federal taxes, I have the pay stubs to prove it, it's about 20% (FICA and SSI) ... Now I did get a refund at the end of the year (most of the time around 4K) that included the child tax credit (the third and successive children don't count in that formula). The money was like Christmas to us (our Christmas was at that rather lacking in things and long in love and togetherness) ... The poor pay taxes if they work

You got back what you paid in.... bottom line is... you did not (actually) pay anything. Yes... the working poor pay tax...but they also get it all back in the end.


How about the ones who don't work...are they earning their income?

 

[Firehorse]

I don't know how we did it, how we survived, but we did. There was often a conversation about if it was better to have the extra $50 in each paycheck, or to have a large tax return at the end of the year. We always opted for the large payment because we could buy a 'luxury' or two with it, where as the extra $50 a paycheck would be swallowed up in everyday expenses.

The working poor need what they get.

The non-working poor (not willing to work) don't deserve sheit

 

[Nic_Driver]

They dont pay any federal tax if they only make 22K.

So that's how much you think they should pay?

I thought you're post above said you wanted them to pay 10% or about $2,231. Am I reading that correctly?

the fact is... they don't pay any federal tax.

I would want everyone to pay the same thing in tax. That is not the way things are...but that is how i would have it.

the thread is not about taxes or who pays what..

the question is..

do the poor.... not the working poor.... EARN their income.

A flat tax benefits the wealthy.

 

[syrenn]

So that's how much you think they should pay?

I thought you're post above said you wanted them to pay 10% or about $2,231. Am I reading that correctly?

the fact is... they don't pay any federal tax.

I would want everyone to pay the same thing in tax. That is not the way things are...but that is how i would have it.

the thread is not about taxes or who pays what..

the question is..

do the poor.... not the working poor.... EARN their income.

A flat tax benefits the wealthy.

it is fair.... everyone bleeds the same % of income.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I had a family of 5 on under 20k at one point. They pay federal taxes, I have the pay stubs to prove it, it's about 20% (FICA and SSI) ... Now I did get a refund at the end of the year (most of the time around 4K) that included the child tax credit (the third and successive children don't count in that formula). The money was like Christmas to us (our Christmas was at that rather lacking in things and long in love and togetherness) ... The poor pay taxes if they work

You got back what you paid in.... bottom line is... you did not (actually) pay anything. Yes... the working poor pay tax...but they also get it all back in the end.


How about the ones who don't work...are they earning their income?

You know, you've ranted about this for 10 pages now. CLEARLY, you believe they don't earn it. Fine. So what? Big deal? Why are you ranting and raving about a group of people who have ZERO assets and make only enough for basic subsistence? Why the class warfare? Why do you hate the poor?

 

[Nic_Driver]

the fact is... they don't pay any federal tax.

I would want everyone to pay the same thing in tax. That is not the way things are...but that is how i would have it.

the thread is not about taxes or who pays what..

the question is..

do the poor.... not the working poor.... EARN their income.

A flat tax benefits the wealthy.

it is fair.... everyone bleeds the same % of income.

A flat tax benefits the wealthy.

 

[Firehorse]

We did get everything back, but when your running paycheck to paycheck getting a refund months down the road is little concelation when your out diapers

 

[syrenn]

I had a family of 5 on under 20k at one point. They pay federal taxes, I have the pay stubs to prove it, it's about 20% (FICA and SSI) ... Now I did get a refund at the end of the year (most of the time around 4K) that included the child tax credit (the third and successive children don't count in that formula). The money was like Christmas to us (our Christmas was at that rather lacking in things and long in love and togetherness) ... The poor pay taxes if they work

You got back what you paid in.... bottom line is... you did not (actually) pay anything. Yes... the working poor pay tax...but they also get it all back in the end.


How about the ones who don't work...are they earning their income?

You know, you've ranted about this for 10 pages now. CLEARLY, you believe they don't earn it. Fine. So what? Big deal? Why are you ranting and raving about a group of people who have ZERO assets and make only enough for basic subsistence? Why the class warfare? Why do you hate the poor?

As i said.... this thread was put in when everyone was ranting and raving that the "rich" do not earn "their" income. If that was so... it begged the question.... do the poor earn theirs?


Clearly.... you are correct. They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

 

[syrenn]

We did get everything back, but when your running paycheck to paycheck getting a refund months down the road is little concelation when your out diapers

I know..... thank you for your honesty.

 

[Moonglow]

You got back what you paid in.... bottom line is... you did not (actually) pay anything. Yes... the working poor pay tax...but they also get it all back in the end.


How about the ones who don't work...are they earning their income?

You know, you've ranted about this for 10 pages now. CLEARLY, you believe they don't earn it. Fine. So what? Big deal? Why are you ranting and raving about a group of people who have ZERO assets and make only enough for basic subsistence? Why the class warfare? Why do you hate the poor?

As i said.... this thread was put in when everyone was ranting and raving that the "rich" do not earn "their" income. If that was so... it begged the question.... do the poor earn theirs?


Clearly.... you are correct. They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

many rich do not earn their money either.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Clearly.... you are correct.

Don't put words in my mouth.

They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

And those who can't work? What then?

I mean, you do know that the vast majority of this group we're talking about are seniors and single moms. Are you prepared to offer free day care so those moms can work?

 

[syrenn]

You know, you've ranted about this for 10 pages now. CLEARLY, you believe they don't earn it. Fine. So what? Big deal? Why are you ranting and raving about a group of people who have ZERO assets and make only enough for basic subsistence? Why the class warfare? Why do you hate the poor?

As i said.... this thread was put in when everyone was ranting and raving that the "rich" do not earn "their" income. If that was so... it begged the question.... do the poor earn theirs?


Clearly.... you are correct. They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

many rich do not earn their money either.

Its THEIR money though.

 

[Moonglow]

As i said.... this thread was put in when everyone was ranting and raving that the "rich" do not earn "their" income. If that was so... it begged the question.... do the poor earn theirs?


Clearly.... you are correct. They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

many rich do not earn their money either.

Its THEIR money though.

inherited monied given to a relative belongs to those that did earn it. And if you get welfare it is your monies.

 

[syrenn]

Clearly.... you are correct.

Don't put words in my mouth.

They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

And those who can't work? What then?

I mean, you do know that the vast majority of this group we're talking about are seniors and single moms. Are you prepared to offer free day care so those moms can work?

Six nice healthy women with the only excuse of no day care??? ... one takes care of the kids... the others who work can pay her for the child care....

whats the problem?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Clearly.... you are correct.

Don't put words in my mouth.

They do not earn their incomes...and should be made to earn any government check they receive.

And those who can't work? What then?

I mean, you do know that the vast majority of this group we're talking about are seniors and single moms. Are you prepared to offer free day care so those moms can work?

Six nice healthy women with the only excuse of no day care??? ... one takes care of the kids... the others who work can pay her for the child care....

whats the problem?

Uhm, this part:

the others who work can pay her for the child care

So, 5 women get a job paying $22K a year, which, after your new tax scheme, gives them $18,436 take home. They then pay the 6th woman $3500 per year for child care, which then leaves the women with $14,936 to spend, of which $1200 will be eaten up by sales taxes, so that leaves them $13,736 each. For them and their kids. The 6th woman gets $17,500, which after taxes is $14,665, and after sales taxes is $13,491 in purchasing power.

How are ANY of these women better off?

Honestly, do some math from time to time.

 

[Caroljo]

Don't put words in my mouth.



And those who can't work? What then?

I mean, you do know that the vast majority of this group we're talking about are seniors and single moms. Are you prepared to offer free day care so those moms can work?

Six nice healthy women with the only excuse of no day care??? ... one takes care of the kids... the others who work can pay her for the child care....

whats the problem?

Uhm, this part:

the others who work can pay her for the child care

So, 5 women get a job paying $22K a year, which, after your new tax scheme, gives them $18,436 take home. They then pay the 6th woman $3500 per year for child care, which then leaves the women with $14,936 to spend, of which $1200 will be eaten up by sales taxes, so that leaves them $13,736 each. For them and their kids. The 6th woman gets $17,500, which after taxes is $14,665, and after sales taxes is $13,491 in purchasing power.

How are ANY of these women better off?

Honestly, do some math from time to time.

Would you agree with her doing volunteer service (or community service) to pay for it? I be someone could come up with ideas for a mother to be able to do this....maybe volunteer at a day care where she could take her kids with her? There are so many places that could use volunteer work to help out, and many of the poor could do this. Would you agree with this???

 

[syrenn]

Don't put words in my mouth.



And those who can't work? What then?

I mean, you do know that the vast majority of this group we're talking about are seniors and single moms. Are you prepared to offer free day care so those moms can work?

Six nice healthy women with the only excuse of no day care??? ... one takes care of the kids... the others who work can pay her for the child care....

whats the problem?

Uhm, this part:

the others who work can pay her for the child care

So, 5 women get a job paying $22K a year, which, after your new tax scheme, gives them $18,436 take home. They then pay the 6th woman $3500 per year for child care, which then leaves the women with $14,936 to spend, of which $1200 will be eaten up by sales taxes, so that leaves them $13,736 each. For them and their kids. The 6th woman gets $17,500, which after taxes is $14,665, and after sales taxes is $13,491 in purchasing power.

How are ANY of these women better off?

Honestly, do some math from time to time.

How about they would have been better off not having children they cant afford. So again... you are saying they are better off NOT working and just sucking off the government teat....moaning about how poor they are.