CDZ Discussion Question About Immigration

[jwoodie]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Obama says yes,

So does Hillary.

 

[Auld Phart]

Only if they've completed the required paperwork first

 

[TNHarley]

Legal entry, I don't have a problem with. I might be ok with limiting entry and such until we could get our shit strait too

 

[TNHarley]

and DEFINATELY no refugees

 

[Uncensored2008]

We need to repeal the Kennedy "destroy America" bill.

Ted Kennedy altered American Immigration to ensure that the least educated and least productive people would have top priority for entry into the nation. That needs to be repealed.

 

[320 Years of History]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

I say that freedom of movement about the planet is an inalienable right that has nothing to do with political boundaries.

 

[Correll]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

Absolutely NOT.

 

[Correll]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

I say that freedom of movement about the planet is an inalienable right that has nothing to do with political boundaries.

That contradicts the RIght of National Sovereignty.

Which is an actual right.

 

[320 Years of History]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

I say that freedom of movement about the planet is an inalienable right that has nothing to do with political boundaries.

That contradicts the RIght of National Sovereignty.

Which is an actual right.

Well, in my mind, a natural right is more important than a legal right, and anything accruing from national sovereignty is a matter of legal rights rather than natural rights. Sovereignty is something that is recognized and mutually agreed upon by the parties involved, I suppose one could claim that a natural law, rather than a man made one, is what grants sovereignty to a given person or entity. That doesn't really seem applicable when it comes to nation states like the U.S. for there is nothing that naturally endowed Europeans, and thus us as their descendents, a natural right to the territory now called the U.S. The fact is that, while we will do nothing much to make amends for having done so, our forebears basically usurped/took the territory of North America from the people who were already in it for millennia before any European arrived.

 

[miketx]

Illegal aliens have you legal footing here and should be rounded up and executed.

 

[Correll]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

I say that freedom of movement about the planet is an inalienable right that has nothing to do with political boundaries.

That contradicts the RIght of National Sovereignty.

Which is an actual right.

Well, in my mind, a natural right is more important than a legal right, and anything accruing from national sovereignty is a matter of legal rights rather than natural rights. Sovereignty is something that is recognized and mutually agreed upon by the parties involved, I suppose one could claim that a natural law, rather than a man made one, is what grants sovereignty to a given person or entity. That doesn't really seem applicable when it comes to nation states like the U.S. for there is nothing that naturally endowed Europeans, and thus us as their descendents, a natural right to the territory now called the U.S. The fact is that, while we will do nothing much to make amends for having done so, our forebears basically usurped/took the territory of North America from the people who were already in it for millennia before any European arrived.

We, Americans, are a Nation and we have the same Rights as all other nations.

YOur lib "Original Sin" of US being "Europeans" or "Usurping land" does not mean we have fewer RIghts than anyone else.

We have the Right of National Sovereignty, which includes the Right to decide who we want to invite to be part of our Nation, or to NOT invite to be part of our nation.


As all other Nations have this Right also,

Your belief that all people have the "Right" to wander around where ever they want is not correct.

 

[miketx]

Europe thinks they do, and look at the fine mess those fools are in.

 

[Ellison]

There are several details you did not include in your question. Are you speaking of travel visas, work visas, school visas, residency, and so on? There are many ways for people to legally enter another country and I see no reason why we should stop issuing those documents.

 

[FA_Q2]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

I say that freedom of movement about the planet is an inalienable right that has nothing to do with political boundaries.

That contradicts the RIght of National Sovereignty.

Which is an actual right.

Well, in my mind, a natural right is more important than a legal right, and anything accruing from national sovereignty is a matter of legal rights rather than natural rights. Sovereignty is something that is recognized and mutually agreed upon by the parties involved, I suppose one could claim that a natural law, rather than a man made one, is what grants sovereignty to a given person or entity. That doesn't really seem applicable when it comes to nation states like the U.S. for there is nothing that naturally endowed Europeans, and thus us as their descendents, a natural right to the territory now called the U.S. The fact is that, while we will do nothing much to make amends for having done so, our forebears basically usurped/took the territory of North America from the people who were already in it for millennia before any European arrived.

Does your neighbor have the natural right to move into your basement?
Property rights are natural rights as well.

If the above is a no, then why do we, as a collective people, not have the right to determine who comes and goes in our house - the USA?

 

[320 Years of History]

Does your neighbor have the natural right to move into your basement? Property rights are natural rights as well.

If the above is a no, then why do we, as a collective people, not have the right to determine who comes and goes in our house - the USA?

No, neither my neighbors nor anyone else have the natural right to freely move into my basement, and the reason is that my basement my private property. Movement in and through the public domain is not at all the same thing.

 

[FA_Q2]

Does your neighbor have the natural right to move into your basement? Property rights are natural rights as well.

If the above is a no, then why do we, as a collective people, not have the right to determine who comes and goes in our house - the USA?

No, neither my neighbors nor anyone else have the natural right to freely move into my basement, and the reason is that my basement my private property. Movement in and through the public domain is not at all the same thing.

In a way it is. The 'public domain' is nothing more than land that we all own. I have a right to cross it under most circumstances as I am one of the 300 million owners. Random man in China however does not - they have no rights over that land and are not one of those owners. The same can be said in reciprocation.

 

[320 Years of History]

Does your neighbor have the natural right to move into your basement? Property rights are natural rights as well.

If the above is a no, then why do we, as a collective people, not have the right to determine who comes and goes in our house - the USA?

No, neither my neighbors nor anyone else have the natural right to freely move into my basement, and the reason is that my basement my private property. Movement in and through the public domain is not at all the same thing.

In a way it is. The 'public domain' is nothing more than land that we all own. I have a right to cross it under most circumstances as I am one of the 300 million owners. Random man in China however does not - they have no rights over that land and are not one of those owners. The same can be said in reciprocation.

Oh, come on. You know you are pushing the limits of what it means for lands to be part of the public domain, and I say that because you and I both know that the only thing making you and I "own" the U.S. public lands is a set of man made laws, not natural laws. I see your remarks above as academic, and for this discussion, they are surely intriguing for the sake of intellectual debate, but as a practical thing, which is what immigration amounts to, not so much.

 

[Correll]

Does your neighbor have the natural right to move into your basement? Property rights are natural rights as well.

If the above is a no, then why do we, as a collective people, not have the right to determine who comes and goes in our house - the USA?

No, neither my neighbors nor anyone else have the natural right to freely move into my basement, and the reason is that my basement my private property. Movement in and through the public domain is not at all the same thing.

In a way it is. The 'public domain' is nothing more than land that we all own. I have a right to cross it under most circumstances as I am one of the 300 million owners. Random man in China however does not - they have no rights over that land and are not one of those owners. The same can be said in reciprocation.

Oh, come on. You know you are pushing the limits of what it means for lands to be part of the public domain, and I say that because you and I both know that the only thing making you and I "own" the U.S. public lands is a set of man made laws, not natural laws. I see your remarks above as academic, and for this discussion, they are surely intriguing for the sake of intellectual debate, but as a practical thing, which is what immigration amounts to, not so much.

No, he is not. He is exactly on target.

The public in the term public domain is not the same in this country as it is in China.

As an American you have the right to move though the AMERICAN domain.

NOt China. Not Japan. Not France. Not Bermuda.

 

[JoeMoma]

Do non-U.S. citizens have a right to enter the U.S.?

I say no.

Trump says no.

What do you say?

I say that freedom of movement about the planet is an inalienable right that has nothing to do with political boundaries.

Beware of places like N. Korea. You become free to move about a 3x3 meter cell.