Dems Growing Convinced That GOP Will Try To Force Shutdown Over Health Care Funds

[M14 Shooter]

Too many people have suffered at the hands of some of these corrupt, greedy health insurance companies, whether it be by these companies refusing to pay for certain medical treatments and letting people die, jacking up their rates...blah blah blah

Your relationship with your health insurance company is voluntary.
Don't like them? Terminate the relationship. Pay for your health care yourself.

Someone else paying for your health care is not a right, and you are not entitled to it.

 

[Jarhead]

The fact that you are so adamant about something that you are so wrong about is concerning. When you do a little research about a topic you cliam to be so knowledgeable about, then we can debate the topic.

You are foolish to have such faith in people. People game the game all day long...and when it comes to insurance? They game it more than any other industry.

You are aware that union contracts say that as long as you have a note from a doctor saying you visited the office, you are enbtitled to take the day? You know, the unbion contracts that also offer benefitws with little or NO co pay?

Do some research then get back to me.

Really, you're going to complain about people going to the doctor and then taking the day off? First off, that is money the employer is out, not the insurance company. Second, what percentage of people are in unions? I live in NYC and no of NO ONE who is in a unionized company. Third, want to talk about games and abuses? Why don't you ask people whose lives have been devastated by insurance companies dropping them when they get sick, or dragging things out in court until the patient dies. You want to talk about dirty tricks? I'll bet I can find more at the corporate level than the policyholder level. What I can't get is why you trust a whole industry of dirty parasitic corporations... Maybe if YOU did a little research...

The fact that you are implying that unions do not have a major presence in NY gives me valid reason to believe that you live in a very sheltered world.

Manufacturers, warehouses, printing shops, publishers, zipper companies, real estate management firms, electirical, plumbing, steel workers, construction.....hundreds and hundreds of companies in NY are unionized....and every building in NY is manned by 32 b-j employees. That ius HUNDREDS of buildings

You know NONE. What does that say of how worldly YOU are?

And if you read into what I was saying, you would not see that I was criticizing someone who rightfully went to a doctor and then took the day off...I was criticizing those that went to the doctor TO get the day off.

You are too hell bent on "big bad business" to debate Mr. Peepers. You seem to want to couple all companies and businesses in the category of but a few

 

[saveliberty]

Are you aware of the abuses of the consumer NOW with insurance?

They go to the doctor for a headache if they have insurance with no deductable and little to no co-pay.

A headache can signal an anyeurism, meningitis or a brain tumor. I think if you did some research and figured out how many people would be interested, you could come up with a really affordable premium amount. Like I said, money would pore in every month from each member, whether they use insurance or not. I think it could work. If we wrote a smart, simple plan, worked with doctors closely on cost and kept a reasonable administrative pool, I think it could be a viable option.

Your describing an insurance system. We already have one of those. Your whole plan hinges on lower premiums in a rising market. Not going to happen until you control costs and you and/or Congress has not addressed that very well.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Your relationship with your health insurance company is voluntary.
Don't like them? Terminate the relationship. Pay for your health care yourself.

I, like most Americans can not even begin to afford health care without insurance. Insurance IS mandatory if you do not wish to be destroyed financially by a serious sickness or accident. The only insurance option I can afford (barely) is the only one offered by my company. And no, I don't like them, but I have no other options other than going without, which could be financial suicide.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You know NONE. What does that say of how worldly YOU are?

I work for a Japanese comany and no, no unionized people other than actors, do I remotely know. Unions are but a shadow of what they once were in this country. Only 11.9 (this figure is from last year) of American workers are members of a union and this number is dropping every year.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Your relationship with your health insurance company is voluntary.
Don't like them? Terminate the relationship. Pay for your health care yourself.

I, like most Americans can not even begin to afford health care without insurance.

Sure you can. It may not be convenient, and you may not get to go to the best doctor in town to take care of your hangnail, but you most certainly CAN pay for it yourself. Even if you have some catastophic issue, you can work out a reduction and a payment plan.

The driving force behind the rising costs of health care is thet fact that insurance insulates the consumer from the cost of the goods and services he receives. The closer you are to those costs, the more you pay attention to those costs, and the more likely you are to take steps to keep them down.

To drive down costs - eliminate insurance.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Your describing an insurance system. We already have one of those. Your whole plan hinges on lower premiums in a rising market. Not going to happen until you control costs and you and/or Congress has not addressed that very well.

Like a not for profit insurance system. Very, very different. All money goes to administrative costs and claims - that's it. No exhorbitant salaries, planes, million dollar CEO bonuses etc. That's a big difference than the current system. There would be no incentive to cut care for people as there would be no shareholders to be beholden to. It would be a necessary entity providing a necessary service which most people require. Don't you think the insurance companies have a hand in driving up cost? They do, and they collude to squeeze as much money out of you while providing the least service they can. How is that good for you or anyone?

 

[saveliberty]

Your describing an insurance system. We already have one of those. Your whole plan hinges on lower premiums in a rising market. Not going to happen until you control costs and you and/or Congress has not addressed that very well.

Like a not for profit insurance system. Very, very different. All money goes to administrative costs and claims - that's it. No exhorbitant salaries, planes, million dollar CEO bonuses etc. That's a big difference than the current system. There would be no incentive to cut care for people as there would be no shareholders to be beholden to. It would be a necessary entity providing a necessary service which most people require. Don't you think the insurance companies have a hand in driving up cost? They do, and they collude to squeeze as much money out of you while providing the least service they can. How is that good for you or anyone?

Oh, I get it, you THINK not for profit means cheaper delivery of quality services and goods.



A coop means EVERYONE is a shareholder. Government is actually the best at driving up costs and delivering the poorest service.

Blue Cross Blue Shield is not for profit dude. Sign up if you think that is the way to go.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Like a not for profit insurance system.

Why should companies that provide goods and services not make a profit from it?
And, how do you force insurance companies to not operate for profit?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Okay, say I get cancer... you're saying I can pay off a six or seven figure payment and it will be nothing but "inconvenient"? You are truly dilusional. You must work for one of those bloodsucker companies or something.

 

[saveliberty]

Like a not for profit insurance system.

Why should companies that provide goods and services not make a profit from it?
And, how do you force insurance companies to not operate for profit?

It starts with Obamacare and then throwing up your arms and saying this still isn't working let's nuke the insurance companies and have the government "help" us.

 

[Jarhead]

Your relationship with your health insurance company is voluntary.
Don't like them? Terminate the relationship. Pay for your health care yourself.

I, like most Americans can not even begin to afford health care without insurance. Insurance IS mandatory if you do not wish to be destroyed financially by a serious sickness or accident. The only insurance option I can afford (barely) is the only one offered by my company. And no, I don't like them, but I have no other options other than going without, which could be financial suicide.

I bleieve you once told me that you are single, live in Brooklyn and earn about 50K a year.

You can get your own coverage for about 3600....I know that as my son just did that.

It is a cadlillac? No. Does it have a high deductable? Yes. But for 3600 he is protected from being fianncially ruined in case of a catastrpophic meidcal scenario.

Sort of what INSURANCE is defined to be. A safety net.

To you, 3600...is too high? What is that...about 8% of your income...tax deductible....

Too high?

Really?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Oh, I get it, you THINK not for profit means cheaper delivery of quality services and goods.

Yes, I do.

Blue Cross Blue Shield is not for profit dude. Sign up if you think that is the way to go.

Nope, they are not - Not since 1995 when it changed its licensenses to be for-profit corporations. There are still a few non-profit plans at the state level and that's it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Okay, say I get cancer... you're saying I can pay off a six or seven figure payment and it will be nothing but "inconvenient"?

Well, if you can't pay at all, you likely won't run up that much of a bill.

You're also assuming current costs - if everyone pays for ther own treatment, then -no one- will have a 6/7-figure bill as providers will not be able to charge that much for their good/services.

You are truly dilusional.

Your use of a petulant ad hom only means you have no effective response.
:shrug:

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Why should companies that provide goods and services not make a profit from it?

Um, that's the whole premise of a non-profit organization. Are you that slow?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Like a not for profit insurance system.

Why should companies that provide goods and services not make a profit from it?
And, how do you force insurance companies to not operate for profit?

It starts with Obamacare and then throwing up your arms and saying this still isn't working let's nuke the insurance companies and have the government "help" us.

Yes... Certain supporters of Obamacare really arent worried about much other than the government gaining more power; the rest are "useful idiots".

 

[Rinata]

What a bunch of crazy talk!!!

 

[Mr. Peepers]

I bleieve you once told me that you are single, live in Brooklyn and earn about 50K a year.

A little less than that. So I see, I should pay a giant chunk of my salary (after taxes, mind you) to have shitty insurance? That's almost $300 a month!!!! Are you crazy? That is 1/4 of my take home pay. I would have nothing left over after rent, utilities and food. Man alive... you people are nuts.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Yes... Certain supporters of Obamacare really arent worried about much other than the government gaining more power; the rest are "useful idiots".

We aren't talking about government anything. Pay attention.

 

[Jarhead]

I bleieve you once told me that you are single, live in Brooklyn and earn about 50K a year.

A little less than that. So I see, I should pay a giant chunk of my salary (after taxes, mind you) to have shitty insurance? That's almost $550 a month. Are you crazy? That is 1/4 of my take home pay. I would have nothing left over after rent, utilities and food. Man alive... you people are nuts.

It is tax deductible...

And 3600 comes to 550 a month?

Maybe you should first concentrate on your basic math skills.

It is 300 a month TAX DEDUCTIBLE to ensure you dont lose 100's of thousands if you become very sick.

Many pay that in liability insurance for their automobiles. Likely never used....but a safety net.

Thus the word "insurance"