Dems Growing Convinced That GOP Will Try To Force Shutdown Over Health Care Funds

[Mr. Peepers]

There are not 200 million Americans working or in a position to pay.

I think even people on unemployment would gladly pay $50 a month. That is not a lot of money to come up with.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

There are not 200 million Americans working or in a position to pay.
Government audits nonprofits, so there goes your no involvement.
Just wait until the CEO from your not for profit collects their $3,000,000 annual salary.
Who do you appeal to if the not for profit denies your care request? Remember, no government.

A co-op is different. All members have a say in policy, such as salary and the such. Co-op means collectively operated. There need not even be a CEO.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Corn subsidies?



Look, you go ahead and demonize the insurance industry while rooting for your collectivist model, I'll work toward sane market based reforms.

You do that. Do you deny that it has an affect on health care costs? And none of the market-based reforms will benefit anyone but the health insurance industry. Even you have to admit that. Besides, if 200 million of us want to collectivize and buy group insurance we can afford, that is a "wrong" to you? Shouldn't be allowed, but we should be forced to buy into an industry that is a scam whether we want to or not? How is that competition? So much for freedom.

And freedom is having the Internal Revenue Service monitoring who has "proper" health insurance?

Look, co-ops, whatever, if it can be done, and it doesn't involve having a bunch of DC nitwits having their fingers all in it, and it works, FINE. I want Obamacare repealed. PERIOD.

 

[saveliberty]

There are not 200 million Americans working or in a position to pay.
Government audits nonprofits, so there goes your no involvement.
Just wait until the CEO from your not for profit collects their $3,000,000 annual salary.
Who do you appeal to if the not for profit denies your care request? Remember, no government.

A co-op is different. All members have a say in policy, such as salary and the such. Co-op means collectively operated. There need not even be a CEO.

Great, now I have to have 199,999,999 people okay my surgery? You obviously haven't done the math on healthcare costs versus your $50/ person premium. Coops have CEOs too.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Patently false! Nursing home insurance is expressly for preserving your personal assets.

Nursing home insurance is expensive. She couldn't afford it. This woman was living on $680 a month! She was on medicare at the end.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

And freedom is having the Internal Revenue Service monitoring who has "proper" health insurance?

Wait, you act like I said I was for the mandate. I'm not! I told you, I believe that is the work of the insurance industry.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You still haven't explained your position as to why others are obligated to foot her bills.

No one footed her bills. She paid into SS and Medicaid. But you're right, we should have just dumped her in the woods because she didn't earn enough to pay for ALS treatment on her own, right? I truly hope that none of you ever get the kind of country you are blindly reaching for...

So tell me, genius, what should have happened to her?

Did I say that? God man, calm the fuck down. You're complaining that she had to spend her money on her treatments.. who else's money should she have spent?

Sorry, we're not buying into your "everybody's dying in the streets" storyline either.

 

[saveliberty]

Patently false! Nursing home insurance is expressly for preserving your personal assets.

Nursing home insurance is expensive. She couldn't afford it. This woman was living on $680 a month! She was on medicare at the end.

No she made financial decisions her whole life that left her penniless at the end. Now I'm suppose to take money from my savings and bail these folks out.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Great, now I have to have 199,999,999 people okay my surgery? You obviously haven't done the math on healthcare costs versus your $50/ person premium.

Good god, NO!!! They put forth a plan. You look to see if you like what it covers, just like regular insurance. If you do, you opt in, if you don't you look elsewhere. If you want more coverage, you can buy more from a private insurer. Sheesh!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And freedom is having the Internal Revenue Service monitoring who has "proper" health insurance?

Wait, you act like I said I was for the mandate. I'm not! I told you, I believe that is the work of the insurance industry.

Of good grief.

 

[Jarhead]

50 bucks....for what....annual premium?

50 bucks a month, which would make an annual premium of 600 for each of the people in the collective. Say you get the 200,000,000 signed up that I'm talking about, that's a good chunk of change to take care of your basic health care. And if you want to (and can) buy a supplimental insurance policy that covers more treatment options, you can.

Send the idea to washington.
But without the mandate...and without pre-existing condition clauses....you will have people STILL gaming the game and not buying insurance until they need it.

And I think that would bankrupt the system.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

You're complaining that she had to spend her money on her treatments.. who else's money should she have spent?

Sorry, we're not buying into your "everybody's dying in the streets" storyline either.

When did I complain about that? Oh yeah, I didn't - I was explaining why she did not die a millionaire. You're not? OK, so what would have happened to her if there were no SS or medicare? That is what started this whole thread. My point is, many would not survive without it.

 

[saveliberty]

Where are your 200,000,000 paying customers?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

No she made financial decisions her whole life that left her penniless at the end. Now I'm suppose to take money from my savings and bail these folks out.

She made the very best financial decisions she could, and never asked for help from anyone, She worked hard and contributed to her community. No, she was not rich. She grew up in Appalachia during the depression. She did pretty damn site better than most, especially without a husband. But you're right, she was a worthless loser who deserved no care. You are not even worth debating with.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Where are your 200,000,000 paying customers?

I was using that as a random number. I wonder how many people would really sign up for something like this...

 

[Jarhead]

No she made financial decisions her whole life that left her penniless at the end. Now I'm suppose to take money from my savings and bail these folks out.

She made the very best financial decisions she could, and never asked for help from anyone, She worked hard and contributed to her community. No, she was not rich. She grew up in Appalachia during the depression. She did pretty damn site better than most, especially without a husband. But you're right, she was a worthless loser who deserved no care. You are not even worth debating with.

I think the point being made is

'what will be the incentive for a person to make wise fianncial decisions if there are no consequences to making foolish ones?'

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Send the idea to washington.
But without the mandate...and without pre-existing condition clauses....you will have people STILL gaming the game and not buying insurance until they need it.

And I think that would bankrupt the system.

The co-op wouldn't need a pre-existing condition based clause... that is to preserve profit. I also believe that if you can stay on top of a disease like diabetes, it keeps down costs of much more catastrophic related illness later... You'd get whatever care you need when you need it. I think it would also take a load off of the government, where they would have to subsidize no one but the truly indigent. Problem is, you never know when you're going to get sick, so I would say, as soon as you register and pay, you're covered.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

'what will be the incentive for a person to make wise fianncial decisions if there are no consequences to making foolish ones?'

She never made one foolish financial decision. Not one.

 

[saveliberty]

Where are your 200,000,000 paying customers?

I was using that as a random number. I wonder how many people would really sign up for something like this...

There's you...

I'm sorry Mr. Peepers. Grandma is not unlike most of us. Yet, just because we fail to plan and really save, it is not up to others to HAVE to help us. When I hear people who already have entitlements ask for BETTER and MORE entitlements I get angry.

One trip to the Emergency room will cost at least $600. Your just not grasping the size and scope of the problem. Further, a Coop with no leadership is foolish. Who hires? How do you appeal a decision if there is no boss? How do you fire employees?

 

[Jarhead]

'what will be the incentive for a person to make wise fianncial decisions if there are no consequences to making foolish ones?'

She never made one foolish financial decision. Not one.

IM sorry...I should have elaborated on my question...

Some are like she was.....but I am referring to the many others that make poor financial decisions to meet their immeidate WANTS...

For example...I know a guy who is unemployed....(he worked for Lehman)...and I see him all the time at our local 7-11 playing lotto.

I know another guy....down the block...well educated and emplyed when he took an ARM with a fixed teaser rate. Bragged about the cash out and bought a boat with it. Now, his company went out of business, his rate jumpred up and his house is up for short sale AT BEST if not foreclosure.

What about those people? And they are many.