Democrats: the more people know about government run healthcare, the less they like

[Harry Dresden]

In contrast to private insurers Medicare doesn’t have to spend millions on marketing, advertising, and Washington lobbyists. On top of that, private insurers must generate profits for their shareholders. In 2003, the HMO industry as a whole reported total earnings of $5.5 billion—up 83 percent from $3 million in 2002 , according to Weiss Ratings, a firm that assesses the financial strength of banks and insurance companies.

Private/For Profit is worse than Medicare!!!

But it’s not just the cost of marketing, advertising, lobbying and providing profits for investors that makes a private insurer’s overhead so much higher. Insurers also have higher administrative costs because they are constantly enrolling and disenrolling customers as people change plans. (The average turnover in an employer-sponsored insurance plan is 20% to 25% a year. By contrast, Medicare patients stay put. Even if they could switch, most prefer Medicare’s coverage to the coverage they had under a private insurer.)


What’s interesting is that, in the course of interviewing doctors for Money-Driven Medicine, I found that the majority preferred Medicare—even when it paid less—because it was so much less hassle. As The New York Times recently pointed out, private insurers make a game out of delaying reimbursement, and designing the forms so that the doctor leaves out one detail, he or she won’t be paid.


Do I really need to continue? You're wrong.

The Health Care Blog: POLICY: Why Medicare is More Efficient Than Private Insurers By Maggie Mahar

thats funny Bobo....i hurt my knee on the job.....i went to see MY doc. not theirs....his office as i found out along with many others will not treat any on the job injuries were they have to deal with the govt....ITS A MONSTER HASSELL with them im told.... if i was to use my private Ins., i was told no prob....mmmm?

 

[Navy1960]

Despite a weakening economy, Massachusetts continued to measure gains in the share of residents who reported having a steady source of health care in 2008, its second year of near-universal coverage, a new study has found.

But the annual survey, taken each fall since 2006, also raised red flags regarding the ability of residents to actually use that care, with growing numbers saying they could not afford needed treatments and many reporting shortages of primary care physicians.

The study’s authors wrote that there were lessons for Washington, where Congressional committees are incorporating much of the Massachusetts model into federal health care legislation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/28/health/policy/28massachusetts.html

"Nothing is more fatal to health than an over care of it."

Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Back in the 1960s, Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec — then the largest and most affluent in the country — adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies.

The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: "the father of Quebec medicare." Even this title seems modest; Castonguay's work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.

Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in "crisis."

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice."
IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits

THIS NEXT ONE IS AN EXAMPLE OF A U.S. Govt. RUN HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.
Fayetteville, NC: When William complained about stomach pains Alice B. took her husband to the VA hospital on several occasions, but he was sent home with heartburn medicine. Finally she took him to a civilian hospital: the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer and the diagnosis for the VA hospital was Veteran Medical Malpractice: the cancer clinic said it was too late for treatment.
Veteran Medical Malpractice Misdiagnosed Cancer VA hospital heartburn medicine needle biopsy |LawyersandSettlements.com

As you can easily see that while it is noble to wish that your fellow citizen not suffer and have access to medical care, perhaps the way to reform it is to motivate those who represent you to provide a marketplace more friendly to competetion. I have made many suggestions here that are well within the scope of the Govts. constitutional powers. As many on both sides have pointed out no one can be turned away from an Emergency room for care in this nation by law. It does cause the costs of care to rise , however costs are a part of commerce and commerce is something that is well within the powers of the Govt. to regulate. Now while it may sound cruel , this nation was not founded on the principles of providing every citizen all their needs. It was founded on providing a free framework for allowing any citizen who wishes to work hard enough and is self reliant to go provide for themselves and their family. It is not the healthcare system I suggest is broken but it is the free framework that needs to be adjusted to meet the demands of its citizens.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If I can get rid of my $1200 a month healthcare costs and my taxes go up $300, sure, go for it!!!! And they won't deny me healthcare?

We'll save money.

Bobo according to some on the other thread about NAT.HEALTH CARE....and these people are very much for it,it seems anyway,....they claim that they CAN and VERY LIKELY WILL deny health care for certain diseases....the disease apparently has to be an "AFFORDABLE DISEASE".....so for these poor folkes....nothing will change.....what say you?

I'd say they are wrong and that's a lie. According to who? some on the other thread??? Oh, then it must be true.

They are liars or swallowing lies.

Show me what diseases my grandmother might come down with that medicare will deny her coverage for.

Let me settle this for you Harry. FOR PROFIT healthcare is bad. Do you have a solution better than single payer, or do you want the status quo?

You think/fear that single payer will suck, but thats because the FOR PROFITS who actually do suck are telling you lies. It can't be worse than what we have now.

i have NO problems with my Ins.Co. Bobo....my wife has to see 2-3 specialist and has to periodically go through what i would think is fairly expensive tests,she is an epileptic that they have never been able to fully control her seizures the way they should,she falls into a 10% of all epileptic group, since she developed this 30 years ago.....Kaiser was absolutely horrible with their coverage....Blue Shield....fantastic,never bats an eye....

 

[sealybobo]

As a matter of fact the whole total government is broke so how you can hitch your health care wagon to that star is just downright bumfuzzling!

This was the GOP's mission. They bankrupted us so they could do away with social programs like social security!!!

get over it pigface.. Lyndon B. Johnson was the democwat who started pilfiering our money from socialble security..

Got a link to back that up? Didn't think so. NEXT!

 

[Harry Dresden]

Medicare isn't going broke because it isn't administered well (nor is Social Security). It's going broke because too many people are living longer and getting added to the system. Fraud does exist, as it will with any giant operation where money changes hands, but there is now in place a sub-agency specifically assigned to ferret out and prosecute Medicare and Medicaid fraud around the country (Health Care Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Action Team).

What I'm totally missing out on is either your unwillingness to see or hear,, about how well this dosen't go in the countries who have done it??? and we are talking relatively small countries in comparison to the numbers of people you want this to work out on in your fantasy world.. what you get for medical care in exchange for your 70% tax rate is the opportunity to get in line and wait for care. that's all you get.. some die waiting.. and yes those countries have a shortage of doctors and beds why do you think Canadians bolt across the border and come here for care??? Why don't they go to the mythical land of Cuba for the best care in the world?? doyathink??

And of course, you've only looked at the "right" side (in this case the "wrong" side) of the issue. There's more than enough evidence that the people living in countries who have universal care WOULD NOT TRADE IT for a return to privately run health care. But there's nothing more to say when trying to debate a brick wall.

but you did not answer her question Maggie about the amount of people to cover...20-50 mill.compared to 300 mill.....and the size of the countries....how good is China's ,Russia's Brazil,India and any other 100 million plus countries health care?

 

[sealybobo]

Bobo according to some on the other thread about NAT.HEALTH CARE....and these people are very much for it,it seems anyway,....they claim that they CAN and VERY LIKELY WILL deny health care for certain diseases....the disease apparently has to be an "AFFORDABLE DISEASE".....so for these poor folkes....nothing will change.....what say you?

I'd say they are wrong and that's a lie. According to who? some on the other thread??? Oh, then it must be true.

They are liars or swallowing lies.

Show me what diseases my grandmother might come down with that medicare will deny her coverage for.

Let me settle this for you Harry. FOR PROFIT healthcare is bad. Do you have a solution better than single payer, or do you want the status quo?

You think/fear that single payer will suck, but thats because the FOR PROFITS who actually do suck are telling you lies. It can't be worse than what we have now.

i have NO problems with my Ins.Co. Bobo....my wife has to see 2-3 specialist and has to periodically go through what i would think is fairly expensive tests,she is an epileptic that they have never been able to fully control her seizures the way they should,she falls into a 10% of all epileptic group, since she developed this 30 years ago.....Kaiser was absolutely horrible with their coverage....Blue Shield....fantastic,never bats an eye....

Who's paying? How much does it cost? Perhaps you haven't come down with something yet that they will deny coverage for?

Also, you corporate defenders can't seem to understand that our corporations can't compete with other countries because they are forced to pay for healthcare.

You should be outraged that corps are forced to pay for healthcare! That's not free market capitalism!!

 

[WillowTree]

This was the GOP's mission. They bankrupted us so they could do away with social programs like social security!!!

get over it pigface.. Lyndon B. Johnson was the democwat who started pilfiering our money from socialble security..

Got a link to back that up? Didn't think so. NEXT!

you don't think period,, you just drink the kool aid.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Medicare isn't going broke because it isn't administered well (nor is Social Security). It's going broke because too many people are living longer and getting added to the system. Fraud does exist, as it will with any giant operation where money changes hands, but there is now in place a sub-agency specifically assigned to ferret out and prosecute Medicare and Medicaid fraud around the country (Health Care Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Action Team).

What I'm totally missing out on is either your unwillingness to see or hear,, about how well this dosen't go in the countries who have done it??? and we are talking relatively small countries in comparison to the numbers of people you want this to work out on in your fantasy world.. what you get for medical care in exchange for your 70% tax rate is the opportunity to get in line and wait for care. that's all you get.. some die waiting.. and yes those countries have a shortage of doctors and beds why do you think Canadians bolt across the border and come here for care??? Why don't they go to the mythical land of Cuba for the best care in the world?? doyathink??

Canadians come here? Where do we go when we are denied coverage?

Actually, you guys are exaggerating the problems in other countries. I heard a guy from Canada talk about it. And we have the same shit happening here, and it happens just about as often.

if it happens just as often as it does here,in a country with 30 mill people as compared to one with 300 mill.....then Canada's system is not as good as you seem to think it is....

 

[sealybobo]

get over it pigface.. Lyndon B. Johnson was the democwat who started pilfiering our money from socialble security..

Got a link to back that up? Didn't think so. NEXT!

you don't think period,, you just drink the kool aid.

Didn't think you'd have/find anything to back up your drivel.

 

[sealybobo]

What I'm totally missing out on is either your unwillingness to see or hear,, about how well this dosen't go in the countries who have done it??? and we are talking relatively small countries in comparison to the numbers of people you want this to work out on in your fantasy world.. what you get for medical care in exchange for your 70% tax rate is the opportunity to get in line and wait for care. that's all you get.. some die waiting.. and yes those countries have a shortage of doctors and beds why do you think Canadians bolt across the border and come here for care??? Why don't they go to the mythical land of Cuba for the best care in the world?? doyathink??

Canadians come here? Where do we go when we are denied coverage?

Actually, you guys are exaggerating the problems in other countries. I heard a guy from Canada talk about it. And we have the same shit happening here, and it happens just about as often.

if it happens just as often as it does here,in a country with 30 mill people as compared to one with 300 mill.....then Canada's system is not as good as you seem to think it is....

Whatever you say Harry.

 

[WillowTree]

What I'm totally missing out on is either your unwillingness to see or hear,, about how well this dosen't go in the countries who have done it??? and we are talking relatively small countries in comparison to the numbers of people you want this to work out on in your fantasy world.. what you get for medical care in exchange for your 70% tax rate is the opportunity to get in line and wait for care. that's all you get.. some die waiting.. and yes those countries have a shortage of doctors and beds why do you think Canadians bolt across the border and come here for care??? Why don't they go to the mythical land of Cuba for the best care in the world?? doyathink??

Canadians come here? Where do we go when we are denied coverage?

Actually, you guys are exaggerating the problems in other countries. I heard a guy from Canada talk about it. And we have the same shit happening here, and it happens just about as often.

if it happens just as often as it does here,in a country with 30 mill people as compared to one with 300 mill.....then Canada's system is not as good as you seem to think it is....

Fucking bullseye!

 

[sealybobo]

Canadians come here? Where do we go when we are denied coverage?

Actually, you guys are exaggerating the problems in other countries. I heard a guy from Canada talk about it. And we have the same shit happening here, and it happens just about as often.

if it happens just as often as it does here,in a country with 30 mill people as compared to one with 300 mill.....then Canada's system is not as good as you seem to think it is....

Fucking bullseye!

What color panties are you wearing?

 

[WillowTree]

Got a link to back that up? Didn't think so. NEXT!

you don't think period,, you just drink the kool aid.

Didn't think you'd have/find anything to back up your drivel.

oh I can back it up,, trouble is can you string two consecutive thoughts together,, that's real hard on pigs ya know..


http://www.uurestoration.us/sermons/On_Social_Security.pdf


http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/5135131/


http://www.shadowstats.com/article/federal_deficit_reality



no surprise that you cannot be bothered to find out information on your own though.. no surpise

 

[Meister]

Britain has only one-fourth as many CT scanners per capita as the U.S., and one-third as many MRI scanners. The rate at which the British provide coronary-bypass surgery or angioplasty to heart patients is only one-fourth the U.S. rate, and hip replacements are only two-thirds the U.S. rate. The rate for treating kidney failure (dialysis or transplant) is five times higher in the U.S. for patients between the ages of 45 and 84, and nine times higher for patients 85 years or older.

Overall, nearly 1.8 million Britons are waiting for hospital or outpatient treatments at any given time. In 2002-2004, dialysis patients waited an average of 16 days for permanent blood-vessel access in the U.S., 20 days in Europe, and 62 days in Canada. In 2000, Norwegian patients waited an average of 133 days for hip replacement, 63 days for cataract surgery, 160 days for a knee replacement, and 46 days for bypass surgery after being approved for treatment. Short waits for cataract surgery produce better outcomes, prompt coronary-artery bypass reduces mortality, and rapid hip replacement reduces disability and death. Studies show that only 5 percent of Americans wait more than four months for surgery, compared with 23 percent of Australians, 26 percent of New Zealanders, 27 percent of Canadians, and 36 percent of Britons.
Do the Uninsured in the U.S. Lack Access to Health Care?

Of the 46 million nominally uninsured, about 12 million are eligible for such public programs as Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP). They can usually enroll even at the time of treatment, arguably making them de facto insured. About 17 million of the uninsured are living in households with annual incomes of at least $50,000. More than half of those earn more than $75,000, suggesting that they are uninsured by choice.
Socialized failure: dissecting health-care data from Britain, Canada, and elsewhere. - Free Online Library

Bobo really won't want to look at this part of socialized healthcare vs. private sector healthcare. We are the best in the world, and I mean best in the world. The second site gives you links to worldwide socialized healthcare information.
The Problems with Socialized Health Care

 

[HUGGY]

the government can't do anything less expensively than the private sector why would health care be any different?

Medicare...administrative cost..3%

You are a neo con tool.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Also, you corporate defenders can't seem to understand that our corporations can't compete with other countries because they are forced to pay for healthcare.

before all this shit started Bobo they were doing just fine competing,as a matter of fact MANY foreign corps. could not compete against these guys.....and they were paying for health care,i never heard anyone crying back then......so what caused the change?

 

[sealybobo]

you don't think period,, you just drink the kool aid.

Didn't think you'd have/find anything to back up your drivel.

oh I can back it up,, trouble is can you string two consecutive thoughts together,, that's real hard on pigs ya know..


http://www.uurestoration.us/sermons/On_Social_Security.pdf


HOW SOCIAL SECURITY WAS CREATED AND STOLEN :: WRAL.com



no surprise that you cannot be bothered to find out information on your own though.. no surpise

What the fuck is that you twit?

Lyndon B. Johnson was the democwat who started pilfiering our money from socialble security is what you said, you goofy dingbat.

What the fuck is that blather you linked?

http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/redneck4-300.jpg


Here is you stupid.

 

[sealybobo]

Also, you corporate defenders can't seem to understand that our corporations can't compete with other countries because they are forced to pay for healthcare.

before all this shit started Bobo they were doing just fine competing,as a matter of fact MANY foreign corps. could not compete against these guys.....and they were paying for health care,i never heard anyone crying back then......so what caused the change?

Ha! I say the same thing when you guys cry about unions. The Big 3 were profitable in 1999.

What changed? Healthcare costs skyrocketted, no one is buying anything and your party makes our American companies compete against 3rd world slave labor.

Why in 2005 were corporate profits up but wages went down?

 

[WillowTree]

Didn't think you'd have/find anything to back up your drivel.

oh I can back it up,, trouble is can you string two consecutive thoughts together,, that's real hard on pigs ya know..


http://www.uurestoration.us/sermons/On_Social_Security.pdf


HOW SOCIAL SECURITY WAS CREATED AND STOLEN :: WRAL.com



no surprise that you cannot be bothered to find out information on your own though.. no surpise

What the fuck is that you twit?

Lyndon B. Johnson was the democwat who started pilfiering our money from socialble security is what you said, you goofy dingbat.

What the fuck is that blather you linked?

http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/redneck4-300.jpg


Here is you stupid.

didn't figure you could put it together libtard.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Canadians come here? Where do we go when we are denied coverage?

Actually, you guys are exaggerating the problems in other countries. I heard a guy from Canada talk about it. And we have the same shit happening here, and it happens just about as often.

if it happens just as often as it does here,in a country with 30 mill people as compared to one with 300 mill.....then Canada's system is not as good as you seem to think it is....

Whatever you say Harry.

so i get the last word?.....Bobo let me put it to you like this.....i would love to see a great best on the planet health care system here.....But you and others who are all for this...NO MATTER WHAT....are not doing a good job of convincing me....the reason?....no matter what you put up here,i find just as many things countering your claims....and like i said in the other post on this, i know 4 from Canada,ones a nurse....she said there are way two many negatives about it,for it to be a model....so your not convincing me what you want will be better than what i got...