Democrats: the more people know about government run healthcare, the less they like

[WillowTree]

Willow, he didn't promise tax cuts for 95% of Americans, he said they intended to raise taxes on people who make over $250,000 a year.

Not certain where you get 30 or 40 million illegals going on Medicare...

what do you call free medical care for illegals?? I'm going to search for obamalma telling us 95 % would get tax cuts..

Do you work?

No

 

[Sarah G]

what do you call free medical care for illegals?? I'm going to search for obamalma telling us 95 % would get tax cuts..

Do you work?

No

Ok, there was a tax cut in the stimulus where working Americans are getting about $13 a week extra in their paycheck.

It was a concession to the three R senators who were planning to vote for the stimulus.

Not sure if that's what he is talking about. I can't view the YouTube vid, I'm on my work laptop.

As for the illegals, we have around 11 million who actually live here. I don't know if they can or will get medicare. If they are paying in, adding to tax revenue, which some do actually, they can get it.

The IRS will take their money with a tax id number and they don't know or want to know whether anyone is an illegal. The reason an illegal would pay into it voluntarily is because they understand that amnesty in inevitable and they may have to pay a certain amount anyway when that happens.

Best I can do in answering your questions right now. I have to go.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Ameritocracy | Barack Obama said: "I will cut taxes - cut taxes - for 95% of all working families. Becaus...

"I will cut taxes - cut taxes - for 95% of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class."

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Ok, there was a tax cut in the stimulus where working Americans are getting about $13 a week extra in their paycheck.

No, he was flapping his lips about tax cuts for 95% of Americans since the campaign.

 

[WillowTree]

Do you work?

No

Ok, there was a tax cut in the stimulus where working Americans are getting about $13 a week extra in their paycheck.

It was a concession to the three R senators who were planning to vote for the stimulus.

Not sure if that's what he is talking about. I can't view the YouTube vid, I'm on my work laptop.

As for the illegals, we have around 11 million who actually live here. I don't know if they can or will get medicare. If they are paying in, adding to tax revenue, which some do actually, they can get it.

The IRS will take their money with a tax id number and they don't know or want to know whether anyone is an illegal. The reason an illegal would pay into it voluntarily is because they understand that amnesty in inevitable and they may have to pay a certain amount anyway when that happens.

Best I can do in answering your questions right now. I have to go.

basically what the you tube says is,, that 95% everyone thought they heard,, amounts to about 81% of us getting tax breaks.. so I still question our ability to pay for this.. no one is sure how many illegals are here,, I've heard anywhere from 10 million to thirty,, and more keep coming,, so I take the high estimate,, if they have work visa and tax ID they are legal aren't they? It's the one's who come and steal ID or work with no ID that concern me.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ok, there was a tax cut in the stimulus where working Americans are getting about $13 a week extra in their paycheck.

YES!!....i got my 13 bucks.....but i had to give it to the State of California....plus some....so.....BIG FUCKING DEAL.....oh im sorry....am i supposed to be excited?

 

[Skull Pilot]

the government can't do anything less expensively than the private sector why would health care be any different?

You have tunnel vision. Even major health care providers are on board with the health care INSURANCE program (which is the only one on the table).

US Health Care Bleeds $1T, But Can Be Saved - Science & Health News Briefs | Newser

What the hell is Newser?

And the government will NOT be able to improve and expand care.

We might not be getting what we're paying for, according to Newser, but government involvement will make certain we will be getting even less than what we pay for.

 

[Skull Pilot]

He reiterated his support for allowing people to keep the plans they get through their jobs if they want, but also to offer the new public health insurance plan to compete against private insurers. "This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest," Obama wrote.

Obama urges Kennedy, Baucus to press ahead on healthcare - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him Tuesday.

The Associated Press: Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

So let me see if I can understand this correctly, we have a record deficit, a massive debt, growing unemployment, large compaines going backrupt, and along with the so called stimulus package that has created to my knowlegde at least a few jobs for the mice that are being studied in California. We are now proposing healthcare for all and not only that we will pay for it by taxing everyone? and forcing them to have healthcare if they want it or not? Further, what private enterprise wants to compete with the very entity that regulates it? Eventually the only game in town will be the Federal Govt. as private insurers will not wish to compete with Fed. The fact is that the Federal Govt. has a dismal record on healthcare and the VA should be a good indication of that. While it's a noble thing to want the Govt. to provide healthcare for all, there are simply people out there that do not want healthcare coverage. Here is a novel idea, how about paying down the debt and putting the economy back on it's feet and letting Americans make their own healthcare choices there's a novel idea. If the Govt. really wanted to be in the business of helping the American public with reforming an industry, they would regulate as they are entitlied to do under the commerce clause and perhaps more companies would want to get into the healthcare insurance business. There are many solutions other than a draconian edict from on high that demands everyone has healthcare.

hey the government now owns auto companies that will compete with private businesses, why not just let the government open an insurance company as well.

before you know it, we'll have government owned retail stores

 

[KittenKoder]

He reiterated his support for allowing people to keep the plans they get through their jobs if they want, but also to offer the new public health insurance plan to compete against private insurers. "This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest," Obama wrote.

Obama urges Kennedy, Baucus to press ahead on healthcare - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him Tuesday.

The Associated Press: Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

So let me see if I can understand this correctly, we have a record deficit, a massive debt, growing unemployment, large compaines going backrupt, and along with the so called stimulus package that has created to my knowlegde at least a few jobs for the mice that are being studied in California. We are now proposing healthcare for all and not only that we will pay for it by taxing everyone? and forcing them to have healthcare if they want it or not? Further, what private enterprise wants to compete with the very entity that regulates it? Eventually the only game in town will be the Federal Govt. as private insurers will not wish to compete with Fed. The fact is that the Federal Govt. has a dismal record on healthcare and the VA should be a good indication of that. While it's a noble thing to want the Govt. to provide healthcare for all, there are simply people out there that do not want healthcare coverage. Here is a novel idea, how about paying down the debt and putting the economy back on it's feet and letting Americans make their own healthcare choices there's a novel idea. If the Govt. really wanted to be in the business of helping the American public with reforming an industry, they would regulate as they are entitlied to do under the commerce clause and perhaps more companies would want to get into the healthcare insurance business. There are many solutions other than a draconian edict from on high that demands everyone has healthcare.

hey the government now owns auto companies that will compete with private businesses, why not just let the government open an insurance company as well.

before you know it, we'll have government owned retail stores

Which will destroy the auto industry, since the government makes the regulations they can regulate all the competition out of business then set the price to anything they want. Oh well, I hear the Japanese and Germans have some awesome automobile choices.

 

[editec]

the government can't do anything less expensively than the private sector why would health care be any different?

No?

You sure about that, are you?

Perhaps you should compare the admin costs of Medicare v the admin costs of private insurers.

They're in exactly the same business, but the Medicare, you will discover if you bother to look it up, is about 500% more efficient than the private companies.

That is about the most compelling argument that the single payer folks have for implementing that system, actually.

Junk stat, even if 500% is accurate.

It is acuate..Medicade Amin costs are about 5%..private companies the costs are about 25%.

Which I doubt.

But won't look up, just in case I'm right.

Medicare administers only one benefit, and shifts costs to private insurance. So private insurance picks up the "administrative" cost of the same services.

Poppycock. You don't know the fuck you are talking about.

The single payer will be the government.

Yes, if that system was put into place.

The more people understand government will make their health care decisions, the less they want this.

Possibly. I have no evidence to support that theory, and neither do you, but you might be right.

 

[editec]

the government can't do anything less expensively than the private sector why would health care be any different?

No?

You sure about that, are you?

Perhaps you should compare the admin costs of Medicare v the admin costs of private insurers.

They're in exactly the same business, but the Medicare, you will discover if you bother to look it up, is about 500% more efficient than the private companies.

That is about the most compelling argument that the single payer folks have for implementing that system, actually.

and is medicare not going bust?? or isn't that what they are telling us???

It could be if it isn't funded, that's for damned sure.

 

[WillowTree]

He reiterated his support for allowing people to keep the plans they get through their jobs if they want, but also to offer the new public health insurance plan to compete against private insurers. "This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest," Obama wrote.

Obama urges Kennedy, Baucus to press ahead on healthcare - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him Tuesday.

The Associated Press: Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

So let me see if I can understand this correctly, we have a record deficit, a massive debt, growing unemployment, large compaines going backrupt, and along with the so called stimulus package that has created to my knowlegde at least a few jobs for the mice that are being studied in California. We are now proposing healthcare for all and not only that we will pay for it by taxing everyone? and forcing them to have healthcare if they want it or not? Further, what private enterprise wants to compete with the very entity that regulates it? Eventually the only game in town will be the Federal Govt. as private insurers will not wish to compete with Fed. The fact is that the Federal Govt. has a dismal record on healthcare and the VA should be a good indication of that. While it's a noble thing to want the Govt. to provide healthcare for all, there are simply people out there that do not want healthcare coverage. Here is a novel idea, how about paying down the debt and putting the economy back on it's feet and letting Americans make their own healthcare choices there's a novel idea. If the Govt. really wanted to be in the business of helping the American public with reforming an industry, they would regulate as they are entitlied to do under the commerce clause and perhaps more companies would want to get into the healthcare insurance business. There are many solutions other than a draconian edict from on high that demands everyone has healthcare.

hey the government now owns auto companies that will compete with private businesses, why not just let the government open an insurance company as well.

before you know it, we'll have government owned retail stores

Listen I watched the Senate hearings last night with the ceo of GM and Chrysler..we are into GM for 50 Billion bucks,, thousands of people will be without jobs at GM and then thousands of dealerships will be closed.. oh a couple dealer guys there too,, stand to lose millions,, they have a deadline in which to sell the cars or then they cannot legally sell them.. now GM and Chrysler say they will take the inventory back, as well as parts and special tools but the dealers say they have not been advised of such,, so as one Senator put it,, now all this wheeling and dealing went down without benefit of oversight or a vote from the legislatiure,, the WH did it. Now what have the democwats been bitching about for 8 years????? Ya hear anything from them now? anywho,, the losers in this game are the taxpayers,, (cause we ante up the stimulus money but get nothing) the bondholder,,(they get pennies on the dollar) the dealerships (they pretty much get zero their words) and anybody who had stocks in either company get almost zero,, the winner (I"m hoping for a very short time) are the unions.. I would'nt buy a car from these goddamn theives if my life depended on it. Oh and after they have closed these dealerships (who cost them no money) they are gonna turn around and open their own somewhere else.. so ya know what.. I don't want the goddamn government touching health care either.. This is the biggest CF I have ever seen.. oh and to add, the only benefit I see to the Nationalized Health care would be to benefit GE and another union Seic.. and ACORN,, so no,, it's just another buttF.

 

[MaggieMae]

He reiterated his support for allowing people to keep the plans they get through their jobs if they want, but also to offer the new public health insurance plan to compete against private insurers. "This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest," Obama wrote.

Obama urges Kennedy, Baucus to press ahead on healthcare - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him Tuesday.

The Associated Press: Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

So let me see if I can understand this correctly, we have a record deficit, a massive debt, growing unemployment, large compaines going backrupt, and along with the so called stimulus package that has created to my knowlegde at least a few jobs for the mice that are being studied in California. We are now proposing healthcare for all and not only that we will pay for it by taxing everyone? and forcing them to have healthcare if they want it or not? Further, what private enterprise wants to compete with the very entity that regulates it? Eventually the only game in town will be the Federal Govt. as private insurers will not wish to compete with Fed. The fact is that the Federal Govt. has a dismal record on healthcare and the VA should be a good indication of that. While it's a noble thing to want the Govt. to provide healthcare for all, there are simply people out there that do not want healthcare coverage. Here is a novel idea, how about paying down the debt and putting the economy back on it's feet and letting Americans make their own healthcare choices there's a novel idea. If the Govt. really wanted to be in the business of helping the American public with reforming an industry, they would regulate as they are entitlied to do under the commerce clause and perhaps more companies would want to get into the healthcare insurance business. There are many solutions other than a draconian edict from on high that demands everyone has healthcare.

In other words, business usual. Unfortunately, one of the reasons the economy is tanking on main street is because of the ever-increasing costs of private health care. While people are justified in objecting to the cost involved in any government program, and so am I, the projections are just as scary if left as is.

More and more people are being denied personal plans or can only get health coverage with a high deductible, getting dropped from their employer plans, going bankrupt due to exhorbitant catastrophic medical costs even WITH private insurance, and are unable to sustain the average monthly premiums which are often higher than their mortgage or rent.

The GAO gave it's opinion on the *health* of health care about a year ago, and although it doesn't offer solutions, it does outline the overall problem which does not have an easy, nor cheap, answer.

Long-Term Fiscal Outlook:
Long-Term Federal Fiscal Challenge Driven Primarily by Health Care
GAO-08-912T June 17, 2008

Summary
[excerpts]

GAO was asked to provide its views on the long-term fiscal outlook. This statement addresses four key points: (1) the federal government's long-term fiscal outlook is a matter of utmost concern; (2) this challenge is driven primarily by health care cost growth; (3) reform of health care is essential but other areas also need attention which requires a multipronged solution; and (4) the federal government faces increasing pressures yet a shrinking window of opportunity for phasing in needed adjustments.

...

Long-term fiscal simulations by GAO, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), and others all show that despite a decline in the federal government's unified budget deficit between fiscal years 2003 and 2007, it still faces large and growing structural deficits driven primarily by rising health care costs and known demographic trends. Simply put, the federal government is on an unsustainable long-term fiscal path. Although Social Security is important because of its size, over the long term health care spending is the principal driver--Medicare and Medicaid are both large and projected to continue growing rapidly in the future.

Rapidly rising health care costs are not simply a federal budget problem. Growth in health-related spending is the primary driver of the fiscal challenges facing state and local governments as well.

Unsustainable growth in health care spending also threatens to erode the ability of employers to provide coverage to their workers and undercuts their ability to compete in a global marketplace.

Public and private health care spending continues to rise because of several key factors: (1) increased utilization of new and existing medical technology; (2) lack of reliable comparative information on medical outcomes, quality of care, and cost; and (3) increased prevalence of risk factors such as obesity that can lead to expensive chronic conditions.

Addressing health care costs and demographics--and their interaction--will be a major societal challenge. The longer action on reforming heath care and Social Security is delayed, the more painful and difficult the choices will become. The federal government faces increasing pressures yet a shrinking window of opportunity for phasing in adjustments. In fact, the oldest members of the baby-boom generation are now eligible for Social Security retirement benefits and will be eligible for Medicare benefits in less than 3 years. Additionally, in addressing this fiscal challenge it will be important to review other programs and activities on both the spending and revenue sides of the budget.

 

[MaggieMae]

what do you call free medical care for illegals?? I'm going to search for obamalma telling us 95 % would get tax cuts..

Do you work?

No

Oh my, where's her usual prattle? I think you've asked the magic question. Sarah, that will shut her up. (Now she'll try to tell us she's rich and doesn't have to work, or collects alimony--anything but admitting she probably lives off some gubmit program or her mummy & daddy.)

 

[MaggieMae]

Ok, there was a tax cut in the stimulus where working Americans are getting about $13 a week extra in their paycheck.

YES!!....i got my 13 bucks.....but i had to give it to the State of California....plus some....so.....BIG FUCKING DEAL.....oh im sorry....am i supposed to be excited?

Not you, but $13.00 a week, or $52 a month, probably pays somebody's phone bill.

 

[MaggieMae]

the government can't do anything less expensively than the private sector why would health care be any different?

You have tunnel vision. Even major health care providers are on board with the health care INSURANCE program (which is the only one on the table).

US Health Care Bleeds $1T, But Can Be Saved - Science & Health News Briefs | Newser

What the hell is Newser?

And the government will NOT be able to improve and expand care.

We might not be getting what we're paying for, according to Newser, but government involvement will make certain we will be getting even less than what we pay for.

"Newser" is an online news brief published by The Washington Post. Why ask? Do you think I made it up? And I know what you *think* about government involvement in health care. Tough. It's long overdue, so say the majority of thinking Americans who KNOW it is going to be costly but also consider it a top priority.

Skip over the first 3 polls having to do with swine flu and read the rest of the polls. Deal with it.

Health Policy

 

[WillowTree]

Do you work?

No

Oh my, where's her usual prattle? I think you've asked the magic question. Sarah, that will shut her up. (Now she'll try to tell us she's rich and doesn't have to work, or collects alimony--anything but admitting she probably lives off some gubmit program or her mummy & daddy.)

why? she didn't ask for details donkeyface,, it was a "yes" or "no" question.. my my my how you do extrapolate.. wassamatter? somebody put a new tweak in yer beak???

 

[MaggieMae]

He reiterated his support for allowing people to keep the plans they get through their jobs if they want, but also to offer the new public health insurance plan to compete against private insurers. "This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest," Obama wrote.

Obama urges Kennedy, Baucus to press ahead on healthcare - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is leaving the door open to taxing health care benefits, something he campaigned hard against while running for president, according to senators who met with him Tuesday.

The Associated Press: Obama said to be open to taxing health benefits

So let me see if I can understand this correctly, we have a record deficit, a massive debt, growing unemployment, large compaines going backrupt, and along with the so called stimulus package that has created to my knowlegde at least a few jobs for the mice that are being studied in California. We are now proposing healthcare for all and not only that we will pay for it by taxing everyone? and forcing them to have healthcare if they want it or not? Further, what private enterprise wants to compete with the very entity that regulates it? Eventually the only game in town will be the Federal Govt. as private insurers will not wish to compete with Fed. The fact is that the Federal Govt. has a dismal record on healthcare and the VA should be a good indication of that. While it's a noble thing to want the Govt. to provide healthcare for all, there are simply people out there that do not want healthcare coverage. Here is a novel idea, how about paying down the debt and putting the economy back on it's feet and letting Americans make their own healthcare choices there's a novel idea. If the Govt. really wanted to be in the business of helping the American public with reforming an industry, they would regulate as they are entitlied to do under the commerce clause and perhaps more companies would want to get into the healthcare insurance business. There are many solutions other than a draconian edict from on high that demands everyone has healthcare.

hey the government now owns auto companies that will compete with private businesses, why not just let the government open an insurance company as well.

before you know it, we'll have government owned retail stores

Which will destroy the auto industry, since the government makes the regulations they can regulate all the competition out of business then set the price to anything they want. Oh well, I hear the Japanese and Germans have some awesome automobile choices.

So who should own the auto companies? Nobody? It's an interim solution, just exactly as what happened to Chrysler in 1979 only on a larger scale because GM is much larger. But there is no reason to believe that with innovation and belt-tightening to produce cars that people WANT and will buy, that the government won't eventually be paid back (again, as it was paid back by Chrysler in 1980).

Chrysler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Government loan guarantees

A Dodge Aries. The "K-cars" are generally credited with saving Chrysler from bankruptcy. On September 7, 1979, The Chrysler Corporation petitioned the United States government for US$1.5 billion in loan guarantees to avoid bankruptcy. At the same time former Ford executive Lee Iacocca was brought in as CEO. He proved to be a capable public spokesman, appearing in advertisements to advise customers that "If you find a better car, buy it." He would also provide a rallying point for Japan-bashing and instilling pride in American products. His book Talking Straight was a response to Akio Morita's Made in Japan.

The United States Congress reluctantly passed the "Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979" (Public Law 96-185) on December 20, 1979 (signed into law by President Jimmy Carter on January 7, 1980), prodded by Chrysler workers and dealers in every congressional district who feared the loss of their livelihoods. The military then bought thousands of Dodge pickup trucks which entered military service as the Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicle M-880 Series. With such help and a few innovative cars (such as the K-car platform), especially the invention of the minivan concept, Chrysler avoided bankruptcy and slowly recovered.

In February 1982 Chrysler announced the sale of Chrysler Defense, its profitable defense subsidiary to General Dynamics for US$348.5 million. The sale was completed in March 1982 for the revised figure of US$336.1 million.[19]

By 1983, the loans were fully repaid,[20] several years ahead of time, resulting in a profit of $350 million to the U.S. government.[21] New models based on the K-car platform were selling well. A joint venture with Mitsubishi called Diamond Star Motors strengthened the company's hand in the small car market. Chrysler acquired American Motors Corporation (AMC) in 1987, primarily for its Jeep brand, although the failing Eagle Premier would be the basis for the Chrysler LH platform sedans. This bolstered the firm, although Chrysler was still the weakest of the Big Three.

 

[MaggieMae]

No

Oh my, where's her usual prattle? I think you've asked the magic question. Sarah, that will shut her up. (Now she'll try to tell us she's rich and doesn't have to work, or collects alimony--anything but admitting she probably lives off some gubmit program or her mummy & daddy.)

why? she didn't ask for details donkeyface,, it was a "yes" or "no" question.. my my my how you do extrapolate.. wassamatter? somebody put a new tweak in yer beak???

Learned a new one at the ol' watering hole last night? Bet you fell off your barstool over THAT keeper.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ok, there was a tax cut in the stimulus where working Americans are getting about $13 a week extra in their paycheck.

YES!!....i got my 13 bucks.....but i had to give it to the State of California....plus some....so.....BIG FUCKING DEAL.....oh im sorry....am i supposed to be excited?

Not you, but $13.00 a week, or $52 a month, probably pays somebody's phone bill.

yeah undoubtably.....unless they live in California.....the legislature out here,fighting for the poor guys they tell us,are in the process of FUCKING THE WHOLLY SHIT out of people already having a rough time.....but hey....life is good...