Democrats on the brink of suicide

[oreo]

Where are the Democrats who spoke out against Obama Pelosi and Reid's Battan Death March to the Left?

Evene Bayh was a 100% yes vote

Evan has announced his plan to retire. I kind of suspect he may take on Obama as the democrat candidate for 2012. But he's already cooked his goose by voting for these massive government spending monstrocities.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

If this is a different bill than that passed by the house, it needs all possible votes to pass. It needs to come to a vote again.

And I don't believe they have the 218 votes it takes for them to do it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

Here's a poll of polls average for the public option.

Public Option Polls

No party is committing suicide by passing something that is supported by those numbers.

FAIL.
These polls are outdated. And none of them show overwhelming support for a "public option" which is never defined in the questions. And the most recent polls also show the lowest approval numbers.
No, if the Dums did not see the election of Scott Brown, who made his campaign on opposing Obamacare, as a referendum then they are totally at sea. The arguments on this thread in favor of passing it seem to be of the "we'll show those Republicans" type.
I doubt the Democrats in Congress will go for anything Obama dishes up. They wont want any part of it. And he has shown himself to be so incompetent at getting things passed that will further complicate things.

 

[California Girl]

Personally, I doubt that the polls really tell us anything other than a lot of people want a public option and a lot of people do not. I don't think either side can legitimately state that their view is the majority view. That is if we are capable of actually being honest and non partisan about it.

 

[skookerasbil]

This could be the means of securing control of American government by the Democrats for generations. America wants health care. This may not be enough but it's a start.

That's pretty much been the underlying fear the GOP has had of this all along.

I think so. Health care will take its place alongside Social Security and Medicare as the epitome of good government. As with SS and MC, Democrats will get the credit and the gratitude of the American People for years to come.

s0n...........you really are way in over your head posting on this forum!!! Id suggest getting a little education over on People.com or something. I really hope, for you, its a matter of being wet behind the years.........young and naive. Othewise...........hopeless s0n. At this stage, you have the political IQ of a small soap dish!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

Here's a poll of polls average for the public option.

Public Option Polls

No party is committing suicide by passing something that is supported by those numbers.

FAIL.
These polls are outdated. And none of them show overwhelming support for a "public option" which is never defined in the questions. And the most recent polls also show the lowest approval numbers.
No, if the Dums did not see the election of Scott Brown, who made his campaign on opposing Obamacare, as a referendum then they are totally at sea. The arguments on this thread in favor of passing it seem to be of the "we'll show those Republicans" type.
I doubt the Democrats in Congress will go for anything Obama dishes up. They wont want any part of it. And he has shown himself to be so incompetent at getting things passed that will further complicate things.

They're outdated?? Well, that's interesting because a month ago, or two months ago, when those polls were taken, all I was hearing from the right was that the public didn't want the public option. You were wrong then you are wrong now.

Lieberman was one of those who blocked the public option in the Senate. In his state of CT the public option is supported by 64% of the people and his approval rating is at record lows.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hey, go for it, bubba. We can always roll it back after November.

 

[Cuyo]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

It's true, polls consistently show Americans want a public option. Show me one, even Faux, that show otherwise.

Polls for support of the current bill have been more mixed, but never with "Disapprove" outweighing "Approve," and remember many who "Disapprove" do so because they feel the bill does not go far enough (Taking a Kucinich approach)

Sorry Xenophobe, as hard as your heroes at Fox have tried to frame it otherwise, support for a public option has been massive and consistent, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Health Care Reform
61% Say Congress Should Start All Over Again on Health Care
Thursday, February 11, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement
President Obama this week called for a televised bipartisan summit to get his health care reform plan back on track, but 61% of U.S. voters say Congress should scrap that plan and start all over again.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds just 28% who think it is better to build on the health care plan that has been working its way through the House and Senate.

omg... I honestly try to keep keep it friendly but...

Do you see why it's soooo frustrating to try to talk to you guys about anything?

We're talking about a P U B L I C O P T I O N . . . . . Which has seen consistent positive support from the public.

So scrap it and start over? Perhaps people want that, if they start over with something with a public option. Kill the current bill? Yes, as long as they immediately proceed with a new bill with a public option.

I'm sorry but this has been back and forth for many posts now. Show me where the majority of american's don't want any reform, don't want a public option, or prefer republican solutions over democratic. (You can't find evidence of this. It doesn't exist.)

 

[The Rabbi]

You're first fallacy is that public option has seen consistent public support. Even NYCarabineer's polls only show a bare majority in favor of "public option" and that's without knowing the details. No, public option does not have support, once people understand what that means.
The second is that any health care bill will separate public option from any coercion by the gov't to buy health insurance. Without that clause public option will quickly become the dumping ground for insurance companies for people they cannot insure.
The third is that any of this is "deficit neutral." It is not. Obamacare will add billions to the budget. It is front loaded so taxes kick in immediately while benefits are delayed for years. Further, the budget scoring was achieved by cutting funds for Medicare (which does not have public support) to levels even below their already unrealistic levels.

No, there is no bill likely to be produced by Democrats that will either achieve any real reform or be able to be passed.

 

[Mike458877]

Obama to spell out new healthcare plan - Yahoo! News

The assholes are going to go for reconcilliation, and end the viabilty of their party for good.

The American people soldily rejected their 'plan' but they will try to force it down our throats anyway.

Of course, it will be repealed the same way they passed in december, the fools.

Well said.

They are simply trying to put on another dog and pony show for the American people, this time with Obama leading it with his bipartisan BS.

They have learned nothing and the American people have little to no impact on the ultra liberals like Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank and others.

The GOP needs to refuse to play and they need to expose them. Further the GOP needs to clean its own house and get rib of the hard right thinkers as well.

Its time to run this nation responsibly and on factual numbers, not ideology!

Mike

 

[AvgGuyIA]

If they pass a health care bill with public option on a 51-49 vote and Obama signs it, we will take over the Congress in 2010 and impeach that bastard's ass out of office soon after.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea they have decided on going with reconciliation. They'll ram some stuff through but they'll pay for that for many years to come. So i'm actually ok with them doing this. I knew all along that their "Bi-Partisanship" and "Hope & Change" rhetoric was just Bull Chit. Using reconciliation will change the game quite a bit. It will likely come back to haunt the Democrats at some point. No one supports this 'Worst U.S. Congress in history' at this point and this tactic will only seal their fate. So i say,please go for it Dems.

 

[Darkwind]

That's pretty much been the underlying fear the GOP has had of this all along.

I think so. Health care will take its place alongside Social Security and Medicare as the epitome of good government. As with SS and MC, Democrats will get the credit and the gratitude of the American People for years to come.

s0n...........you really are way in over your head posting on this forum!!! Id suggest getting a little education over on People.com or something. I really hope, for you, its a matter of being wet behind the years.........young and naive. Othewise...........hopeless s0n. At this stage, you have the political IQ of a small soap dish!!!

From the nonsense spewed, I think that is would be safe to say that this person is a freshly graduated person of public education. Not even a majority of Democrats think that SS and MC are good government.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

Here's a poll of polls average for the public option.

Public Option Polls

No party is committing suicide by passing something that is supported by those numbers.

Not one of the poll questions mentions that eventually all private insurance plans will be canceled and the public will be forced to get the government option insurance.

This is what the polls should be asking:

Question: Do you support the public option even though it means you will be forced out of your private plan and into a government insurance plan? Yes: .5% No: 99.5%

 

[slackjawed]

I encourage the democrats to continue on the same path as they have been. Don't change a thing.

 

[Darkwind]

It's true, polls consistently show Americans want a public option. Show me one, even Faux, that show otherwise.

Polls for support of the current bill have been more mixed, but never with "Disapprove" outweighing "Approve," and remember many who "Disapprove" do so because they feel the bill does not go far enough (Taking a Kucinich approach)

Sorry Xenophobe, as hard as your heroes at Fox have tried to frame it otherwise, support for a public option has been massive and consistent, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Health Care Reform
61% Say Congress Should Start All Over Again on Health Care
Thursday, February 11, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement
President Obama this week called for a televised bipartisan summit to get his health care reform plan back on track, but 61% of U.S. voters say Congress should scrap that plan and start all over again.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds just 28% who think it is better to build on the health care plan that has been working its way through the House and Senate.

omg... I honestly try to keep keep it friendly but...

Do you see why it's soooo frustrating to try to talk to you guys about anything?

We're talking about a P U B L I C O P T I O N . . . . . Which has seen consistent positive support from the public.

So scrap it and start over? Perhaps people want that, if they start over with something with a public option. Kill the current bill? Yes, as long as they immediately proceed with a new bill with a public option.

I'm sorry but this has been back and forth for many posts now. Show me where the majority of american's don't want any reform, don't want a public option, or prefer republican solutions over democratic. (You can't find evidence of this. It doesn't exist.)

I'll try one last time before I write you off as too stupid and unworthy of anyone's attention on these forums...

No one has said that the American people are against some kind of reform. In fact, that is the only poll that the Democrats and the majority of progressives on this forum point to in order to make their point.

What they ARE saying is that when you start talking about the current bill, as it is written, more then 60% of the American people are against it. There are a number of reasons they are against it, and there are a number of things that they agree with. But they are bright enough (unlike a majority of the progressives here) to understand that the good can't be whittled out of the bad. The current crop of elected officials just don't have the intelligence to accomplish this task. So the American people simply want the whole bill scrapped and for congress to start over.

The best way to craft a health care bill is to poll the people on what they don't want. So, the polls should be written very specifically and not generally.

I'd bet that those polls would be a huge eye-opener to the Democrats.

 

[slackjawed]

Health Care Reform
61% Say Congress Should Start All Over Again on Health Care
Thursday, February 11, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement
President Obama this week called for a televised bipartisan summit to get his health care reform plan back on track, but 61% of U.S. voters say Congress should scrap that plan and start all over again.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds just 28% who think it is better to build on the health care plan that has been working its way through the House and Senate.

omg... I honestly try to keep keep it friendly but...

Do you see why it's soooo frustrating to try to talk to you guys about anything?

We're talking about a P U B L I C O P T I O N . . . . . Which has seen consistent positive support from the public.

So scrap it and start over? Perhaps people want that, if they start over with something with a public option. Kill the current bill? Yes, as long as they immediately proceed with a new bill with a public option.

I'm sorry but this has been back and forth for many posts now. Show me where the majority of american's don't want any reform, don't want a public option, or prefer republican solutions over democratic. (You can't find evidence of this. It doesn't exist.)

I'll try one last time before I write you off as too stupid and unworthy of anyone's attention on these forums...

No one has said that the American people are against some kind of reform. In fact, that is the only poll that the Democrats and the majority of progressives on this forum point to in order to make their point.

What they ARE saying is that when you start talking about the current bill, as it is written, more then 60% of the American people are against it. There are a number of reasons they are against it, and there are a number of things that they agree with. But they are bright enough (unlike a majority of the progressives here) to understand that the good can't be whittled out of the bad. The current crop of elected officials just don't have the intelligence to accomplish this task. So the American people simply want the whole bill scrapped and for congress to start over.

The best way to craft a health care bill is to poll the people on what they don't want. So, the polls should be written very specifically and not generally.

I'd bet that those polls would be a huge eye-opener to the Democrats.

I bet these polls would be a huge eye-opener for all our elected leaders!

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea reconciliation really will change the game. It really could come back to haunt the Democrats at some point. I'm all for it.

 

[Darkwind]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

Here's a poll of polls average for the public option.

Public Option Polls

No party is committing suicide by passing something that is supported by those numbers.

Not one of the poll questions mentions that eventually all private insurance plans will be canceled and the public will be forced to get the government option insurance.

This is what the polls should be asking:

Question: Do you support the public option even though it means you will be forced out of your private plan and into a government insurance plan? Yes: .5% No: 99.5%

A better way to write the poll would be:

Do you support health care with a public option if that public option requires you to purchase insurance?

 

[Darkwind]

omg... I honestly try to keep keep it friendly but...

Do you see why it's soooo frustrating to try to talk to you guys about anything?

We're talking about a P U B L I C O P T I O N . . . . . Which has seen consistent positive support from the public.

So scrap it and start over? Perhaps people want that, if they start over with something with a public option. Kill the current bill? Yes, as long as they immediately proceed with a new bill with a public option.

I'm sorry but this has been back and forth for many posts now. Show me where the majority of american's don't want any reform, don't want a public option, or prefer republican solutions over democratic. (You can't find evidence of this. It doesn't exist.)

I'll try one last time before I write you off as too stupid and unworthy of anyone's attention on these forums...

No one has said that the American people are against some kind of reform. In fact, that is the only poll that the Democrats and the majority of progressives on this forum point to in order to make their point.

What they ARE saying is that when you start talking about the current bill, as it is written, more then 60% of the American people are against it. There are a number of reasons they are against it, and there are a number of things that they agree with. But they are bright enough (unlike a majority of the progressives here) to understand that the good can't be whittled out of the bad. The current crop of elected officials just don't have the intelligence to accomplish this task. So the American people simply want the whole bill scrapped and for congress to start over.

The best way to craft a health care bill is to poll the people on what they don't want. So, the polls should be written very specifically and not generally.

I'd bet that those polls would be a huge eye-opener to the Democrats.

I bet these polls would be a huge eye-opener for all our elected leaders!

Yes they would.

These polls should be asked of the people and each question should ask what penalty would the American people be willing to accept should they not follow the new health care laws.