Democrats on the brink of suicide

[Cuyo]

You obviously didnt look at the link I posted.
No one wants this bill. No one. Ramming it through will be suicide. Which is why I think Obama will do just that, telling the Congressional dems to just fall on their swords. I dont think it will happen. And if it does I think the courts will strike it down. The AGs in 11 states have already threatened to file suit.

You're missing the point. If anything, people are pissed that he's pandering to the R's too much. "This bill doesn't do enough," not "We don't need reform."

 

[EriktheRed]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

How about two dozen polls showing people don't want this? WOuld that make you shut up?
Pollster.com: Health Care Plan: Favor / Oppose
Not a single poll that shows this plan enjoys anything like majority support.

And again you're showing yourself to be not all that bright. We're talking about the Public Option here, which is one portion of the House bill and was dropped entirely from the Senate bill because a few Senators wouldn't budge on a deal with it in there. Ironically, the Public Option has consistently been shown to be popular with those polled, even in Arkansas, of all places.

Now, if we're gonna by polls, then the fact that that particular portion of the bill seems to be pretty popular would suggest that the maybe the country isn't quite as against a government solution to the HC problem as cons have been arguing.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, "doesnt do enough" can mean anything. When the specific proposals are aired people dont want them. Doesnt do enough could mean it doesnt incorporate the GOP proposals. IN fact, it probably does mean that.

 

[Joe Steel]

This could be the means of securing control of American government by the Democrats for generations. America wants health care. This may not be enough but it's a start.

That's pretty much been the underlying fear the GOP has had of this all along.

I think so. Health care will take its place alongside Social Security and Medicare as the epitome of good government. As with SS and MC, Democrats will get the credit and the gratitude of the American People for years to come.

 

[The Rabbi]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

How about two dozen polls showing people don't want this? WOuld that make you shut up?
Pollster.com: Health Care Plan: Favor / Oppose
Not a single poll that shows this plan enjoys anything like majority support.

And again you're showing yourself to be not all that bright. We're talking about the Public Option here, which is one portion of the House bill and was dropped entirely from the Senate bill because a few Senators wouldn't budge on a deal with it in there. Ironically, the Public Option has consistently been shown to be popular with those polled, even in Arkansas, of all places.

Now, if we're gonna by polls, then the fact that that particular portion of the bill seems to be pretty popular would suggest that the maybe the country isn't quite as against a government solution to the HC problem as cons have been arguing.

You can't strip out one sound bite from a bill and make any generalization about that. How about "public option that requires you to buy insurance"? I doubt anyone wants that. How about "public option that is a stalking horse for gov't takeover"? No support there.

 

[EriktheRed]

But when the proposals get specific, like Obama's, polls consistently run against it, very much so.

Back that up.

 

[Joe Steel]

No, "doesnt do enough" can mean anything. When the specific proposals are aired people dont want them. Doesnt do enough could mean it doesnt incorporate the GOP proposals. IN fact, it probably does mean that.

The GOP proposals are ineffective and little more than gifts to the CorporateCare thugs who have been exploiting the American People.

 

[Cuyo]

No, "doesnt do enough" can mean anything. When the specific proposals are aired people dont want them. Doesnt do enough could mean it doesnt incorporate the GOP proposals. IN fact, it probably does mean that.

Public support dropped dramatically when the P/O was dropped from the Senate.

People want this. The problem is, it's become such a quagmire of shit, people are confused. Remember that most don't follow these things the way we do, many are going on the emotions they picked up on the last soundbyte they heard, agreed? (Agreed on the last sentence only, of course)

 

[The Rabbi]

But when the proposals get specific, like Obama's, polls consistently run against it, very much so.

Back that up.

I did, dumbshit. Look at the link I posted. Over 20 polls and all of them opposed.

 

[EriktheRed]

You can't strip out one sound bite from a bill and make any generalization about that. How about "public option that requires you to buy insurance"? I doubt anyone wants that. How about "public option that is a stalking horse for gov't takeover"? No support there.

And again, you're showing yourself to pretty dense. Is this purposeful?

It's not a "sound bite". It's an actual provision separate from a bunch of other ones. And it's one that's been shown to be popular. You think so many people hate the current bill for the same reason you do? The public option's popularity suggests otherwise.

And if by chance we end up getting a healthcare bill with the public option finally passed and signed, I suspect you'll find polls suggesting the resulting bill isn't so hated after all.

 

[EriktheRed]

No, "doesnt do enough" can mean anything. When the specific proposals are aired people dont want them. Doesnt do enough could mean it doesnt incorporate the GOP proposals. IN fact, it probably does mean that.

The GOP proposals are ineffective and little more than gifts to the CorporateCare thugs who have been exploiting the American People.

But they'll have a chance this Thursday to explain why they're not. I can hardly wait for how they'll spin it.

 

[EriktheRed]

But when the proposals get specific, like Obama's, polls consistently run against it, very much so.

Back that up.

I did, dumbshit. Look at the link I posted. Over 20 polls and all of them opposed.

No, actually what your link shows is bunch of poll results. I'm saying show a source that backs up what you're claiming.

I have a source which suggests the opposite (and this guy's good):

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Health Care Polls: Opinion Gap or Information Gap?

 

[The Rabbi]

Are you this stupid in real life?
I did post a "bunch of polls" that asked about the specific proposals. All of them were negative.
ANyone can be for "public option" in the abstract. It is no wonder. It is like being for free beer and sex.
But when people understand what "public option" entails (high taxes and coercion) they arent so interested in it anymore. That is why the specific bills are so opposed.

 

[Xenophon]

Are you kidding?

Their party will always be viable. Same with the Repug party.

You are wrong this time.

No he's not. The Democrats will take an ass whooping this year for sure, but they will not be anymore non-viable in the future than the GOP has been. Democrats were talking the same shit about the Republican Party after the 2008 elections and now the Republicans are riding high less than two years later.

Yes, he is.

You are all playing by the old rule book.

It seems none of you have noticed the rules are changing.

The old ways of forgive and forget are fading, this is different now.

 

[Mike458877]

Democrats on the brink of suicide

Its the Obama factor ........ Hope & Change!

For the Republicans that is!

Mike

 

[skookerasbil]

Give me a Poll (Thats not a FOX Poll..Has to be non-partisan) that suggests the Majority is against the Public Option..It hasn't been "Shoved down your throats," It's been the second longest debate in Congress history.

It's true, polls consistently show Americans want a public option. Show me one, even Faux, that show otherwise.

Polls for support of the current bill have been more mixed, but never with "Disapprove" outweighing "Approve," and remember many who "Disapprove" do so because they feel the bill does not go far enough (Taking a Kucinich approach)

Sorry Xenophobe, as hard as your heroes at Fox have tried to frame it otherwise, support for a public option has been massive and consistent, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Health Care Reform
61% Say Congress Should Start All Over Again on Health Care
Thursday, February 11, 2010 Email to a Friend ShareThis.Advertisement
President Obama this week called for a televised bipartisan summit to get his health care reform plan back on track, but 61% of U.S. voters say Congress should scrap that plan and start all over again.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds just 28% who think it is better to build on the health care plan that has been working its way through the House and Senate.





Ooooops!!!!!

 

[Xenophon]

You can always tell the aparchiks are nerves when they circle jerk and try to change the subject, which is not 'public options.'

The ENTIRE BILL is opposed by a considerable majority of Americans.

And for those who keep saying parties live for ever, remember the whigs.

 

[Xenophon]

You obviously didnt look at the link I posted.
No one wants this bill. No one. Ramming it through will be suicide. Which is why I think Obama will do just that, telling the Congressional dems to just fall on their swords. I dont think it will happen. And if it does I think the courts will strike it down. The AGs in 11 states have already threatened to file suit.

You're missing the point. If anything, people are pissed that he's pandering to the R's too much. "This bill doesn't do enough," not "We don't need reform."

You really are a monumental asshole on any number of topics.

This is not about 'Rs' and 'Ds', its about a bill that is not liked and not wanted being shoved down the voter's throats.

as hard as your heroes at Fox have tried to frame it otherwise, support for a public option has been massive and consistent, I defy you to prove otherwise.

Imbecile.

No 'news' org is a hero, only a child or a fool would say so, and again, this is not about 'the public option,' pay attention.

Simpleton.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dems are playing Russian Roulette with a fully automatic AK47

WTG!!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

end the viabilty of their party for good.

Are you kidding?

Their party will always be viable. Same with the Repug party.

You are wrong this time.

No party can ever survive by pushing through something this hated directly against the stated will of Americans, this will shatter the Dems worse then anything else, as it will tear down the minority's abilty to oppose legislation and make everything about a slight majority rules.

You're either forgetting or discounting the power of the Dem party and its inherent ability to appeal to the young and the otherwise foolish in great numbers.

They may lose a few elections, short term -- but they will bounce back. They survived Carter, they can survive anything.