Dem Budget: 2 TRILLION in NEW TAX HIKES, Deep Cuts at Pentagon

[AVG-JOE]

You mean a "projected surplus?" There was no real surplus moron, it was only on paper. In other words, IT DIDN'T EXIST! That bull shit has been debunked a million times over on this board alone.

Get a clue.

And I'll show you a family who's income is $1M a year that's struggling just as soon as you show me a family that makes $25K a year that employs three people.

During the 80's & 90's spending was limited by PAYGO so there WAS a surplus in current revenues - the debt was still there, but deficit spending was not allowed. The credit card was kept in a drawer for safe keeping while payments were being made. If PAYGO were permanent, congress would have had to pay for all the shit they promised since 2003 instead of simply 'charging' ahead.

(Nice pun, eh? )

I think you and anyone else that is under the false impression that there was some kind of surplus under Clinton need to read this...

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus.

I stand corrected. Apparently deficit spending was alive and well during the 90's.

Doesn't diminish the value of returning to PAYGO. At least then we were making some headway against the debt.

I guarantee our deficit wouldn't be the huge problem that it has become if PAYGO hadn't expired in 2003.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Seems we have many more choices than that..

Open up ALL spending for cuts.
Fix Social Security by raising the retirement age
Generate enough revenue to pay for your budget
We need more money in and less money out

And yet the bill you said you agree with just so happened to have NONE of that in it LOL. And that's why you're a useless hack.

The Dems came out with a pro military, pro social program, pro bigger deficit spening Bill and your first words were "OMFG I LOVE YOU OBAMA!"

You claim to not love war but man you support the shit outa it, more than any Bush bot ever did, mainly because Obama is a bigger war president than Bush ever was.

Really?

How many American lives were lost supporting Obamas foreign policies? How many nations did he conquer to find imaginary WMDs and fight imaginary terrorists?

Obama's Cowboy Go it Alone Diplomacy...it different that Dubyas. It just is!

 

[boedicca]

Although how is he going to pay for it as most of the spending cuts in the Dem proposal are in the militiary?

 

[martybegan]

Fair enough...I work for the Dept of Defense and I will offer up cuts right now

What happened to the peace dividend after the end of the Cold War?
Why does the US need 11 Carrier Task Forces when no other nation has one?
Why do we need 2500 nuclear weapons and the subs, missiles and bombers to carry them? Nukes haven't been used in 60 years
Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan
Why is the US Military larger than the next ten militaries combined?

Before we start asking Americans to sacrifice healthcare, education, police, fire protection and infrastructure, let's look at our military mission around the globe

Defense is a federal responsibility, in the constitution.

Healthcare is not a federal responsibility.
Education is not a federal responsibility
Police is not a federal responsibility
Fire protection is not a federal responsibility
Infrastructure is only partially a federal responsibility: Interstate highways come to mind.

Are you telling me the US military is larger than the Chinese Military? This wiki article goes into that...

List of countries by number of troops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also if you worked for DOD you would know that out of the 11 groups (13 actually i think) only 4-6 can be forward deployed, with the others in maintenance.

Since the nukes were bought decades ago, how much is thier maintenance cost as a % of defense spending?

It all comes down to the mission we are expected to perform around the globe. Compared to the actual threat (no nation can compete with the US military) we have a military force much larger than is needed. We drew down our military after the Cold War because the Soviet Threat was gone. We have since allowed the military to grow back to Cold War levels

We are asking Americans to sacrifice at all levels. In an era of Domestic hardship can we afford to keep our current military?

Chinese military? Who gives a fuck about the Chinese Military? They cant even invade Taiwan, how can they invade the US? The primary mission of the Chinese Military is to keep 1.5 billion Chinese under control, not to fight the US

YOU were the one who called our military larger than the next 10. I proved you wrong. Evidently you care about it.

Now if you want to go by cost, yes ours costs more, because the US military principle since WWII has been that bodies are worth more than equipment and ordinance. The US method of making war is expensive in terms of money, but cheaper in terms of lives than other methods because we lavish our troops with the best technology availible, and plan out 20 years into the future to make sure we keep that edge. its what allows us a relatively small army per capita.

I guess you would prefer we go with less well equipped troops, now and 20 years from now.

The domestic crisis is caused not by defense spending, with the exeption of deployment costs (Ill give you that), but by promises made on entilements that no one really cared about worrying how to manage them. Add in current federal tasks that are best left to state/local governments and thats how we are spending more than we take in.

 

[martybegan]

Fair enough...I work for the Dept of Defense and I will offer up cuts right now

What happened to the peace dividend after the end of the Cold War?
Why does the US need 11 Carrier Task Forces when no other nation has one?
Why do we need 2500 nuclear weapons and the subs, missiles and bombers to carry them? Nukes haven't been used in 60 years
Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan
Why is the US Military larger than the next ten militaries combined?

Before we start asking Americans to sacrifice healthcare, education, police, fire protection and infrastructure, let's look at our military mission around the globe

Defense is a federal responsibility, in the constitution.

Healthcare is not a federal responsibility.
Education is not a federal responsibility
Police is not a federal responsibility
Fire protection is not a federal responsibility
Infrastructure is only partially a federal responsibility: Interstate highways come to mind.

Are you telling me the US military is larger than the Chinese Military? This wiki article goes into that...

List of countries by number of troops - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also if you worked for DOD you would know that out of the 11 groups (13 actually i think) only 4-6 can be forward deployed, with the others in maintenance.

Since the nukes were bought decades ago, how much is thier maintenance cost as a % of defense spending?

I suppose it depends on HOW you define 'larger'.

List of Countries by Military Expenditures

This thread is about SPENDING, yes?

Yes it costs more, but you get what you pay for. I answered this in the response above.

 

[hortysir]

From the article:

the top income tax rate would rise to 39.6 percent for individuals earning more than $500,000 a year and families earning more than $1 million. That group, which constitutes the nation’s richest 1 percent of households, would also pay a 20 percent rate on capital gains and dividends, rather than the 15 percent rate now in effect.

Way to freeze hiring and stifle investment

The blueprint would take nearly $900 billion from the Pentagon over the next decade — the same amount recommended by Obama’s fiscal commission. It would slice more than $350 billion from domestic programs. And it would produce interest savings of nearly $600 billion attributable to reduced borrowing.

Which "domestic programs" exactly, I wonder aloud....

(1)Only about $80 billion would be cut from Medicare, Medicaid and (2)other federal health programs, and nothing from Social Security. But even without touching those programs, the plan would (3)stabilize borrowing by 2014 and begin pushing the national debt down as a share of the economy.

This closing statement reminds me of that game in the Sunday comics where you try to find how many things are wrong.

1) No mention of the (doubly counted) 400 million that was stolen for Obamacare?

2) Speaking of "Obamacare"

3) I'll believe it when I see it


So we have a bunch of republicans that come out and say they can trim 4T with *just* spending cuts, meanwhile the democrats can't get to the same number without reaching into someone else's pocket.

Wonder which way I'm voting next year....

 

[WillowTree]

More taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes... that is the liberals answer to EVERYTHING! Damn these fucking MORONS to HELL.



Senate Democrats Draft Debt-Reduction Plan


By Lori Montgomery, Published: July 8

Senate Democrats have drafted a sweeping debt-reduction plan that would slice $4 trillion from projected borrowing over the next decade without touching the expensive health and retirement programs targeted by President Obama.

Instead, Senate Democrats are proposing to stabilize borrowing through sharp cuts at the Pentagon and other government agencies, as well as $2 trillion in new taxes, primarily on families earning more than $1 million year, according to a copy of the plan obtained by The Washington Post.

Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan - The Washington Post

Too damn bad the Senate DIms need the House to go along and the house belongs to the Republicans...

 

[Mr Natural]

Wrong... taxes are high enough already, and have been for years. More taxes will only crush the delicate state of the economy further into the toilet.

What part about that are you liberals incapable of understanding?

The part where you said taxes are high enough and have been for years. That doesn't make sense since taxes are at their lowest levels in 60 years.

For people who don't even pay taxes.

The dems just want to keep bleeding the rich for more and more and more.

How about EVERYONE, straight across the board, pay 13% taxes?

Fuck the rich!

 

[hortysir]

The part where you said taxes are high enough and have been for years. That doesn't make sense since taxes are at their lowest levels in 60 years.

For people who don't even pay taxes.

The dems just want to keep bleeding the rich for more and more and more.

How about EVERYONE, straight across the board, pay 13% taxes?

Fuck the rich!

Well, that's *one* way to pay for your BoostMobile phone

 

[NYcarbineer]

You can't invade countries, maintain a 10+ year presence in those countries and keep cutting taxes. That is just plain, fucking stupid.

Oil didn't pay for the wars like the Bush Admin said it would...they have to be paid for somehow.

But what the Right wants is to pay for that militarism, and the money it brings in for the defense lobby,

by turning the US into a third world country domestically. They want to virtually wipe out (if they had the power to do so) every bit of expenditure or law that goes to alleviating the consequences of being in the lower income brackets in America,

whether it be in health, education, food, shelter, labor, you name it.

In a perfect conservative world, all of that would be gone, and the US would look more like Mexico,

with a really really really big army.

And you want to turn us into a third world country internationally AND domestically.

Do you think the world will "like us" then?

I doubt that South Korea, Japan, and the EU will 'like us' more if we stop defending them for free.

I doubt that Iraq or Afghanistan will 'like us' more if we stop building them schools and roads and bridges and hospitals,

while people like you complain about practically every nickel spent on the same over here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Such a rant. How did you think 2 wars were going to be funded? By the tooth fairy?
Only in America, where a Democrat has a balanced budget, and a surplus, can it be squandered by the GOP (republican party) and Democrats are blamed for everything from the beginning of time. go figure.
Show us a family whose income is $1M and struggling???

You mean a "projected surplus?" There was no real surplus moron, it was only on paper. In other words, IT DIDN'T EXIST! That bull shit has been debunked a million times over on this board alone.

Get a clue.

And I'll show you a family who's income is $1M a year that's struggling just as soon as you show me a family that makes $25K a year that employs three people.

During the 80's & 90's spending was limited by PAYGO so there WAS a surplus in current revenues - the debt was still there, but deficit spending was not allowed. The credit card was kept in a drawer for safe keeping while payments were being made. If PAYGO were permanent, congress would have had to pay for all the shit they promised since 2003 instead of simply 'charging' ahead.

(Nice pun, eh? )

Bush and the Republican Congress let PAYGO expire and then proceeded to pursue an agenda that could have never passed PAYGO muster,

leading to the return of the deficits and the accumulation of more debt.

 

[Woyzeck]

More taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes... that is the liberals answer to EVERYTHING! Damn these fucking MORONS to HELL.



Senate Democrats Draft Debt-Reduction Plan


By Lori Montgomery, Published: July 8

Senate Democrats have drafted a sweeping debt-reduction plan that would slice $4 trillion from projected borrowing over the next decade without touching the expensive health and retirement programs targeted by President Obama.

Instead, Senate Democrats are proposing to stabilize borrowing through sharp cuts at the Pentagon and other government agencies, as well as $2 trillion in new taxes, primarily on families earning more than $1 million year, according to a copy of the plan obtained by The Washington Post.

Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan - The Washington Post

Taxing people who make more than one million dollars a year, the top 1% wealthiest in the country as the article describes them, and cutting the Pentagon's budget, a budget which is never audited and often have projects that go massively over-budget.

What's not to like?

 

[martybegan]

More taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes, more taxes... that is the liberals answer to EVERYTHING! Damn these fucking MORONS to HELL.



Senate Democrats Draft Debt-Reduction Plan


By Lori Montgomery, Published: July 8

Senate Democrats have drafted a sweeping debt-reduction plan that would slice $4 trillion from projected borrowing over the next decade without touching the expensive health and retirement programs targeted by President Obama.

Instead, Senate Democrats are proposing to stabilize borrowing through sharp cuts at the Pentagon and other government agencies, as well as $2 trillion in new taxes, primarily on families earning more than $1 million year, according to a copy of the plan obtained by The Washington Post.

Senate Democrats draft debt-reduction plan - The Washington Post

Taxing people who make more than one million dollars a year, the top 1% wealthiest in the country as the article describes them, and cutting the Pentagon's budget, a budget which is never audited and often have projects that go massively over-budget.

What's not to like?

its always easy to like other people paying for your stuff.

The pentagon's budget is audited, you are thinking of the CIA's "black" budget.

One of the problems in the pentagon is the archaic accounting structure, I agree. but it IS audited.

 

[rightwinger]

And yet the bill you said you agree with just so happened to have NONE of that in it LOL. And that's why you're a useless hack.

The Dems came out with a pro military, pro social program, pro bigger deficit spening Bill and your first words were "OMFG I LOVE YOU OBAMA!"

You claim to not love war but man you support the shit outa it, more than any Bush bot ever did, mainly because Obama is a bigger war president than Bush ever was.

Really?

How many American lives were lost supporting Obamas foreign policies? How many nations did he conquer to find imaginary WMDs and fight imaginary terrorists?

Obama's Cowboy Go it Alone Diplomacy...it different that Dubyas. It just is!

Do you mean like the bogus "Coalition of the willing"? Or using NATO to handle most of the mission in Libya?

 

[bripat9643]

Like it

EVERYTHING on the table....shared sacrifice for all

The Dem plan demands "sacrifice" only from the people who have already been sacrificing for decades. It's time for the tics on the ass of society to sacrifice. It's time government employees to get laid off and the rest of them to take a pay cut. It's time to end all government programs except for the truly needy. Time to end so-called "green jobs" boondoggles.

That's where the "sacrifices" need to take place. Taxpayers have sacrificed more than enough already.

 

[bripat9643]

The part where you said taxes are high enough and have been for years. That doesn't make sense since taxes are at their lowest levels in 60 years.

Wrong. Tax revenues are low only because so many people are out of work. Tax rates were at their lowest since 1932 at the end of the Reagan administration

 

[bripat9643]

Shared sacrifice my ass.

"Shared sacrifice" is a liberal euphemism for "bend over taxpayers!"

 

[boedicca]

Taxes are low because official Underemployment is 16.4%.

Add to that the people who are no longer counted as unemployed because they have given up looking for a job, and that figure increases to 22%+.

Tax receipts are down because Millions and Millions of people are not earning an income.

 

[bripat9643]

SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.

Does Social Security need to be addressed for the long term? Yes, but SOCIAL SECURITY IS NOT PART OF THE DEFICIT PROBLEM! IT HAS A DEDICATED TAX AND IT'S OWN TRUST FUND.

This ain't rocket science - let's not try to make it rocket science, eh?

Then let Social Security make its payments from the so-called "trust fund" and refrain from using any revenues from the general fund.

 

[daveman]

And yet the bill you said you agree with just so happened to have NONE of that in it LOL. And that's why you're a useless hack.

The Dems came out with a pro military, pro social program, pro bigger deficit spening Bill and your first words were "OMFG I LOVE YOU OBAMA!"

You claim to not love war but man you support the shit outa it, more than any Bush bot ever did, mainly because Obama is a bigger war president than Bush ever was.

Really?

How many American lives were lost supporting Obamas foreign policies? How many nations did he conquer to find imaginary WMDs and fight imaginary terrorists?

Obama's Cowboy Go it Alone Diplomacy...it different that Dubyas. It just is!

It must be...because no one on the left is opposing it.

If it wasn't for double standards, the left would have no standards at all.