Debunking the Reagan Myth

[code1211]

Below is the definition of Stagflation which was thought to be a desciption of an impossible condition. Reagan corrected this.

I suggest you read a bit of history, stagflation started during Nixon/Ford. Carter just didn't spend money as Reagan did, Reagan engaged in Keynesian economics, similar to Bush JR. But Reagan lowered taxes too far and the base collapsed, very similar to Bush junior with all the added economic gyrations. In the end I give Reagan some credit as he raised taxes like hell after he realized the disaster he was creating, trouble was, he simultaneously ruined the middle class with his idiotic lack of support for American worker rights. CEPR - America Since 1980: A Right Turn Leading to a Dead End

Reagan was a union man. He was quite proud of that.

I assume you are talking about his defiance of the Air Traffic Controllers who walked out on an illegal strike. As a Union man, Reagan demanded that they honor their agreement. When THEY broke the contract, the contract no longer existed. That's the way a contract works.

Reagan said repeatedly that he wanted spending reduced. The Democratic Congress continually increased it. He asked for a law to limit spending saying that if a child is spending too much, you don't ask him to stop, you cut his allowance. Never got the spending cuts, but he did inspire confidence.

After the malaise years of Carter during which he, too, told us how impotent we as a society are, Reagan's Shining House On the Hill Speech was inspiring. When he finished by saying God bless you all and God bless the United States of America, it literally brought tears to my eyes.

The POTUS is a cheerleader more than anything else. We as citizens will become what we are told we are. Obama is currently telling us we are baby killing defilers of the temples of Islam who torture good young men and steal from the disadvantaged to support lives of averice and greed.

Whoopie! Where do I sign up?

 

[Soaring]

Ronald Reagan advocated reduced business regulation, controlling inflation, reducing growth in government spending, and spurring economic growth through tax cuts. That worked so well, that we became one of the richest nations on earth. Obama is advocating just the opposite on all counts. Obama did not learn his lesson from one of the best U.S. presidents who ever sat in the Oval Office.

 

[PoliticalChic]

One caller on the Ed show today called up and was so incensed he waited an hour to tell the host that he was demonizing Reagan while deifying Obama.

The right has been so successful in the revisonist efforts on Ronny, they they actually believe he stopped the cold war and all other evils. Bullcrap. He was there at the right time and spoke well for an actor.

With his obscene I Am The Rich Trickle Down Theory, he began the war on destroying the middle class. I am still amazed by those in the current weakened and smaller middle class that still smile as he shoves his trickle down up your anal opening.

Historical narratives matter. That’s why conservatives are still writing books denouncing F.D.R. and the New Deal; they understand that the way Americans perceive bygone eras, even eras from the seemingly distant past, affects politics today.

Reactions From Around the WebAnd it’s also why the furor over Barack Obama’s praise for Ronald Reagan is not, as some think, overblown. The fact is that how we talk about the Reagan era still matters immensely for American politics.

Bill Clinton knew that in 1991, when he began his presidential campaign. “The Reagan-Bush years,” he declared, “have exalted private gain over public obligation, special interests over the common good, wealth and fame over work and family. The 1980s ushered in a Gilded Age of greed and selfishness, of irresponsibility and excess, and of neglect.”

Contrast that with Mr. Obama’s recent statement, in an interview with a Nevada newspaper, that Reagan offered a “sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”

Maybe Mr. Obama was, as his supporters insist, simply praising Reagan’s political skills. (I think he was trying to curry favor with a conservative editorial board, which did in fact endorse him.) But where in his remarks was the clear declaration that Reaganomics failed?

For it did fail. The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before — and the poverty rate had actually risen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/opinion/21krugman.html

I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am whenever I see that you have posted some opinion piece here on USMB.

I consider the gifts that I have been given, such as the ability to think, reason, give respect to those who have earned respect, write a lucid sentence, study, as blessings, and I consider what I would be if I had not those blessings.

And, of course, that would be you.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

If there is a myth, it's that government can impose equity and fairness in the course of enabling opportunity and prosperity.

The mark of a great free society is that you are free to win, and lose.

 

[Sinatra]

Below is the definition of Stagflation which was thought to be a desciption of an impossible condition. Reagan corrected this.

I suggest you read a bit of history, stagflation started during Nixon/Ford. Carter just didn't spend money as Reagan did, Reagan engaged in Keynesian economics, similar to Bush JR. But Reagan lowered taxes too far and the base collapsed, very similar to Bush junior with all the added economic gyrations. In the end I give Reagan some credit as he raised taxes like hell after he realized the disaster he was creating, trouble was, he simultaneously ruined the middle class with his idiotic lack of support for American worker rights. CEPR - America Since 1980: A Right Turn Leading to a Dead End

Reagan was a union man. He was quite proud of that.

I assume you are talking about his defiance of the Air Traffic Controllers who walked out on an illegal strike. As a Union man, Reagan demanded that they honor their agreement. When THEY broke the contract, the contract no longer existed. That's the way a contract works.

Reagan said repeatedly that he wanted spending reduced. The Democratic Congress continually increased it. He asked for a law to limit spending saying that if a child is spending too much, you don't ask him to stop, you cut his allowance. Never got the spending cuts, but he did inspire confidence.

After the malaise years of Carter during which he, too, told us how impotent we as a society are, Reagan's Shining House On the Hill Speech was inspiring. When he finished by saying God bless you all and God bless the United States of America, it literally brought tears to my eyes.

The POTUS is a cheerleader more than anything else. We as citizens will become what we are told we are. Obama is currently telling us we are baby killing defilers of the temples of Islam who torture good young men and steal from the disadvantaged to support lives of averice and greed.

Whoopie! Where do I sign up?

And regardin the union question - while the Big Business of Union Leadership loathed Reagan, many more within the rank and file of unions voted for Reagan - millions of them in fact.

As the American economy shot back into a pro-growth economy, union membership began to decline. It was an era of belief in self-motivation and accomplishment. (what those who wish to be given handouts simply call "greed".) a higher percentage of Americans moved up into a higher tax bracket under Ronald Reagan than any other modern era president. The role of unions began to diminish - which of course, only further reduced the union leadership into a cacophony of gnashing teeth and aggressive anti-Reagan campaigns - campaigns that continue to this day.

And the firing of the air trafffic controllers was a remarkable show of grit by a then-newly elected American president. He warned them to report back to work or else. The union leadership told the workers he was bluffing - (no president in recent history had stood up against a large national union) Reagan was not bluffing, and a tone for the remainder of his presidency was set - while both quite affable and positive, Reagan had an inner toughness that opponents found difficult to counter. A handful of years later, the Russian leadership would attempt to bluff Reagan, and he once again held his ground...and the world watched as the Russians blinked.

Reagan and Gorbachev leaving the Iceland summit, where sweeping nuclear weapon reduction talks broke down over the Soviet's insistence Reagan scrap his SDI program. Reagan's own staff urged the president to sign the deal - but Reagan held firm, insisting the Russians would return to the negotiating table more desperate for a deal than ever before. It was that critical juncture that many now point back to as the final nail in the Soviet coffin. Reagan was in the driver's seat - and Gorbachev and the Russians knew it, even if our own American media and even some within Reagan's own Cabinet did not.

Reagan knew - he always did.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjWDrTXMgF8]YouTube - Reagan - Tear Down This Wall[/ame]

 

[midcan5]

Reagan is a required myth, face it who else can the republicans look up to? But read about him sometime, read the links I gave above. He marks the beginning of the end for America, let's hope Obama can turn things around. After Hoover's inaction it took FDR many years to get us started and it took war spending and many deaths to finally bring back an America that cared for all. For those of us who saw the affect Reagan's actions had on America, he will always be the worst, and the facts and not opinion support that.

"...there's a growing realization that the starting point for many of the catastrophes confronting the United States today can be traced to Reagan's presidency. There's also a grudging reassessment that the "failed"- presidents of the 1970s--Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter--may deserve more credit for trying to grapple with the problems that now beset the country.


Nixon, Ford and Carter won scant praise for addressing the systemic challenges of America's oil dependence, environmental degradation, the arms race, and nuclear proliferation--all issues that Reagan essentially ignored and that now threaten the America's future."

OpEdNews » Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Reagan is a required myth, face it who else can the republicans look up to? But read about him sometime, read the links I gave above. He marks the beginning of the end for America, let's hope Obama can turn things around. After Hoover's inaction it took FDR many years to get us started and it took war spending and many deaths to finally bring back an America that cared for all. For those of us who saw the affect Reagan's actions had on America, he will always be the worst, and the facts and not opinion support that.

"...there's a growing realization that the starting point for many of the catastrophes confronting the United States today can be traced to Reagan's presidency. There's also a grudging reassessment that the "failed"- presidents of the 1970s--Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter--may deserve more credit for trying to grapple with the problems that now beset the country.


Nixon, Ford and Carter won scant praise for addressing the systemic challenges of America's oil dependence, environmental degradation, the arms race, and nuclear proliferation--all issues that Reagan essentially ignored and that now threaten the America's future."

OpEdNews » Ronald Reagan: Worst President Ever?

Anyone else caught and later admitting and accepting responsibility for the sale of arms to a sworn US enemy would have been hung for treason.

But when the greedy get a little money, things have a way of being forgiven.

 

[Sinatra]

I suggest you read a bit of history, stagflation started during Nixon/Ford. Carter just didn't spend money as Reagan did, Reagan engaged in Keynesian economics, similar to Bush JR. But Reagan lowered taxes too far and the base collapsed, very similar to Bush junior with all the added economic gyrations. In the end I give Reagan some credit as he raised taxes like hell after he realized the disaster he was creating, trouble was, he simultaneously ruined the middle class with his idiotic lack of support for American worker rights. CEPR - America Since 1980: A Right Turn Leading to a Dead End

Reagan was a union man. He was quite proud of that.

I assume you are talking about his defiance of the Air Traffic Controllers who walked out on an illegal strike. As a Union man, Reagan demanded that they honor their agreement. When THEY broke the contract, the contract no longer existed. That's the way a contract works.

Reagan said repeatedly that he wanted spending reduced. The Democratic Congress continually increased it. He asked for a law to limit spending saying that if a child is spending too much, you don't ask him to stop, you cut his allowance. Never got the spending cuts, but he did inspire confidence.

After the malaise years of Carter during which he, too, told us how impotent we as a society are, Reagan's Shining House On the Hill Speech was inspiring. When he finished by saying God bless you all and God bless the United States of America, it literally brought tears to my eyes.

The POTUS is a cheerleader more than anything else. We as citizens will become what we are told we are. Obama is currently telling us we are baby killing defilers of the temples of Islam who torture good young men and steal from the disadvantaged to support lives of averice and greed.

Whoopie! Where do I sign up?

And regardin the union question - while the Big Business of Union Leadership loathed Reagan, many more within the rank and file of unions voted for Reagan - millions of them in fact.

As the American economy shot back into a pro-growth economy, union membership began to decline. It was an era of belief in self-motivation and accomplishment. (what those who wish to be given handouts simply call "greed".) a higher percentage of Americans moved up into a higher tax bracket under Ronald Reagan than any other modern era president. The role of unions began to diminish - which of course, only further reduced the union leadership into a cacophony of gnashing teeth and aggressive anti-Reagan campaigns - campaigns that continue to this day.

And the firing of the air trafffic controllers was a remarkable show of grit by a then-newly elected American president. He warned them to report back to work or else. The union leadership told the workers he was bluffing - (no president in recent history had stood up against a large national union) Reagan was not bluffing, and a tone for the remainder of his presidency was set - while both quite affable and positive, Reagan had an inner toughness that opponents found difficult to counter. A handful of years later, the Russian leadership would attempt to bluff Reagan, and he once again held his ground...and the world watched as the Russians blinked.

Reagan and Gorbachev leaving the Iceland summit, where sweeping nuclear weapon reduction talks broke down over the Soviet's insistence Reagan scrap his SDI program. Reagan's own staff urged the president to sign the deal - but Reagan held firm, insisting the Russians would return to the negotiating table more desperate for a deal than ever before. It was that critical juncture that many now point back to as the final nail in the Soviet coffin. Reagan was in the driver's seat - and Gorbachev and the Russians knew it, even if our own American media and even some within Reagan's own Cabinet did not.

Reagan knew - he always did.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjWDrTXMgF8]YouTube - Reagan - Tear Down This Wall[/ame]

Sorry folks, but Reagan's legacy continues to grow as an essential and positive part of the American cannon with each passing year.

None of your leftist revisioning is changing that fact.

Even liberal historians acknowledge (albeit grudgingly) of the scope of Reagan's success.

Reagan voted "Greatest American" :

BBC NEWS | Americas | Reagan voted 'greatest American'

Reagan won more electoral votes than any President in American history:

WikiAnswers - Which president has gotten the most electoral votes in history

Reagan wins poll as President Republicans and Independents would like to bring back the most - as well as winning overall by far among 30 to 49 year olds polled.

JFK and Ronald Reagan Win Gallup Presidents Day Poll

Reagan polls highest of any President of last 50 years:

Historical rankings of United States Presidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

God Bless Ronald Reagan!

 

[Sweet Willy]

Hitler was a popular guy too.

Not comparing Reagan to Hitler, just saying this isn't a pagent.

Reagan did well to steer us away from the concerns about foreign oil dependancy that had plagued Nixon, Ford and Carter. He got with the business of burning oil and getting into bed with our enemies as fast as he could. Worked out great in the short run. No question. But we're back to being held hostage to Oil already.

Anyone can compromise principles for money and look good for a while.

 

[Missourian]

Hitler was a popular guy too.

Not comparing Reagan to Hitler, just saying this isn't a pagent.

Reagan did well to steer us away from the concerns about foreign oil dependancy that had plagued Nixon, Ford and Carter. He got with the business of burning oil and getting into bed with our enemies as fast as he could. Worked out great in the short run. No question. But we're back to being held hostage to Oil already.

Anyone can compromise principles for money and look good for a while.

So what have YOU done to free yourself, hostage?

Have you sold your car and bought a bike?

Bought an electric car?

Put solar panels on your roof?

Erected a windmill?

What, none of these things???

I know, I know, it's all Ronnie's fault and you're waiting for the government to save you...

 

[Sweet Willy]

Hitler was a popular guy too.

Not comparing Reagan to Hitler, just saying this isn't a pagent.

Reagan did well to steer us away from the concerns about foreign oil dependancy that had plagued Nixon, Ford and Carter. He got with the business of burning oil and getting into bed with our enemies as fast as he could. Worked out great in the short run. No question. But we're back to being held hostage to Oil already.

Anyone can compromise principles for money and look good for a while.

So what have YOU done to free yourself, hostage?

Have you sold your car and bought a bike?

Bought an electric car?

Put solar panels on your roof?

Erected a windmill?

What, none of these things???

I know, I know, it's all Ronnie's fault and you're waiting for the government to save you...

Wind generator - check. I actually have two. They actually aren't very efficient here but they are home built so they cost very little. A couple junk yard alternators, home made props and a shop built pulley system.

900 watts of solar - check.

Golf cart - check ( I live in a small neighborhood. Never use gas for gorcery trips, etc.)

Wood stove - Check. Renewable resource. My only source of heat.


Consumption has been my main priority. I do not own or use a conventional clothes dryer. I hang my laundry on the line. I own only a cube fridge and no freezer. My average power bill is $16 a month. On demand hot water. I do air condition a single room in the house on hot summer days.

I don't know if it's for everyone, but it works for me.

 

[Missourian]

Hitler was a popular guy too.

Not comparing Reagan to Hitler, just saying this isn't a pagent.

Reagan did well to steer us away from the concerns about foreign oil dependancy that had plagued Nixon, Ford and Carter. He got with the business of burning oil and getting into bed with our enemies as fast as he could. Worked out great in the short run. No question. But we're back to being held hostage to Oil already.

Anyone can compromise principles for money and look good for a while.

So what have YOU done to free yourself, hostage?

Have you sold your car and bought a bike?

Bought an electric car?

Put solar panels on your roof?

Erected a windmill?

What, none of these things???

I know, I know, it's all Ronnie's fault and you're waiting for the government to save you...

Wind generator - check. I actually have two. They actually aren't very efficient here but they are home built so they cost very little. A couple junk yard alternators, home made props and a shop built pulley system.

900 watts of solar - check.

Golf cart - check ( I live in a small neighborhood. Never use gas for gorcery trips, etc.)

Wood stove - Check. Renewable resource. My only source of heat.


Consumption has been my main priority. I do not own or use a conventional clothes dryer. I hang my laundry on the line. I own only a cube fridge and no freezer. My average power bill is $16 a month. On demand hot water. I do air condition a single room in the house on hot summer days.

I don't know if it's for everyone, but it works for me.

So what you're saying is that you are NOT a hostage to oil.

 

[Sweet Willy]

So what have YOU done to free yourself, hostage?

Have you sold your car and bought a bike?

Bought an electric car?

Put solar panels on your roof?

Erected a windmill?

What, none of these things???

I know, I know, it's all Ronnie's fault and you're waiting for the government to save you...

Wind generator - check. I actually have two. They actually aren't very efficient here but they are home built so they cost very little. A couple junk yard alternators, home made props and a shop built pulley system.

900 watts of solar - check.

Golf cart - check ( I live in a small neighborhood. Never use gas for gorcery trips, etc.)

Wood stove - Check. Renewable resource. My only source of heat.


Consumption has been my main priority. I do not own or use a conventional clothes dryer. I hang my laundry on the line. I own only a cube fridge and no freezer. My average power bill is $16 a month. On demand hot water. I do air condition a single room in the house on hot summer days.

I don't know if it's for everyone, but it works for me.

So what you're saying is that you are NOT a hostage to oil.

Not at all.

I would be overwhelmed by the rest of community that is hostage. I became aware of that last year. Despite my personal efforts, fact is, if the oil ran out tomorrow, I'd have to stand guard 24hrs a day to protect my firewood, battery bank, panels, the garden, all of it. I'd be ripped off within weeks.

I am looking at a place in the country to help with that.

 

[dilloduck]

Wind generator - check. I actually have two. They actually aren't very efficient here but they are home built so they cost very little. A couple junk yard alternators, home made props and a shop built pulley system.

900 watts of solar - check.

Golf cart - check ( I live in a small neighborhood. Never use gas for gorcery trips, etc.)

Wood stove - Check. Renewable resource. My only source of heat.


Consumption has been my main priority. I do not own or use a conventional clothes dryer. I hang my laundry on the line. I own only a cube fridge and no freezer. My average power bill is $16 a month. On demand hot water. I do air condition a single room in the house on hot summer days.

I don't know if it's for everyone, but it works for me.

So what you're saying is that you are NOT a hostage to oil.

Not at all.

I would be overwhelmed by the rest of community that is hostage. I became aware of that last year. Despite my personal efforts, fact is, if the oil ran out tomorrow, I'd have to stand guard 24hrs a day to protect my firewood, battery bank, panels, the garden, all of it. I'd be ripped off within weeks.

I am looking at a place in the country to help with that.

weeks if even days--good insight

 

[Sweet Willy]

So what you're saying is that you are NOT a hostage to oil.

Not at all.

I would be overwhelmed by the rest of community that is hostage. I became aware of that last year. Despite my personal efforts, fact is, if the oil ran out tomorrow, I'd have to stand guard 24hrs a day to protect my firewood, battery bank, panels, the garden, all of it. I'd be ripped off within weeks.

I am looking at a place in the country to help with that.

weeks if even days--good insight

I wish I could claim insight. I never saw it coming until we were out of gas for 6 weeks. The closest town with gas was 22 miles away. A BUNCH of the locals who don't get that far often were stuck here with no way to the Post office, gocery store, the doctors office, etc. I have been driving my cart around town for several years. One of my neighbors does too. We were both overwhelmed with people needing to get groceries or to the doctor's office.

And that didn't involve a loss of heating oil or gas.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Not that anyone asked but......

As far as the energy independence issue, it IS a government issue. Once you've taken on the problem yourself and discovered exactly all the things that you have taken for granted, the things that do hold you hostage to oil and the grid, you begin to see things a little differently.

We can all step back 100 years or so and restructure everything back to a local level, milk cows, chickens, eggs, butter, corn, etc....which is not a realistic option, OR

We can encourage individuals to tackle their energy problems independently, which is unattainable for the overwhelming numbers of people, no different that leaving everyone in the dark that couldn't generate their own energy from the first light bulb....OR

We can address the issue on a national level and bring the solution to the people - all of the people, through progressive changes in infrastructure that supports a new system of energy.....OR (most likely scenario)

We can continue with oil dependance until it slowly becomes out of reach from one level to the next of American economic levels, until the progressive shift in infrastructure is forced.

One way or the other, we will not be hostage to oil forever. We can free ourselves or allow the oil to have it's full punishment on us as hostages. I'm betting on the full pain and suffering as hostages.

 

[Missourian]

I don't agree...there will come a day when a non -petroleum fired vehicle will be invented that is superior to the internal combustion engine. It will, thru natural market pressures, supplant the gasoline engine because it it better, just as surely as gasoline engines supplanted steam engines. People will buy it because it is better, not because the government foists it on them. To force the evolution before the technology is viable is foolishness.

 

[DiveCon]

I don't agree...there will come a day when a non -petroleum fired vehicle will be invented that is superior to the internal combustion engine. It will, thru natural market pressures, supplant the gasoline engine because it it better, just as surely as gasoline engines supplanted steam engines. People will buy it because it is better, not because the government foists it on them. To force the evolution before the technology is viable is foolishness.

i've been waiting for the hydrogen powered SUV's

 

[garyd]

Ed I did not cut and run I told you your argument as you stated here was stupid then and it is stupid now.

Reagan's tax cut could not possibly have impact the economy significantly before 1983. It was a rate cut not a rebate. You do Know the difference right?

Willy the primary reason we are not energy independent already is because of government planning.

 

[Sinatra]

I don't agree...there will come a day when a non -petroleum fired vehicle will be invented that is superior to the internal combustion engine. It will, thru natural market pressures, supplant the gasoline engine because it it better, just as surely as gasoline engines supplanted steam engines. People will buy it because it is better, not because the government foists it on them. To force the evolution before the technology is viable is foolishness.

Reagan would have agreed with this!