Controversial Topic

[TakeAStepBack]

Nor should the antics of criminal Zionists be defended.

Basically, we cannot abandon those who are there now. For most Israelis who were born there, it is the only home they have ever known. The establishment of the state of Israel was based on a lie and it was wrong. The dream was a nightmare and a colonial white wash, just like the founding of America. It was based on the premise that you can take one nation of people, and displace another nation of people that are already living on a piece of land to create a new nation there. Well of course you are going to have conflict.

The natives that live in the Dakotas still want to have their own nation. LOOK IT UP. Doesn't anyone remember the Battle of little Big Horn and Custer's Last Stand? Sure, to us in the U.S., that is all ancient history, it's all been resolved, but to them out there, they that live in poverty and scarcity under the oppression of the BIA, it is a daily fight against oppression and apartheid. Hell, they would like their people's rights and sovereignty recognized by the UN just like the Palestinian Authority. Well, what do you think, think the US federal government would ever go for that?

Realistically, we can not do this. We have to all learn to live in peace. The only solution is a ONE STATE SOLUTION with equal rights for all. Unfortunately, the Lakota of the Siox nations on the reservation still want to keep to their old ways, so it still remains nearly impossible to have a one state solution. The ways of the western world are radically different to the communitarian ways of native style culture and governing. (That is a whole other thread.) But if the Palestinians agree to live in the government created by the Israelis, or they create of government together. . . . ah, now we come to the crux of the issue. . .

That fact of the matter is, the conservatives, (or should we say, fascist elements) of the Israeli government that have held the leash of the Mossad have had alternative motives for drawing in the US into a conflagration.

Israel Seeks War on Iran to keep Lid on 9/11
Israel Seeks War on Iran to keep Lid on 9/11 | Veterans Today

Almost every politically-aware person on the planet is puzzled by Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s bizarre obsession with Iran. Netanyahu is risking his political career, his reputation, and Israel’s future by intervening in the US presidential elections. He is using all of Zionism’s considerable might – including organized crime assets like “Las Vegas Godfather” Sheldon Adelson – to force Obama to attack Iran; or, failing that, to make sure that Obama is defeated by the Zionist puppet Romney. There are even rumors of Israeli-sponsored assassination attempts on Obama.

Even the rabidly pro-Zionist (but relatively honest) Jewish Daily Forward editorialized:

It’s difficult to recall a time when an Israeli prime minister has inserted himself into a presidential election campaign in the way that Benjamin Netanyahu has. It’s even harder to recall a time when a trusted ally openly urged the American president to undertake a questionable, unpopular and highly risky war. We sure hope Netanyahu knows what he’s doing, because the stakes for him — and for the two nations he professes to care about the most — could not be higher.

Of course he doesn’t really believe such nonsense. Even hard-line Israeli strategists admit that Iran appears to be only developing nuclear expertise, not actual weapons, and that in their worst-case scenario, Israel could live with a nuclear-armed Iran. After all, Iran has not attacked another nation in centuries.

Since the “nuclear crisis” is a hoax (like alleged Iraqi WMD in 2003) then what is the real reason for Netanyahu’s Iran obsession? Is it the Iranian government’s support for anti-Zionist resistance groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, and its calls for an end to Zionism through free and fair elections?

Perhaps. Iran’s open commitment to principled anti-Zionism represents the nearly unanimous position of the people of the Middle East, who have never accepted the genocidal Zionist entity as a legitimate state. Israel has been able to bully every other government in the region into shameful silence. The Islamic Republic of Iran will not be silenced. Leveling Iran with bombs would send a message to future Middle Eastern governments: Do not give a voice to your people’s resistance to Zionism, or else!

But while starting a war might punish Iran for its anti-Zionism, such a war would carry terrible risks for Israel. Even if all went well for Israel on the battlefield, the suffering of the people of Iran would probably shame the world into turning against Zionism even more sharply than the world turned against apartheid in the 1980s.

Netanyahu needs the 9/11-triggered 100-years-war on Islam to continue for the very good reason that if it does not, the State of Emergency still in place in the US will be lifted, and Americans, unencumbered by the National Security restrictions of wartime, will quickly learn what really happened on September 11th, 2001. That possibility poses a very real existential threat to Israel – and to Netanyahu.

As Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Strategic Studies at the US Army War College, told Press TV: “I have had long conversations over the past two weeks with contacts at the Army War College, at the Marine Corps Headquarters, and I have made it absolutely clear in both cases that it is 100 percent certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. Period. If Americans ever know that Israel did this, they are going to scrub them off the earth.” And even if Israel were “scrubbed off the earth” peacefully through a one-state solution, Netanyahu would certainly hang for his role in the 9/11 attacks.

Unfortunately for Netanyahu and Zionism, Dr. Sabrosky isn’t the only US National Security insider leaking the truth about 9/11. Hundreds of military and intelligence people have come forward (see: Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report ).The two biggest recent leaks are revelations by CIA asset Susan Lindauer that the CIA had detailed foreknowledge of 9/11 and attributed the controlled demolitions of the three NYC skyscrapers to “those goddamned Israelis”; and the assertion by Gwenyth Todd, who worked beside Richard Clarke on the National Security Council, that Clarke (who was publicly fired from an earlier job for being an Israeli spy) is the top suspect as hands-on controller of 9/11 from the US end. Yes, you heard that right: Richard Clarke’s colleague on the National Security Counsel, Gwenyth Todd, suspects Clarke of masterminding and running the 9/11 attacks. If Todd and other high-level sources are right about this, Clarke’s book’s title Your Government Failed You is an understatement.

You want the truth? You and most Americans can't handle the truth.

Wow. That's some pretty explosive allegations going on in that piece. If there is any evidence to support such an allegation, it should be thoroughly investigated.

 

[catzmeow]

Nor should the antics of criminal Zionists be defended.

Basically, we cannot abandon those who are there now. For most Israelis who were born there, it is the only home they have ever known. The establishment of the state of Israel was based on a lie and it was wrong. The dream was a nightmare and a colonial white wash, just like the founding of America. It was based on the premise that you can take one nation of people, and displace another nation of people that are already living on a piece of land to create a new nation there. Well of course you are going to have conflict.

The natives that live in the Dakotas still want to have their own nation. LOOK IT UP. Doesn't anyone remember the Battle of little Big Horn and Custer's Last Stand? Sure, to us in the U.S., that is all ancient history, it's all been resolved, but to them out there, they that live in poverty and scarcity under the oppression of the BIA, it is a daily fight against oppression and apartheid. Hell, they would like their people's rights and sovereignty recognized by the UN just like the Palestinian Authority. Well, what do you think, think the US federal government would ever go for that?

Realistically, we can not do this. We have to all learn to live in peace. The only solution is a ONE STATE SOLUTION with equal rights for all. Unfortunately, the Lakota of the Siox nations on the reservation still want to keep to their old ways, so it still remains nearly impossible to have a one state solution. The ways of the western world are radically different to the communitarian ways of native style culture and governing. (That is a whole other thread.) But if the Palestinians agree to live in the government created by the Israelis, or they create of government together. . . . ah, now we come to the crux of the issue. . .

That fact of the matter is, the conservatives, (or should we say, fascist elements) of the Israeli government that have held the leash of the Mossad have had alternative motives for drawing in the US into a conflagration.

Israel Seeks War on Iran to keep Lid on 9/11
Israel Seeks War on Iran to keep Lid on 9/11 | Veterans Today

Almost every politically-aware person on the planet is puzzled by Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s bizarre obsession with Iran. Netanyahu is risking his political career, his reputation, and Israel’s future by intervening in the US presidential elections. He is using all of Zionism’s considerable might – including organized crime assets like “Las Vegas Godfather” Sheldon Adelson – to force Obama to attack Iran; or, failing that, to make sure that Obama is defeated by the Zionist puppet Romney. There are even rumors of Israeli-sponsored assassination attempts on Obama.

Even the rabidly pro-Zionist (but relatively honest) Jewish Daily Forward editorialized:

It’s difficult to recall a time when an Israeli prime minister has inserted himself into a presidential election campaign in the way that Benjamin Netanyahu has. It’s even harder to recall a time when a trusted ally openly urged the American president to undertake a questionable, unpopular and highly risky war. We sure hope Netanyahu knows what he’s doing, because the stakes for him — and for the two nations he professes to care about the most — could not be higher.

Netanyahu needs the 9/11-triggered 100-years-war on Islam to continue for the very good reason that if it does not, the State of Emergency still in place in the US will be lifted, and Americans, unencumbered by the National Security restrictions of wartime, will quickly learn what really happened on September 11th, 2001. That possibility poses a very real existential threat to Israel – and to Netanyahu.

As Alan Sabrosky, former Director of Strategic Studies at the US Army War College, told Press TV: “I have had long conversations over the past two weeks with contacts at the Army War College, at the Marine Corps Headquarters, and I have made it absolutely clear in both cases that it is 100 percent certain that 9/11 was a Mossad operation. Period. If Americans ever know that Israel did this, they are going to scrub them off the earth.” And even if Israel were “scrubbed off the earth” peacefully through a one-state solution, Netanyahu would certainly hang for his role in the 9/11 attacks.

Unfortunately for Netanyahu and Zionism, Dr. Sabrosky isn’t the only US National Security insider leaking the truth about 9/11. Hundreds of military and intelligence people have come forward (see: Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report ).The two biggest recent leaks are revelations by CIA asset Susan Lindauer that the CIA had detailed foreknowledge of 9/11 and attributed the controlled demolitions of the three NYC skyscrapers to “those goddamned Israelis”; and the assertion by Gwenyth Todd, who worked beside Richard Clarke on the National Security Council, that Clarke (who was publicly fired from an earlier job for being an Israeli spy) is the top suspect as hands-on controller of 9/11 from the US end. Yes, you heard that right: Richard Clarke’s colleague on the National Security Counsel, Gwenyth Todd, suspects Clarke of masterminding and running the 9/11 attacks. If Todd and other high-level sources are right about this, Clarke’s book’s title Your Government Failed You is an understatement.

You want the truth? You and most Americans can't handle the truth.

Wow. That's some pretty explosive allegations going on in that piece. If there is any evidence to support such an allegation, it should be thoroughly investigated.

Personally, I think it's time for the nurse to give him a nice dose of klonipin and put him back in bed.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Who?

 

[The Rabbi]

What demands will you put on the Palestinians and the Arabs that support them?

Are we currently providing aid to the palestinians? Which Arab countries are we giving aid to that is on par with what we are giving to Israel?

Yes
Obama Waiver to Restart US Aid to Palestinian Authority -- News from Antiwar.com

Now you're going to move the goal posts and say it isnt the same amount, or somesuch bullshit.
I think you have an agenda here. Actually I know you have an agenda.

 

[The Rabbi]

I see Pakistan has exceeded Israel in foreign aid. Where is your outrage at providing so much money to an Islamic regime that hid bin Laden for so many years and has supported Islamic terrorism?
This is what marks anti-Israel/anti-Semitism: a double standard for other countries and for Israel. If you were against all foreign aid, we could debate it. But you aren't. You single out Israel, make absurd, ignorant declarations about it, ignore a good chunk of history, and then when called on it declare victory.

You have a fairly arrogant tone considering that you've provided false information above.

I have plenty of outrage at Pakistan, but I also understand that in a sense, we are bribing them to allow military operations against Al Qaeda on their land, and we are using the money to gain their support in anti-terror activities. I personally question how well-spent that money has been, and I'd suggest that we cut back on aid funding for Pakistan, as well, in light of the failure of the Pakistani government to really comply with anti-Terror objectives.

What are we getting from Israel? You still haven't answered that question, even though it's been asked several times.

You have a fairly arrogant tone, assuming Israel should be America's bitch while not holding other countries to the same standard.
The question as to what we get from Israel has been answered here many times, in many different ways. That you fail to comprehend it is not my fault.

 

[catzmeow]

You have a fairly arrogant tone, assuming Israel should be America's bitch while not holding other countries to the same standard.

I think any country that's getting billions of dollars from us should totally be our bitch. Israel's not special. They're just the fattest little piggy at the trough.

 

[catzmeow]

What demands will you put on the Palestinians and the Arabs that support them?

Are we currently providing aid to the palestinians? Which Arab countries are we giving aid to that is on par with what we are giving to Israel?

Yes
Obama Waiver to Restart US Aid to Palestinian Authority -- News from Antiwar.com

Now you're going to move the goal posts and say it isnt the same amount, or somesuch bullshit.
I think you have an agenda here. Actually I know you have an agenda.

See the strings (from your link):

White House officials say that the aid will come with demands that the Palestinian Authority accept Israel’s right to exist and unconditionally accept the Road Map for peace

The Palestinian Authority is getting 192 million. What should we get for 3 billion, annually?

You still haven't answered my question.

 

[The Rabbi]

You have a fairly arrogant tone, assuming Israel should be America's bitch while not holding other countries to the same standard.

I think any country that's getting billions of dollars from us should totally be our bitch. Israel's not special. They're just the fattest little piggy at the trough.

False. Pakistan gets more money than Israel.

And your belief is absurd. Countries don't work that way, outside of the Soviet Union.

I conclude you are yet another ill-informed moron with an anti-semitic agenda to grind. Not worth even debating as all of this has been hashed out many many many times.

 

[catzmeow]

False. Pakistan gets more money than Israel.

In combined economic and military aid, Israel is #1.

And your belief is absurd. Countries don't work that way, outside of the Soviet Union.

Then we get no benefit from providing that funding, and should stop it.

 

[Qantrill]

...well controversial since it's coming from me. But just what does Israel do for the U.S.?

I'm not ant-Isreal but I am curious just why we need to risk our children's lives for Israel.

If we weren't so dependent on ME oil we wouldn't need to be concerned with Israel other than in a humanitarian way.

When the shit hits the fan and it likley will in a few weeks and Obama tells us that we will act in conjunction with out allies, we know that our kids will be the bulk of those "allies".

If you say they provide intlleigence info, I'm pretty sure that we can get that on our own.

But sticking to the question.


What doies Israel do for us?

And remember, I'm merely playing Devil's' Advocate here so don't jump all over my ass...just answer the question please.

What exactly did Kosovo, Yugoslavia, Albania, the Bosnians etal do for us? What did the South Vietnamese do for us? What did South Korea do for us?

What exactly do the weapons we send to African nations do for us?

What exactly does Afghanistan do for the U.S?

There is and always has been the human angle where we witness millions of people being murdered by the Hitlers, Stalins, Milosevics etal.

Israel was established in 1948 by the United Nations...after Hitler took it upon himself to exterminate a whole race of humanity. It was land that the Jews inhabited over 6,000 years before when they were chased out by muslims.

I believe it to be more a humanitarian effort than what Israel can do for us.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I think a better question would be why Israel should exist in the first place. It's not just about us and Israel and the larger issue should be addressed.

I can name one reason: The Holocaust. Jews have been despised and murdered by the train load all throughout history and there's no reason to expect people's attitudes toward the Jew's have changed. Heck, just look at their neighbors for confirmation of that!

After what happened to them during the Hitler years, why SHOULDN'T they have a place where they can be safe and defend themselves? The rest of the world has a moral obligation to ensure that another Holocaust doesn't happen. As the Jew's themselves say, "Never again."

For those who are unsure about the existence of Israel or question what they can do for us...a question: Would you REALLY be content to sit and watch the wholesale slaughter of Israeli's live on CNN? Make no mistake, that's exactly what would happen if we withdrew our support for the Jewish state.

True statement it is about what morally right.

Would you sacrifice your own son's or daughter's lives to be morally right? Sounds great on paper.

You've already gotten in a dig about Obama even though it was Bush who "sacrificed" more than 4000 of our sons and daughters.

Your original question has merit but leave the nasty lies about Obama out of it and maybe we can actually have a conversation.

I too question what our involvement should be and I definitely agree with President Obama that Israel and Palestine need to work toward a mutually agreeable solution.

 

[Sinjorri]

...well controversial since it's coming from me. But just what does Israel do for the U.S.?

I'm not ant-Isreal but I am curious just why we need to risk our children's lives for Israel.

If we weren't so dependent on ME oil we wouldn't need to be concerned with Israel other than in a humanitarian way.

When the shit hits the fan and it likley will in a few weeks and Obama tells us that we will act in conjunction with out allies, we know that our kids will be the bulk of those "allies".

If you say they provide intlleigence info, I'm pretty sure that we can get that on our own.

But sticking to the question.


What doies Israel do for us?

And remember, I'm merely playing Devil's' Advocate here so don't jump all over my ass...just answer the question please.

we need their spy network, and their ability to fight urban warfare and lets face it, no one has taken them out yet despite outnumbering them.


tech, intelligence, among other things. its more of a question of keeping an ally after things get bad than compared to right now. lets face it, trust is another matter, could we raelly trust any other ME country out there?

 

[catzmeow]

What exactly did Kosovo, Yugoslavia, Albania, the Bosnians etal do for us? What did the South Vietnamese do for us? What did South Korea do for us?

What exactly do the weapons we send to African nations do for us?

What exactly does Afghanistan do for the U.S?

There is and always has been the human angle where we witness millions of people being murdered by the Hitlers, Stalins, Milosevics etal.

Israel was established in 1948 by the United Nations...after Hitler took it upon himself to exterminate a whole race of humanity. It was land that the Jews inhabited over 6,000 years before when they were chased out by muslims.

I believe it to be more a humanitarian effort than what Israel can do for us.

You're starting to make me believe we should eliminate foreign aid entirely.

 

[beretta304]

What exactly did Kosovo, Yugoslavia, Albania, the Bosnians etal do for us? What did the South Vietnamese do for us? What did South Korea do for us?

What exactly do the weapons we send to African nations do for us?

What exactly does Afghanistan do for the U.S?

There is and always has been the human angle where we witness millions of people being murdered by the Hitlers, Stalins, Milosevics etal.

Israel was established in 1948 by the United Nations...after Hitler took it upon himself to exterminate a whole race of humanity. It was land that the Jews inhabited over 6,000 years before when they were chased out by muslims.

I believe it to be more a humanitarian effort than what Israel can do for us.

You're starting to make me believe we should eliminate foreign aid entirely.

Maybe not entirely but perhaps not such a bad idea.

 

[catzmeow]

What exactly did Kosovo, Yugoslavia, Albania, the Bosnians etal do for us? What did the South Vietnamese do for us? What did South Korea do for us?

What exactly do the weapons we send to African nations do for us?

What exactly does Afghanistan do for the U.S?

There is and always has been the human angle where we witness millions of people being murdered by the Hitlers, Stalins, Milosevics etal.

Israel was established in 1948 by the United Nations...after Hitler took it upon himself to exterminate a whole race of humanity. It was land that the Jews inhabited over 6,000 years before when they were chased out by muslims.

I believe it to be more a humanitarian effort than what Israel can do for us.

You're starting to make me believe we should eliminate foreign aid entirely.

Maybe not entirely but perhaps not such a bad idea.

I was looking at the hundreds of millions of dollars we are channeling to corrupt grinning African dictators, and it made me physically ill.

 

[freedombecki]

...well controversial since it's coming from me. But just what does Israel do for the U.S.?

I'm not ant-Isreal but I am curious just why we need to risk our children's lives for Israel.

If we weren't so dependent on ME oil we wouldn't need to be concerned with Israel other than in a humanitarian way.

When the shit hits the fan and it likley will in a few weeks and Obama tells us that we will act in conjunction with out allies, we know that our kids will be the bulk of those "allies".

If you say they provide intlleigence info, I'm pretty sure that we can get that on our own.

But sticking to the question.


What doies Israel do for us?

And remember, I'm merely playing Devil's' Advocate here so don't jump all over my ass...just answer the question please.

Do you recall the Revolutionary War? Do you know how it was financed?

Haym Salomon, Jewish Immigrant who fled his death sentence in England, came to the United States and used his financial skills to finance the remainder of the Revolutionary War for General George Washington. He gave all he had and helped the Congress borrow money abroad with his multiple language skills as well as his financial acumen. Haym Salomon, American Patriot

Please do not forget your friends, America.

How many Americans need to die in the middle east before that debt is considered paid, Becki? What has Israel done for us lately?

Let me be clear: I am not anti-Israel. I just think the relationship should be mutually beneficial. I see the benefits to Israel; what are the benefits to the U.S.?

Here are the benefits to Israel:

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date,
the United States has provided Israel $115 billion in bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral
aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, although in the past Israel also received
significant economic assistance. Strong congressional support for Israel has resulted in Israel
receiving benefits not available to any other countries; for example, Israel can use some U.S.
military assistance both for research and development in the United States and for military
purchases from Israeli manufacturers. In addition, all U.S. assistance earmarked for Israel is
delivered in the first 30 days of the fiscal year, while most other recipients normally receive aid in
installments. In addition to receiving U.S. State Department-administered foreign assistance,
Israel also receives funds from annual defense appropriations bills for joint U.S.-Israeli missile
defense programs.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

What has $115 billion and all of the special treatment that Israel receives given us?
p.s. The report is very interesting.

Thanks, catzmeow.

The best thing I can think of that Israel has given America lately is information. Mossad doesn't have unrealistic expectations that good things will come their way if they do nothing.

When we had 9/11, Israel was most generous to supply information and helpful to us for preventing another act of war financed by the proxy big mugwumps of the Middle East.

You want zero information on the next time we're hit.

You are an idiot and I will fight your ignorance and smugness tooth and nail, madam.

 

[Qantrill]

True statement it is about what morally right.

Would you sacrifice your own son's or daughter's lives to be morally right? Sounds great on paper.

You've already gotten in a dig about Obama even though it was Bush who "sacrificed" more than 4000 of our sons and daughters.

Your original question has merit but leave the nasty lies about Obama out of it and maybe we can actually have a conversation.

I too question what our involvement should be and I definitely agree with President Obama that Israel and Palestine need to work toward a mutually agreeable solution.

Obama has run the KIA toll up to over 2,000 in Afghanistan with little or NO notoriety by the mainstream media. But that's not the point I want to make.

Here is a small spread sheet I put together back in 2007 for another political forum to which I belonged. What it showed is a comparison of soldliers KIA in Iraq between 2002 and 2007 defending our freedom and Iraq's, COMPARED TO deaths in the United States of America caused by LEGALLY INTOXICATED DRIVERS which killed themselves, their passengers, or innocent victims in other vehicles/pedestrians . The number of the military KIA pales in comparison. But NOBODY is concerned about this. Just where their next bottle of booze is coming from.

Only the year 2007 is estimated.

 

[thanatos144]

at what point do you stop worrying so much about the USA having a ally that is full of mostly Jews? Dont any of you ever get tired of all this ignorance?

 

[catzmeow]

The best thing I can think of that Israel has given America lately is information. Mossad doesn't have unrealistic expectations that good things will come their way if they do nothing.

When we had 9/11, Israel was most generous to supply information and helpful to us for preventing another act of war financed by the proxy big mugwumps of the Middle East.

You want zero information on the next time we're hit.

You are an idiot and I will fight your ignorance and smugness tooth and nail, madam.

Did Israeli intelligence prevent 9/11? That's a lot of money for intelligence that didn't prevent the last war.

Your comments really hurt me, Becki, coming from a brain trust like you.

 

[catzmeow]

Would you sacrifice your own son's or daughter's lives to be morally right? Sounds great on paper.

You've already gotten in a dig about Obama even though it was Bush who "sacrificed" more than 4000 of our sons and daughters.

Your original question has merit but leave the nasty lies about Obama out of it and maybe we can actually have a conversation.

I too question what our involvement should be and I definitely agree with President Obama that Israel and Palestine need to work toward a mutually agreeable solution.

Obama has run the KIA toll up to over 2,000 in Afghanistan with little or NO notoriety by the mainstream media. But that's not the point I want to make.

Here is a small spread sheet I put together back in 2007 for another political forum to which I belonged. What it showed is a comparison of soldliers KIA in Iraq between 2002 and 2007 defending our freedom and Iraq's, COMPARED TO deaths in the United States of America caused by LEGALLY INTOXICATED DRIVERS which killed themselves, their passengers, or innocent victims in other vehicles/pedestrians . The number of the military KIA pales in comparison. But NOBODY is concerned about this. Just when their next bottle of booze is coming from.

Only the year 2007 is estimated.

It's a shame you didn't add a column for the victims of 9/11. Imagine how many other deaths we could have prevented with $1 trillion.