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this would be true if people chose to participate in the health care market. since people do no choose to get sick, get injured or develop illness, the argument does not hold water for any other industry.i dont see how any of your examples affect the personal health and well being on society as a whole. give me an example from an industry that can provide life or death services such as health care and we can have a discussion.A diversion from the point.
Government mandating a company sell something that goes against its morals...
But OK....ill bite anyway....
Right now, New Jersey has a bear population issue. Bears are starting to invade communities. Sure...I know..and I agree...it is our fault....we are taking their space AND their food away from them. But it is still a dangerous situation for the residents..the kids in particular.
So 20 years from now, the problem becomes so bad that children are being attacked while playing in the school yard.
The only solution is population control....extended hunting seasons for bear. But there just arent enough hunters becuase there is so little hunting advertisisng and such a small interest in hunting....and few stores sell the equipment.
Would you applaud a NJ law saying that all camping stores must sell hunting equipment even if the store owner is against hunting?
Sure...far fetched....but the point is, we can always come up with a good reason to mandate somneone sell something.
How about this....
NY State is broke. So they are pushing the lottery. But the lines for tickets get long when the pot is big and many dont want to deal with the lines.
So is it OK for the NYS government to mandate that ALL retial stores sell lottery tickets?
your bear example may be close but youre actually advocating actually killing something, instead of solving the overall problem.
again, a diversion.
I dont hunt. I am against hunting. It was an example...
I am confused......if most offer contraception and a few dont, how will that affect health and well being on society?
Have we had a problem BEFORE the proposed madate? Has health and death been a problem becuase of lack of contraceptives?
There is no problem. There never was. Most offer it. Some dont.
All a mandate would do is give government control over what someone has to sell...even though it was never an issue to begin with.
It is not going to solve a probnlem we dont even have. Heck...even most oin the left are saying that the insurance cvompanies ALREADY cover it....cool...that is their choice......
It is an intrusion on capitalism for absolutely no reason.
So now the healthcare law has TWO madates.
For the first time in US history, a person is being told they MUST purchase something
and for the first time an industry is beihg told they MUST offer something.
Those are two big FIRSTS...and the door is getting wider.
Cant you see my point?
can you find any other industry in the world that can have a direct effect on whether you live or die?
i find it much more interesting that the religious right pushes for abortion to become illegal, because life is sacred, while at the same time opposing universal health care.
its extremely hypocritical to say life is sacred when your willing to fight to protect an unborn life, but not willing to fight to protect people who have already been born.
when you force women to have children they may not want, in many cases they become dependent on the state for services such as medicaid, food stamp, welfare, the foster system, etc etc.
They aren't pro life... they're pro birth.
if they weren't, they'd be arranging adoptions for unwanted children.
if they weren't, they'd be supporting day care and job training and education for unwed mothers
if they weren't, they'd support WIC and head start.
but they are....
because it isn't about "life", it's about punishing the harlots and making women incubators.
which is why something like 80% of anti-choice activists are men.
The Catholic Church is hugely involved in adoption services. It also funds programs such as day care for single parents (of either gender)..... we also provide school places, for kids from all faiths, and no faith.... Don't let the facts get in the way, though.
The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.
Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?
Where is the morality when disease is spread?
Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?
The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.
Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?
Where is the morality when disease is spread?
Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?
this would be true if people chose to participate in the health care market. since people do no choose to get sick, get injured or develop illness, the argument does not hold water for any other industry.i dont see how any of your examples affect the personal health and well being on society as a whole. give me an example from an industry that can provide life or death services such as health care and we can have a discussion.
your bear example may be close but youre actually advocating actually killing something, instead of solving the overall problem.
again, a diversion.
I dont hunt. I am against hunting. It was an example...
I am confused......if most offer contraception and a few dont, how will that affect health and well being on society?
Have we had a problem BEFORE the proposed madate? Has health and death been a problem becuase of lack of contraceptives?
There is no problem. There never was. Most offer it. Some dont.
All a mandate would do is give government control over what someone has to sell...even though it was never an issue to begin with.
It is not going to solve a probnlem we dont even have. Heck...even most oin the left are saying that the insurance cvompanies ALREADY cover it....cool...that is their choice......
It is an intrusion on capitalism for absolutely no reason.
So now the healthcare law has TWO madates.
For the first time in US history, a person is being told they MUST purchase something
and for the first time an industry is beihg told they MUST offer something.
Those are two big FIRSTS...and the door is getting wider.
Cant you see my point?
can you find any other industry in the world that can have a direct effect on whether you live or die?
does one choose to participate in the tobacco market? yescan you find any other industry in the world that can have a direct effect on whether you live or die?
Tobacco
does one choose to participate in the health care market? no
does one choose to participate in the tobacco market? yescan you find any other industry in the world that can have a direct effect on whether you live or die?
Tobacco
does one choose to participate in the health care market? no
you basically just described a segment of the health care market, so thanks for helping.this would be true if people chose to participate in the health care market. since people do no choose to get sick, get injured or develop illness, the argument does not hold water for any other industry.again, a diversion.
I dont hunt. I am against hunting. It was an example...
I am confused......if most offer contraception and a few dont, how will that affect health and well being on society?
Have we had a problem BEFORE the proposed madate? Has health and death been a problem becuase of lack of contraceptives?
There is no problem. There never was. Most offer it. Some dont.
All a mandate would do is give government control over what someone has to sell...even though it was never an issue to begin with.
It is not going to solve a probnlem we dont even have. Heck...even most oin the left are saying that the insurance cvompanies ALREADY cover it....cool...that is their choice......
It is an intrusion on capitalism for absolutely no reason.
So now the healthcare law has TWO madates.
For the first time in US history, a person is being told they MUST purchase something
and for the first time an industry is beihg told they MUST offer something.
Those are two big FIRSTS...and the door is getting wider.
Cant you see my point?
can you find any other industry in the world that can have a direct effect on whether you live or die?
Sure..
Health care providers.
My doctor stopped taking new patients on about 5 years ago. His practice was booming. I had a neighbor move in about 5 yerars ago and I suggested he meet with my doctor (he was from San Francisco)...and that was when my doctor told him he is not taking on new patients. Not retiring...just didnt want to exapnd his practice and he didnt have the time for new patients.
My neighboir finally found a doctor who was about 20 minutes away.
Should the government mandate that doctors can NEVER turn away new patients?
Better yet...should the government mandate that doctors MUST have someone IN THE OFFICE 24 hours a day, 7 days a week so people dont have to deal with the ER where people have been known to die while waiting for treatment?
simply pointing out that the industry are not similar at all.does one choose to participate in the tobacco market? yesTobacco
does one choose to participate in the health care market? no
Now don't get all snippy. You asked someone to name an industry that can have a direct effect on whether you lived or died and I gave you an answer. Jeez
i find it much more interesting that the religious right pushes for abortion to become illegal, because life is sacred, while at the same time opposing universal health care.The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.
Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?
Where is the morality when disease is spread?
Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?
its extremely hypocritical to say life is sacred when your willing to fight to protect an unborn life, but not willing to fight to protect people who have already been born.
when you force women to have children they may not want, in many cases they become dependent on the state for services such as medicaid, food stamp, welfare, the foster system, etc etc.
They aren't pro life... they're pro birth.
if they weren't, they'd be arranging adoptions for unwanted children.
if they weren't, they'd be supporting day care and job training and education for unwed mothers
if they weren't, they'd support WIC and head start.
but they are....
because it isn't about "life", it's about punishing the harlots and making women incubators.
which is why something like 80% of anti-choice activists are men.
The Catholic Church is hugely involved in adoption services. It also funds programs such as day care for single parents (of either gender)..... we also provide school places, for kids from all faiths, and no faith.... Don't let the facts get in the way, though.
Calgirl sadly this thread is another instance of even if you sign your entire check and give every waking moment of your day to charity, it's not good enough unless it's mandated by gov't.
Common sense loses another battle.
1) a private practice is not a hospital, hospitals can not turn away patients
simply pointing out that the industry are not similar at all.does one choose to participate in the tobacco market? yes
does one choose to participate in the health care market? no
Now don't get all snippy. You asked someone to name an industry that can have a direct effect on whether you lived or died and I gave you an answer. Jeez
riiiiggghhttt, because one question can not lead to another....simply pointing out that the industry are not similar at all.Now don't get all snippy. You asked someone to name an industry that can have a direct effect on whether you lived or died and I gave you an answer. Jeez
Well then I guess you should have asked a different question, huh?
The Catholic Church is hugely involved in adoption services. It also funds programs such as day care for single parents (of either gender)..... we also provide school places, for kids from all faiths, and no faith.... Don't let the facts get in the way, though.
Calgirl sadly this thread is another instance of even if you sign your entire check and give every waking moment of your day to charity, it's not good enough unless it's mandated by gov't.
Common sense loses another battle.
Your use of hyperbole doesn't strike me as an example of common sense. Frankly, it's childish.
i find it much more interesting that the religious right pushes for abortion to become illegal, because life is sacred, while at the same time opposing universal health care.The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.
Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?
Where is the morality when disease is spread?
Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?
its extremely hypocritical to say life is sacred when your willing to fight to protect an unborn life, but not willing to fight to protect people who have already been born.
when you force women to have children they may not want, in many cases they become dependent on the state for services such as medicaid, food stamp, welfare, the foster system, etc etc.
what is wrong with a system where everyone pays the same and everyone gets access to the same services? (i.e. single payer)i find it much more interesting that the religious right pushes for abortion to become illegal, because life is sacred, while at the same time opposing universal health care.The Catholic Church is opposed to contraception for moral reasons.
Where is the morality in creating a life when food and clean water are rare commodities? Where poverty exists and educational opportunities are non existent?
Where is the morality when disease is spread?
Where is the morality when a women is the victim of domestic violence? When a women is forced to conceive and then trapped as the child become a lever to gain more power and more control?
its extremely hypocritical to say life is sacred when your willing to fight to protect an unborn life, but not willing to fight to protect people who have already been born.
when you force women to have children they may not want, in many cases they become dependent on the state for services such as medicaid, food stamp, welfare, the foster system, etc etc.
Actually, It is how this Universal Health care is implemented.
The method this adminstration is using is more of a corporatists venture in which the citizen is forced to buy insurance.
The preferred method for a universal health care is more of a socialistic venture in which everyone contributes to a fund to pay for the health care.
Both methods have draw backs, the corporatist approach still institutes the insurance companies which will seek to turn a profit by short changing the policy--also, by forcing demand, the insurance companies can raise their rates to ensure more profit for their companies. There is little reason not to do this since the competitive spirit of the free market is being challenged by the lack of choice including not buying . The socialistic approach is still faced with rising costs in comparison to standard of living and the inefficiency of government. Pluss extra.
