CNN Arizona debate thread

[Avatar4321]

I think this has been a very great discussion. All of the candidates are having good points.

LOL, you think?

Yes. Very often. I'd recommend you doing the same sometime

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Newt says Obama is pro abortion because he voted as state senator to protect doctors who perform abortions. Newt forgets he once supported "exceptions" to his anti abortion stance. How is the manner of conception relevant if one is pro life?

What he was talking about was abortion doctors killing babies that survived the actual abortion.

Newt's lying again, Illinois already had a law regarding a viable fetus; the laws Obama voted against concerned NON viable fetuses:
************************************

When Obama was a state senator, abortion opponents proposed "born alive" legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003. The proposals’ intent was to require doctors to provide immediate life-saving care to any infant that survived an intended abortion. The legislation, which included multiple bills, specified that an infant surviving a planned abortion is "born alive" and "shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law."

The bills' supporters said it gave added emphasis to laws already on the books, deterring the death of abortion survivors from neglect. (One of the bills' strongest supporters was a nurse who said she had witnessed infants left to die in dirty utility rooms.) Abortion-rights proponents, on the other hand, said the legislation was a back-door attempt to stop legal abortions.

Illinois already had a law on its books from 1975 that said if a doctor suspected an abortion was scheduled for a viable fetus — meaning able to survive outside of the mother's body — then the child must receive medical care if it survives the abortion. The new laws didn't distinguish between viable and nonviable, meaning that an infant of any age that survived an abortion should receive care.
late term

This is already well known and you are wrong. Obama voted in favor of infanticide

 

[Salt Jones]

Gee, more union bashing by the GOP. Why do they hate working people?

Why do you try to claim that Unions are working people when every American needs to work to live and yet few if any are in unions?

Yet Boeing is booming on that union labor.

 

[Avatar4321]

Gee, more union bashing by the GOP. Why do they hate working people?

Why do you try to claim that Unions are working people when every American needs to work to live and yet few if any are in unions?

Yet Boeing is booming on that union labor.

Nothing you have said challenges or answers my questions.

 

[ladyliberal]

Gingrich is vastly overstating the current level of danger and warfare.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Gee, more union bashing by the GOP. Why do they hate working people?

Why do you try to claim that Unions are working people when every American needs to work to live and yet few if any are in unions?

Yet Boeing is booming on that union labor.

Yeah, that's why they built a plant in South Carolina...

 

[Liability]

Ron Paul is babbling his pacifist schtick.

He is truly not able to articulate his own basic premises. I doubt he could define his own terms.

 

[Avatar4321]

Gingrich is vastly overstating the current level of danger and warfare.

Stated it quite precisely actually.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Here we go with preemptive war...

 

[Peach]

Santorum breaking from the pack by choosing a noun rather than an adjective to describe himself.

Yes, and an odd one from a guy who didn't serve. Newt's CHEERFUL may take the cake however. Romney & Paul are the best thus far.

 

[California Girl]

Gingrich is vastly overstating the current level of danger and warfare.

You tell yourself that if it helps.

 

[Liability]

Gingrich's response to the question about the threat posed by Iran and the hypothetical Israeli desire to pre-emptively take out the Iranian nuclear capacity is very articulate.

 

[Salt Jones]

Gee, more union bashing by the GOP. Why do they hate working people?

Because nobody working on an assembly line is worth $71 an hour in wages and bennies.

I make more than that inspecting commercial airliners. Ask Southwest or Hawaiian Air if they wished they had paid for guys like me beforehand.

 

[ladyliberal]

Because many debts are completely wiped clean and the ones that are reaafirmed are renegotiated to fit the companies new business model post bankruptcy. Many times settled for 50% or less.

Why do you think the bailouts didn't rescue the companies? If they had the subsequent bankruptcies wouldn't have been necessary.

What would be the business model of a company continuing after bankruptcy with negligible assets and large debts? It seems to me that by far the most profit-maximizing plan would be to end the existence of the company.

I don't understand your question, so I'm not sure if I can even grant the premise, much less address it. What bailouts and what companies, and how are you inferring what I think about them?

The auto bailout.

It didn't save gm. It saved the union.

The bankruptcy saved gm.


Apparently this is too complicated for most liberals to understand.

Obama DID NOT SAVE GM. THE BANKRUPTCY JUDGE THAT FORGAVE AND RESTRUCTURED THEIR DEBT DID.

Got it now? All Obama did was line the pockets of the unions.

I now understand your question to be:

"Why didn't the bailouts rescue the companies [GM and Chrysler]? The bailouts didn't rescue the companies, as evidenced by the subsequent bankruptcies."

I don't grant the premise of your question. I think that if the administrations hadn't acted as they did there would have been a large chance that GM or Chrysler would not exist today. If indeed they were in jeopardy then, and aren't now, I would say that "rescue" is an appropriate way to describe the government actions. As you've pointed out, entering bankruptcy doesn't end a company's existence, so I don't see why GM's bankruptcy or Chrysler's means they weren't rescued from corporate death, although it certainly wasn't rescued from bankruptcy.

Your assertion that all Obama's actions (and Bush's, I suppose?) regarding the auto industry did was divert money to unions is disputed by pretty much everyone, including elected Republicans.

 

[Avatar4321]

Haha Love Santorum's comment about Joe Biden "If you want to know what foreign policy to support, look to Joe Biden and choose the exact opposite"

 

[GuyPinestra]

Gee, more union bashing by the GOP. Why do they hate working people?

Because nobody working on an assembly line is worth $71 an hour in wages and bennies.

I make more than that inspecting commercial airliners. Ask Southwest or Hawaiian Air if they wished they had paid for guys like me beforehand.

You mean the inspectors they had that obviously didn't do their jobs?

 

[Peach]

What he was talking about was abortion doctors killing babies that survived the actual abortion.

Newt's lying again, Illinois already had a law regarding a viable fetus; the laws Obama voted against concerned NON viable fetuses:
************************************

When Obama was a state senator, abortion opponents proposed "born alive" legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003. The proposals’ intent was to require doctors to provide immediate life-saving care to any infant that survived an intended abortion. The legislation, which included multiple bills, specified that an infant surviving a planned abortion is "born alive" and "shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law."

The bills' supporters said it gave added emphasis to laws already on the books, deterring the death of abortion survivors from neglect. (One of the bills' strongest supporters was a nurse who said she had witnessed infants left to die in dirty utility rooms.) Abortion-rights proponents, on the other hand, said the legislation was a back-door attempt to stop legal abortions.

Illinois already had a law on its books from 1975 that said if a doctor suspected an abortion was scheduled for a viable fetus — meaning able to survive outside of the mother's body — then the child must receive medical care if it survives the abortion. The new laws didn't distinguish between viable and nonviable, meaning that an infant of any age that survived an abortion should receive care.
late term

This is already well known and you are wrong. Obama voted in favor of infanticide

No, the following is from Tampa Bay Fact Check, and Obama voted PRESENT on all three bills:
*************************************************************

We researched Obama’s position on "born alive" legislation extensively during the presidential campaign. Obama favors abortion rights generally, and he opposed the state version of Illinois’ "born alive" measure as a state senator. But he never said that premature children, even those who survived an abortion, could be killed.

 

[California Girl]

There ya go.... Ron Paul..... dangerous man. Absolutely dangerously naive in his views on foreign relations.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Ron Paul just blown it out of the fucking Park about Iran. Why the fuck go to war for something that isn't in our interest?

 

[Liability]

RuPaul cannot figure out that we talked to the Soviets BECAUSE we knew they were not insane and didn't want to DIE but the Islamofucks don't care. They put bomb vets on their own children in the name of Allah.

Jesus. RuPaul is a dumbass.