Church goers must take their firearms with them to Church

And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------


Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And yet with increased carry we see increased violent crime. Seems guns do way more damage than good.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year


.....do you ever get tired of being a troll....

Up to 2015....when the Ferguson Effect began, our gun crime rate our gun murder rate and our gun violence rate were going down.....so obama and the left needed to attack the policer to get the rates up, so they could push gun control....and since 3 cities are driving the increase, Chicago, Baltimore and D.C.......and they have all the gun control you want....you have no point...

up to 2015...the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

And then Ferguson happened....because of obama, the left and democrats....

Hard Data, Hollow Protests



The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.


Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

 
Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?
Most of the red areas of the country have firearm ownership where there many, many times the firearms as compared to people… Lower violent crime.
But that's a reach to causation, when every Cletus owns 4 guns.


No genius...there are studies that show causation....

We don't even have to go there to defeat the core belief of you anti gunners.

That core belief is that more guns = more crime.....and up until the Ferguson Effect in 2015....that wasn't true...and still isn't true since the uptick in crime is only happening in a few big cities....

Your belief that more guns = more crime is simply wrong....absolutely wrong...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
 
No genius...there are studies that show causation....

We don't even have to go there to defeat the core belief of you anti gunners.

That core belief is that more guns = more crime.....and up until the Ferguson Effect in 2015....that wasn't true...and still isn't true since the uptick in crime is only happening in a few big cities....

Your belief that more guns = more crime is simply wrong....absolutely wrong...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Your posts are so good and informative, I just realized I reflexively give you a 'winner' rating before I have even read it, as I have been so well conditioned to do so.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?
Most of the red areas of the country have firearm ownership where there many, many times the firearms as compared to people… Lower violent crime.
But that's a reach to causation, when every Cletus owns 4 guns.


No genius...there are studies that show causation....

We don't even have to go there to defeat the core belief of you anti gunners.

That core belief is that more guns = more crime.....and up until the Ferguson Effect in 2015....that wasn't true...and still isn't true since the uptick in crime is only happening in a few big cities....

Your belief that more guns = more crime is simply wrong....absolutely wrong...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
...and firearm ownership is none of the federal governments business
 
No genius...there are studies that show causation....

We don't even have to go there to defeat the core belief of you anti gunners.

That core belief is that more guns = more crime.....and up until the Ferguson Effect in 2015....that wasn't true...and still isn't true since the uptick in crime is only happening in a few big cities....

Your belief that more guns = more crime is simply wrong....absolutely wrong...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Your posts are so good and informative, I just realized I reflexively give you a 'winner' rating before I have even read it, as I have been so well conditioned to do so.

You should be ashamed of yourself.


Thank you. If there is any of this information that you want to use, please do. I post it so that anti-gunners are shown to be morons....but also, so other supporters of our Rights can use it if they find it useful....
 
Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.
 
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.


They have no gun stores, they have no gun ranges.....and yes...they have extreme gun control in the city...which is why they have gangs running wild.
 
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.


They have no gun stores, they have no gun ranges.....and yes...they have extreme gun control in the city...which is why they have gangs running wild.

I don't know where you get that info from. I googled "chicago gun shops" and a bunch of them popped up including gun ranges. In fact I think there was also a court case that determined cities couldn't ban gun shops? And...as I pointed out - their gun control laws are in line with other cities and also, in most cases superceded by state laws..

Chicago ranks #9 for most violent cities in once source I found. It ranks #25 for murder rates according to this source.
St. Louis, MO; Baltimore, MD; Detroit, MI; New Orleans, LA; Birmingham, AL are the Top 5 highest.

How do their gun control laws compare? Louisiana and Missouri are among the 5 least restrictive states in regards to gun laws.

Maybe it's time to let the Chicago myth go...
 
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.


They have no gun stores, they have no gun ranges.....and yes...they have extreme gun control in the city...which is why they have gangs running wild.

I don't know where you get that info from. I googled "chicago gun shops" and a bunch of them popped up including gun ranges. In fact I think there was also a court case that determined cities couldn't ban gun shops? And...as I pointed out - their gun control laws are in line with other cities and also, in most cases superceded by state laws..

Chicago ranks #9 for most violent cities in once source I found. It ranks #25 for murder rates according to this source.
St. Louis, MO; Baltimore, MD; Detroit, MI; New Orleans, LA; Birmingham, AL are the Top 5 highest.

How do their gun control laws compare? Louisiana and Missouri are among the 5 least restrictive states in regards to gun laws.

Maybe it's time to let the Chicago myth go...


The gun shops are in the county, not the city......the democrats are still fighting that court decision.

Baltimore is the strictest...they have every gun control law you guys want....the one thing they have in common...democrat mayors....attacking police.....those are the real problems...not law abiding people carrying guns.
 
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.


They have no gun stores, they have no gun ranges.....and yes...they have extreme gun control in the city...which is why they have gangs running wild.

I don't know where you get that info from. I googled "chicago gun shops" and a bunch of them popped up including gun ranges. In fact I think there was also a court case that determined cities couldn't ban gun shops? And...as I pointed out - their gun control laws are in line with other cities and also, in most cases superceded by state laws..

Chicago ranks #9 for most violent cities in once source I found. It ranks #25 for murder rates according to this source.
St. Louis, MO; Baltimore, MD; Detroit, MI; New Orleans, LA; Birmingham, AL are the Top 5 highest.

How do their gun control laws compare? Louisiana and Missouri are among the 5 least restrictive states in regards to gun laws.

Maybe it's time to let the Chicago myth go...


Chicago needs to ease the rules on gun ranges


The city grudgingly allowed them, but only in manufacturing districts, with a special-use permit, and least 500 feet from any residential area, school, library, church, liquor store or day care center, among other sites. The restrictions, not by accident, put nearly 98 percent of the acreage in Chicago off-limits.

The practical figure is 100 percent: Not a single commercial gun range has opened.

It was no big surprise when the 7th Circuit found this ordinance overly burdensome. But the City Council remains in no hurry to submit to the reality of Second Amendment rights. Recently, it put off a vote on a proposed measure designed to comply with the court ruling — a measure that would allow ranges in business, commercial and industrial areas with a special-use permit and drop the distance requirements. Some aldermen are opposed, with Ald. Michele Smith, 43rd, charging that the federal court of appeals is "completely out of touch with the needs of cities (and) the protection of our children."
 
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.


They have no gun stores, they have no gun ranges.....and yes...they have extreme gun control in the city...which is why they have gangs running wild.

I don't know where you get that info from. I googled "chicago gun shops" and a bunch of them popped up including gun ranges. In fact I think there was also a court case that determined cities couldn't ban gun shops? And...as I pointed out - their gun control laws are in line with other cities and also, in most cases superceded by state laws..

Chicago ranks #9 for most violent cities in once source I found. It ranks #25 for murder rates according to this source.
St. Louis, MO; Baltimore, MD; Detroit, MI; New Orleans, LA; Birmingham, AL are the Top 5 highest.

How do their gun control laws compare? Louisiana and Missouri are among the 5 least restrictive states in regards to gun laws.

Maybe it's time to let the Chicago myth go...


Yeah...here you go...

Chicago to get its first gun store

Despite a number of recent court cases invalidating the city's strict gun control laws, Chicago still has no gun store or range within the city limits. One man has a plan to change that.

Though Chicago eliminated its ban on gun stores in 2014, the strict restrictions they placed on where one could be located has deterred development up to this point. Christopher O'Connor has developed a plan to build both a gun store and range in the city's River West section.

"I'm sure I'm not the only person working on [opening a gun store] right now, but I think I'm the furthest along," he told DNAinfo Chicago. "It is a matter of when, not if, this happens."

O'Connor said his goal was to give residents a place to exercise their gun rights. "Right now, there's nowhere to do this in the city," he said. "There's a definite need for this. The people of Chicago have a right to exercise their Second Amendment rights."

The plan has received tepid support from local officials.

"So long as residents don't have a problem with it, I don't think it's a big deal," Alderman Walter Burnett Jr. told DNAinfo. "Everyone I run into now has a conceal carry permit. You don't want a bunch of folks to have guns and not know what they're doing with them."

O'Connor's store will be different from traditional gun stores and more "like an Apple store." Gun shops "are no longer a dank, dark, smelly spots with shelves and shelves of guns," O'Connor told the paper. "This will be an accessible store. The goal is to find the right gun for you."

The plan calls for O'Connor to spend $2 million renovating the property he plans to use and sets the end of 2016 as its goal for the shop's opening.

And then this.....

River West Gun Shop Plan Shot Down by Alderman

Last week Burnett said he would support the gun range if residents were OK with it, since legal gun owners need a safe place to properly learn how to shoot and handle a gun. Reached this week, Burnett clarified that he was unaware O'Connor's proposal also included a gun shop.

On Tuesday, Burnett said there was "no way" he would support a gun shop in his ward.

"When [O'Connor] came to see me, I told him that he would have to get the support the community [to open the range]. I don't recall him ever talking about selling guns," Burnett said. "If that trend is going to start, it's not going to be in my ward. I don't feel comfortable with that."

O'Connor said that a gun range cannot survive without the revenue generated from gun sales.

"The gun shop and range go hand in hand," he said. "The sales from each side support the other. While the range is fine for people who already possess guns, you can't bring in new customers. ... To be a successful business it needs all the parts."

Last week, Burnett said that he would schedule a community meeting on the proposed gun range if River West and West Loop groups supported the project. He said Tuesday that he did not know O'Connor planned to sell guns at the gun range.

 
the qur'an (how many ways can we spell 1 book?) is much like the bible. all versions of the bible even. subject to interpretation. if it were not we'd only have 1 religion and everyone would just point to it and go "it's right there man" and any doubters would go "oh, yea....thanks!" and we'd all live in peace. :)
While the Quran has a similar style of narrative to much of the Bible,they are not really similar at all.

The Bible is a collection of books and personal letters collected over 1500 years by religious leaders in Israel. The Quran was written by one man in a short span of his life.

The Bible has books of poetry, legal text, highly symbolic prophetic text and geneologies to name a just a few of its literary styles. The Quran is written as declarative text from start to finish.

The system of hermeneutics for the Bible and the Quran are very different also as a result.

Have you ever actually did any study of the two books at all?

um...my point was that both are subject to interpretation. not going to get into the rest but yes. i have.

Every document of any significance is "subject to interpretation"
 
And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.
Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!

Actually...no.

Chicago does not have the strictest gun control laws. Their once strict gun control laws have been considerably watered down and are in line with those of other cities, since the Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban handguns in 2010 I believe.

Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. In fact, it's not even in the top 5.


They have no gun stores, they have no gun ranges.....and yes...they have extreme gun control in the city...which is why they have gangs running wild.

I don't know where you get that info from. I googled "chicago gun shops" and a bunch of them popped up including gun ranges. In fact I think there was also a court case that determined cities couldn't ban gun shops? And...as I pointed out - their gun control laws are in line with other cities and also, in most cases superceded by state laws..

Chicago ranks #9 for most violent cities in once source I found. It ranks #25 for murder rates according to this source.
St. Louis, MO; Baltimore, MD; Detroit, MI; New Orleans, LA; Birmingham, AL are the Top 5 highest.

How do their gun control laws compare? Louisiana and Missouri are among the 5 least restrictive states in regards to gun laws.

Maybe it's time to let the Chicago myth go...


The gun shops are in the county, not the city......the democrats are still fighting that court decision.

Baltimore is the strictest...they have every gun control law you guys want....the one thing they have in common...democrat mayors....attacking police.....those are the real problems...not law abiding people carrying guns.

Yet Louisiana and Missouri, with it's lack gun control laws, has extremely high homicide rates and Chicago, isn't falls much lower. So why are people making the claims that Chicago is the most strict and has the highest murder rate? It's false.
 
the qur'an (how many ways can we spell 1 book?) is much like the bible. all versions of the bible even. subject to interpretation. if it were not we'd only have 1 religion and everyone would just point to it and go "it's right there man" and any doubters would go "oh, yea....thanks!" and we'd all live in peace. :)
While the Quran has a similar style of narrative to much of the Bible,they are not really similar at all.

The Bible is a collection of books and personal letters collected over 1500 years by religious leaders in Israel. The Quran was written by one man in a short span of his life.

The Bible has books of poetry, legal text, highly symbolic prophetic text and geneologies to name a just a few of its literary styles. The Quran is written as declarative text from start to finish.

The system of hermeneutics for the Bible and the Quran are very different also as a result.

Have you ever actually did any study of the two books at all?


Actually...though the Quran itself is very short, but there is a wealth of accompanying material in the Hadiths. I think it's kind of like the OT and the Talmud maybe? The Quran was actually compiled by his followers after Mohammed's death.
 
Actually...though the Quran itself is very short, but there is a wealth of accompanying material in the Hadiths. I think it's kind of like the OT and the Talmud maybe?

Yeah, that is a good comparison.

The Quran was actually compiled by his followers after Mohammed's death.

I know the Hadith was, but I dont think the Quran was compiled so much as various versions purged of questionable content like the so-called Satanic Verses.
 
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.

Utah? Utah doesn't have a major city.
 
And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------


Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And yet with increased carry we see increased violent crime. Seems guns do way more damage than good.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

And as I have pointed out to you multiple times that increase is very small and insignificant in comparison to the decline in violent crime over the past 20 years.

Long term trends have far more value than small yearly fluctuations

Yes the decline which followed the Bill Clinton crime bill.
 
And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------


Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And yet with increased carry we see increased violent crime. Seems guns do way more damage than good.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year


.....do you ever get tired of being a troll....

Up to 2015....when the Ferguson Effect began, our gun crime rate our gun murder rate and our gun violence rate were going down.....so obama and the left needed to attack the policer to get the rates up, so they could push gun control....and since 3 cities are driving the increase, Chicago, Baltimore and D.C.......and they have all the gun control you want....you have no point...

up to 2015...the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

And then Ferguson happened....because of obama, the left and democrats....

Hard Data, Hollow Protests



The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

And we had ferguson because our police shoot more people than anywhere else in the world. And they do that because we have too many guns. So too many guns increased violent crime.
 
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.

The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981–2010
The correlation of gun ownership with firearm homicide rates was substantial. Results from our model showed that a 1-SD difference in the gun ownership proxy measure, FS/S, was associated with a 12.9% difference in firearm homicide rates. All other factors being equal, our model would predict that if the FS/S in Mississippi were 57.7% (the average for all states) instead of 76.8% (the highest of all states), its firearm homicide rate would be 17% lower.
 
well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...
So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.
<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.

Link Between Gun Ownership Rates and Murders of Women | SPH | Boston University
The study found that for every 10 percentage point increase in state-level gun ownership, the female gun-related homicide rate increased by 10.2 percent. That suggests, the authors said, that if the proportion of gun ownership in Wyoming was to fall from 73 percent (the average level between 1981 and 2013) to 40 percent, its female homicide rate could be predicted to drop by about 33 percent.
 

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