Church goers must take their firearms with them to Church

[Brain357]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact

Countries with gun control don't have cops dying every week. They have a soul.

You mean other than Mexico? They have extreme gun control there....one gun store in the whole country, doofus, and the military runs it.....moron.

Yes what a stable country. So an extremely corrupt country is all you have?

 

[Brain357]

Crime sure went down after that crime bill. FACT.

It went down as more Americans owned and carried guns...fact.

Violent crime rates up for 2nd consecutive year

And the real reason...

Hard Data, Hollow Protests



The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.

We had ferguson because the police shoot lots of people. Way more than any other country. They are themselves shot way more than any other country. This is happening because we have too many guns.

The police do not shoot a lot of people.....they shoot criminals, then the left wing journalists lie about them.....

Yes they do. Far more than any other country.

Some criminals, some not.
Australian woman shot by cop 'did not have to die,' Minneapolis police chief says

 

[Brain357]

And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And yet with increased carry we see increased violent crime. Seems guns do way more damage than good.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact

well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...

So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.

<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

Most of the red areas of the country have firearm ownership where there many, many times the firearms as compared to people… Lower violent crime.

But that's a reach to causation, when every Cletus owns 4 guns.

 

[JimBowie1958]

He took the cowards way out. He lived as one, acted as one, and died like one. It's quite clear he was black.

The sort you see on the local crime report in just about every city in America day in and day out, week after week, month after month, year after and yet they and the media want us to believe in black victimhood, black lives matter and other leftwing myths that do nothing but further their fallacious agenda.

Every time I see people post shit like that, I think of how all my black neighbors are great solid middle class law abiding Americans.

I also reflect on the fact that every time in my life I have been victimized by a crime it was a white person that did it, and the odds are if I ever have to use a gun to defend myself I will have to shoot a white person, not a black.

Get real you two.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Dylann Roof - Wikipedia

what's his excuse?

You mean like him being a Democrat?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Here's the thing with this guy though...we don't have a motive. What we do know is WAS a devout Christian. Until he snapped. Does he suddenly become not a Christian?

Culturally, ethnically or morally?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Not really. Like Christianity, Islam contradicts itself. It's also full of explicit rules on when and under what conditions violence and has multiple passages condemning the killing of innocents. The rules are more complicated then the OT.

Interpretation of the Quran is based on the datings of the Surahs of the Quran. The latest prioritized over the earlier ones.

Abrogation in the Qur’an, and the order of its soorahs and verses - islamqa.info

Naskh (abrogation) means moving; thus the meaning of abrogation is moving those who are accountable from one prescribed ruling to another, or waiving the ruling. The Jews used to condemn abrogation and claim that it was not permissible, even though it was referred to in the Torah; thus their rejection of it constituted disbelief and was based on pure whims and desires.

Allah, may He be exalted, has told us of His wisdom in abrogation, and that whenever He abrogates any verse “or cause [it] to be forgotten” i.e., causes people to forget it and removes it from their hearts

“We bring a better one” that is more beneficial for you

“or similar to it.”

This indicates that the abrogation will not be less beneficial to you than the original ruling, because Allah’s bounty always increases, especially for this ummah, for which He has made its religion very easy.

And He tells us that whoever rejects abrogation has rejected His sovereignty and might, as He says: “Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth?”.
​

This has a list of the currently understood abrogations, and notice how many are now abrogated by the verse of the Sword.

List of Abrogations in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

And some fundamentalist Muslims reject the entire notion of abrogation.

Abrogation, the biggest lie against Quran | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

 

[JohnPrewett]

Stop Islamic immigration.

The shooter was a devout Christian....

No...he wasn't....show us where in any teachings of Christianity where it allows the murder of innocent people.

...... Even Christians commit murder you know.

Millions for centuries are deceived/deluded just like you.

The NT Christ mainly just went around healing people. Opposite of a killer.

Yet deluded anti-Christ delight in seeing a killer, then claiming the killer is a follower of Christ.

When you call someone a "Christian" you are claiming you deem that person a follower of Christ

World full of deluded liars about Christ/Christians for centuries.

Main reason is that centuries ago Papist (Pope followers) demanded that Papist be called "Christian."

Especially Papist killers executing the Inquisitions and Crusades

 

[LuckyDuck]

Stop Islamic immigration.

Normally, when I hear that someone who originally came from an Islamic nation, kills people, I go immediately to the "was a terrorist" thinking. As the last I heard in this case was that the attacker wasn't talking, it could have been, instead of Islamic terrorism, a retaliation for the killings of several blacks in a church by a white guy in South Carolina.

 

[Conservative65]

He took the cowards way out. He lived as one, acted as one, and died like one. It's quite clear he was black.

The sort you see on the local crime report in just about every city in America day in and day out, week after week, month after month, year after and yet they and the media want us to believe in black victimhood, black lives matter and other leftwing myths that do nothing but further their fallacious agenda.

Every time I see people post shit like that, I think of how all my black neighbors are great solid middle class law abiding Americans.

I also reflect on the fact that every time in my life I have been victimized by a crime it was a white person that did it, and the odds are if I ever have to use a gun to defend myself I will have to shoot a white person, not a black.

Get real you two.

You're seeing the exception, not the rule.

Are you saying everyone has those experiences because you have? Twice, recently, when crimes have occurred in my neighborhood, it's been blacks doing the crime. They didn't live in the neighborhood. I guess they had fucked up their own government housing complexes so much they were jealous of the white people.

 

[iceberg]

Not really. Like Christianity, Islam contradicts itself. It's also full of explicit rules on when and under what conditions violence and has multiple passages condemning the killing of innocents. The rules are more complicated then the OT.

Interpretation of the Quran is based on the datings of the Surahs of the Quran. The latest prioritized over the earlier ones.

Abrogation in the Qur’an, and the order of its soorahs and verses - islamqa.info

Naskh (abrogation) means moving; thus the meaning of abrogation is moving those who are accountable from one prescribed ruling to another, or waiving the ruling. The Jews used to condemn abrogation and claim that it was not permissible, even though it was referred to in the Torah; thus their rejection of it constituted disbelief and was based on pure whims and desires.

Allah, may He be exalted, has told us of His wisdom in abrogation, and that whenever He abrogates any verse “or cause [it] to be forgotten” i.e., causes people to forget it and removes it from their hearts

“We bring a better one” that is more beneficial for you

“or similar to it.”

This indicates that the abrogation will not be less beneficial to you than the original ruling, because Allah’s bounty always increases, especially for this ummah, for which He has made its religion very easy.

And He tells us that whoever rejects abrogation has rejected His sovereignty and might, as He says: “Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth?”.
​

This has a list of the currently understood abrogations, and notice how many are now abrogated by the verse of the Sword.

List of Abrogations in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

And some fundamentalist Muslims reject the entire notion of abrogation.

Abrogation, the biggest lie against Quran | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

the qur'an (how many ways can we spell 1 book?) is much like the bible. all versions of the bible even. subject to interpretation. if it were not we'd only have 1 religion and everyone would just point to it and go "it's right there man" and any doubters would go "oh, yea....thanks!" and we'd all live in peace.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact

well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...

So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.

<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We don't have the most gun problems.

Like I said states with the most lax gun laws have fewer murders than state with the strictest gun laws.

We have a crime problem not a gun problem. So hold people who commit crimes with guns responsible not people who never will commit a crime with a gun

What civilized country has more gun problems than us?

Prove your claim about states. Link?

Define civilzed

There are plenty of more violent countries than the US

Countries not at war, not third world countries, not countries with no rights, politically stable... I'm talking countries that can actually be fairly compare to the US.

I really don't care about other countries and what they do or don't do.
I don't live in those countries
I do not want to live in those countries

Then why ask me to define civilized and claim there are plenty?

We may have different connotations on what "civilized" means,

 

[Skull Pilot]

And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And yet with increased carry we see increased violent crime. Seems guns do way more damage than good.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

And as I have pointed out to you multiple times that increase is very small and insignificant in comparison to the decline in violent crime over the past 20 years.

Long term trends have far more value than small yearly fluctuations

 

[Skull Pilot]

And, of course, the anti gunners have to hide how often normal, law abiding people use guns each year stop violent criminals.....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And yet with increased carry we see increased violent crime. Seems guns do way more damage than good.

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Correlation is not causation

 

[JimBowie1958]

the qur'an (how many ways can we spell 1 book?) is much like the bible. all versions of the bible even. subject to interpretation. if it were not we'd only have 1 religion and everyone would just point to it and go "it's right there man" and any doubters would go "oh, yea....thanks!" and we'd all live in peace.

While the Quran has a similar style of narrative to much of the Bible,they are not really similar at all.

The Bible is a collection of books and personal letters collected over 1500 years by religious leaders in Israel. The Quran was written by one man in a short span of his life.

The Bible has books of poetry, legal text, highly symbolic prophetic text and geneologies to name a just a few of its literary styles. The Quran is written as declarative text from start to finish.

The system of hermeneutics for the Bible and the Quran are very different also as a result.

Have you ever actually did any study of the two books at all?

 

[iceberg]

the qur'an (how many ways can we spell 1 book?) is much like the bible. all versions of the bible even. subject to interpretation. if it were not we'd only have 1 religion and everyone would just point to it and go "it's right there man" and any doubters would go "oh, yea....thanks!" and we'd all live in peace.

While the Quran has a similar style of narrative to much of the Bible,they are not really similar at all.

The Bible is a collection of books and personal letters collected over 1500 years by religious leaders in Israel. The Quran was written by one man in a short span of his life.

The Bible has books of poetry, legal text, highly symbolic prophetic text and geneologies to name a just a few of its literary styles. The Quran is written as declarative text from start to finish.

The system of hermeneutics for the Bible and the Quran are very different also as a result.

Have you ever actually did any study of the two books at all?

um...my point was that both are subject to interpretation. not going to get into the rest but yes. i have.

 

[Coyote]

Not really. Like Christianity, Islam contradicts itself. It's also full of explicit rules on when and under what conditions violence and has multiple passages condemning the killing of innocents. The rules are more complicated then the OT.

Interpretation of the Quran is based on the datings of the Surahs of the Quran. The latest prioritized over the earlier ones.

Abrogation in the Qur’an, and the order of its soorahs and verses - islamqa.info

Naskh (abrogation) means moving; thus the meaning of abrogation is moving those who are accountable from one prescribed ruling to another, or waiving the ruling. The Jews used to condemn abrogation and claim that it was not permissible, even though it was referred to in the Torah; thus their rejection of it constituted disbelief and was based on pure whims and desires.

Allah, may He be exalted, has told us of His wisdom in abrogation, and that whenever He abrogates any verse “or cause [it] to be forgotten” i.e., causes people to forget it and removes it from their hearts

“We bring a better one” that is more beneficial for you

“or similar to it.”

This indicates that the abrogation will not be less beneficial to you than the original ruling, because Allah’s bounty always increases, especially for this ummah, for which He has made its religion very easy.

And He tells us that whoever rejects abrogation has rejected His sovereignty and might, as He says: “Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth?”.
​

This has a list of the currently understood abrogations, and notice how many are now abrogated by the verse of the Sword.

List of Abrogations in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

And some fundamentalist Muslims reject the entire notion of abrogation.

Abrogation, the biggest lie against Quran | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

Ab

Not really. Like Christianity, Islam contradicts itself. It's also full of explicit rules on when and under what conditions violence and has multiple passages condemning the killing of innocents. The rules are more complicated then the OT.

Interpretation of the Quran is based on the datings of the Surahs of the Quran. The latest prioritized over the earlier ones.

Abrogation in the Qur’an, and the order of its soorahs and verses - islamqa.info

Naskh (abrogation) means moving; thus the meaning of abrogation is moving those who are accountable from one prescribed ruling to another, or waiving the ruling. The Jews used to condemn abrogation and claim that it was not permissible, even though it was referred to in the Torah; thus their rejection of it constituted disbelief and was based on pure whims and desires.

Allah, may He be exalted, has told us of His wisdom in abrogation, and that whenever He abrogates any verse “or cause [it] to be forgotten” i.e., causes people to forget it and removes it from their hearts

“We bring a better one” that is more beneficial for you

“or similar to it.”

This indicates that the abrogation will not be less beneficial to you than the original ruling, because Allah’s bounty always increases, especially for this ummah, for which He has made its religion very easy.

And He tells us that whoever rejects abrogation has rejected His sovereignty and might, as He says: “Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth?”.
​

This has a list of the currently understood abrogations, and notice how many are now abrogated by the verse of the Sword.

List of Abrogations in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

And some fundamentalist Muslims reject the entire notion of abrogation.

Abrogation, the biggest lie against Quran | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

The issue of abrogation in Islam is much more complex than simply claiming that the later verses supplant the earler ones - both verse and ruling can be abrogated, the verse alone, but the ruling stands, the ruling abrogated but the verse remains.

A lot of anti-islam sites either do not realize it or deliberately misconstrue it.

 

[SSGT Bags]

Australia's gun laws stopped mass shootings and reduced homicides, study finds

Frivolous gun laws will never save a single soul - never have never will... fact

well, let's see, who to believe.... your colon, or a scientific study.... hmm, tough call...

So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws or why the murder rate in the UK went UP not down after all their gun laws bans and confiscations.

<<So maybe you can explain since BrainDead won't why states with the most lax gun laws have lower murder rates than states with the strictest gun laws>>


because the States with the strictest gun laws implemented them because of their high gun violence. You really couldn't puzzle that one out all by yourself?

And yet those strict gun laws don't reduce the murder rate do they?

Now tell me why the murder rate in those strict gun law states is higher than Utah the state with the most lax gun laws in the country.

And tell me why despite all the gun laws bans and confiscations in the UK since the 60's the murder rate is actually higher than it was in 1950.

Add to that!
What city has the strictest gun laws?
What city has the highest murder rate?
What city is run by a liberal idiot?

Answer to all three questions is Chicago!