Zone1 Christians, stop debating atheists. Here's why.

[Mashmont]

Just out of curiosity, why do Christians believe that God only speaks to them? What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about every other religion that doesn't have Jesus as the central figure? Are those people destined for hell if they don't believe as Christians do? If that is the case, then why would God turn His back on 2/3rds of the human race?

Incidentally, Jews were the first people that God had anything to do with, mainly because of their forefather Abraham. And, most people in the Jewish faith look at Jesus as a prophet. I've heard many Christians say that if Jews don't convert to Christianity, they are lost. Do they even understand that Jesus was Jewish?

Me? I believe in a Higher Power, and for the sake of convenience when talking to others, I describe it as God. But, I also believe that God is too big to be contained in just one religion or dogma.

God will help those who follow Jesus' teachings, even if they don't or can't call Him by name, so says Vatican II. The problem is, it's extremely hard for non-Christians to do that, but not impossible.

 

[ABikerSailor]

God will help those who follow Jesus' teachings, even if they don't or can't call Him by name, so says Vatican II. The problem is, it's extremely hard for non-Christians to do that, but not impossible.

So God will only help those who follow Jesus? Seems like a huge waste of humanity when only 1/3 of the human race follows Christianity. And, if God won't help them, how can He be called a "loving God" when he doesn't care about the other 2/3rds of the planet? And, if God actually is a loving God, why would He make it so hard for so many people?

That's one of the reasons I don't follow any religion, it's too exclusive and counts too many people out. Me? I believe there is a God, and I believe that He cares for ALL of us, regardless of belief system, as long as we try to do right by each other and care for one another. Religion isn't required.

 

[Mashmont]

So God will only help those who follow Jesus? Seems like a huge waste of humanity when only 1/3 of the human race follows Christianity. And, if God won't help them, how can He be called a "loving God" when he doesn't care about the other 2/3rds of the planet? And, if God actually is a loving God, why would He make it so hard for so many people?

That's one of the reasons I don't follow any religion, it's too exclusive and counts too many people out. Me? I believe there is a God, and I believe that He cares for ALL of us, regardless of belief system, as long as we try to do right by each other and care for one another. Religion isn't required.

Your response tells me you didn't read the post you responded to.

Getting to Heaven is a bit like losing weight or becoming wealthy in that the way to do it is well-known and available to everybody, and most people say they want to yet most people choose not to do it.

As for your last statement; I hear it a lot from non-practicing theists. They say you'll be fine if you treat others well. But by that, they mean do not cheat people, be nice to people, etc. Yet they ignore subtle ways they do real damage to others, for example, having sex outside marriage. Masturbating. Being alcoholic. Doing drugs. Divorcing your spouse. That's why you have to do more than just 'be nice'. You have to follow the rules of Jesus. Often people don't know the rules unless they are members of a Christian faith community, aka church.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Your response tells me you didn't read the post you responded to.

Getting to Heaven is a bit like losing weight or becoming wealthy in that the way to do it is well-known and available to everybody, and most people say they want to yet most people choose not to do it.

As for your last statement; I hear it a lot from non-practicing theists. They say you'll be fine if you treat others well. But by that, they mean do not cheat people, be nice to people, etc. Yet they ignore subtle ways they do real damage to others, for example, having sex outside marriage. Masturbating. Being alcoholic. Doing drugs. Divorcing your spouse. That's why you have to do more than just 'be nice'. You have to follow the rules of Jesus. Often people don't know the rules unless they are members of a Christian faith community, aka church.

You demonstrate yet again the main reason that religion isn't really my thing. I can't believe that a loving God would consign so many of His creations to hell simply for not "following the rules" of one particular faith. You said it yourself in this post........you have to follow the rules of Jesus, and learn what they are from a Christian faith, otherwise you're not getting into Heaven. Why would God only save 1/3 of the human race and let the other 2/3rds slip away into oblivion or worse? Seems kinda wasteful and mean spirited to me. But, like I said, there are a LOT of Christians out there who say "believe as we do, or you're going to hell". What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about those of other religions? Why would a loving God forsake them, just because they don't believe in Jesus, even if they never heard of Him?

As far as the things you listed? Only sex outside of marriage (adultery) is a sin. My belief is that the only real sins are going against the things laid down in the 10 Commandments. Everything else is something that some person started to promote as a "sin", as a way to sound more "pure" than others.

And no......................masturbation isn't bad. Matter of fact, taking matters into your own hands can be quite beneficial on occasion.

 

[Mashmont]

You demonstrate yet again the main reason that religion isn't really my thing. I can't believe that a loving God would consign so many of His creations to hell simply for not "following the rules" of one particular faith. You said it yourself in this post........you have to follow the rules of Jesus, and learn what they are from a Christian faith, otherwise you're not getting into Heaven. Why would God only save 1/3 of the human race and let the other 2/3rds slip away into oblivion or worse? Seems kinda wasteful and mean spirited to me. But, like I said, there are a LOT of Christians out there who say "believe as we do, or you're going to hell". What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about those of other religions? Why would a loving God forsake them, just because they don't believe in Jesus, even if they never heard of Him?

As far as the things you listed? Only sex outside of marriage (adultery) is a sin. My belief is that the only real sins are going against the things laid down in the 10 Commandments. Everything else is something that some person started to promote as a "sin", as a way to sound more "pure" than others.

And no......................masturbation isn't bad. Matter of fact, taking matters into your own hands can be quite beneficial on occasion.

Again, you didn't read the post. The RCC allows for Hindus and Buddhists to reach heaven if they follow the teachings of Jesus, even if they do not know him by name. This also covers those who have never heard of Jesus through no fault of their own. But in today's age, knowledge is readily available. But it seems that you, like many atheists, are intent on blaming some outside force for something that is 100% controllable by you. YOU decide if you are going to behave morally or not. Entry to heaven is available for everyone who chooses it. And these rules are in place, not just for their own sake, but because they are the recipe for the best life for Heaven and for earth.

 

[themirrorthief]

Just out of curiosity, why do Christians believe that God only speaks to them? What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about every other religion that doesn't have Jesus as the central figure? Are those people destined for hell if they don't believe as Christians do? If that is the case, then why would God turn His back on 2/3rds of the human race?

Incidentally, Jews were the first people that God had anything to do with, mainly because of their forefather Abraham. And, most people in the Jewish faith look at Jesus as a prophet. I've heard many Christians say that if Jews don't convert to Christianity, they are lost. Do they even understand that Jesus was Jewish?

Me? I believe in a Higher Power, and for the sake of convenience when talking to others, I describe it as God. But, I also believe that God is too big to be contained in just one religion or dogma.

I believe in God but seeing as there is only one bible and a thousand different churches I dont understand that...and dont tell me your church is the right one...everybody says that....thats why I dont go to church something aint right about it

 

[Mashmont]

I believe in God but seeing as there is only one bible and a thousand different churches I dont understand that...and dont tell me your church is the right one...everybody says that....thats why I dont go to church something aint right about it

The God of Abraham is the one true God, and the church founded by His son, Jesus Christ, is the one true church. That is the Roman Catholic Church. Follow the teachings of Jesus and His Church and you can't go wrong.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Christians, stop debating atheists. Here's why

You’ll continue to lose, among other reasons.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Again, you didn't read the post. The RCC allows for Hindus and Buddhists to reach heaven if they follow the teachings of Jesus,

That’s not a response to the question.

‘Jesus’ is Christianity - Hindus and Buddhists are no longer Hindus and Buddhists when they practice Christian dogma, they’re Christians.

 

[Mashmont]

You’ll continue to lose, among other reasons.

LOL. No atheist has or can ever win a logical debate on atheism vs Catholicism

 

[Mashmont]

That’s not a response to the question.

‘Jesus’ is Christianity - Hindus and Buddhists are no longer Hindus and Buddhists when they practice Christian dogma, they’re Christians.

So you're saying Christian moral teaching is counter to Hinduism?

 

[WinterBorn]

I find it hilarious that the person who challenges atheists, accuses them of destroying the world, and wants to force the US to become officially Roman Catholic, has the audacity to try to council others not to debate.

 

[DudleySmith]

No problem not debating 'atheists', since few of them come here to debate, and being generally uneducated and ignorant couldn't debate anything about religion if they wanted to.

 

[DudleySmith]

You’ll continue to lose, among other reasons.

lol what 'debate' have you ever won?

 

[buttercup]

This is a note to the Christians on the forum who try to convince atheists out of their errors. Stop doing it, because it's futile. Jesus, Himself said so. This post is as much for me as it is for you, because I create OPs with all these great intentions, full of cheer and optimism and charity that mine may be the words that finally convince atheists to see the errors of their ways. But atheists never respond in kind. They get nasty and insulting and before long, I find myself rolling in the mud with them. But this is predictable, and I should know better. Why? Personal experience, plus Jesus and the Bible tell us how this goes:​

​

The Folly of Debates​

Jesus warned His followers to be careful to whom they give the truth to because the enemies of the cross don’t want to really debate to have Christians prove that Jesus existed or that God is real. They only sought an argument for the sake of an argument, therefore Jesus said “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you” (Matt 7:6). If someone asked you to prove the existence of God, don’t go there. They only want to debate in order to prove themselves right, even though it’s humanly impossible to prove that God does not exist, so Solomon would suggest “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself” (Prov 26:4). If we begin to argue with non-believers, they will turn on you, no matter how strong your reasoning’s are. Don’t descend to their level and “Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the good sense of your words” (Prov 23:9) so “Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge” (Prov 14:7), even if you have godly wisdom.

No Excuse for Unbelievers​

If we understood that atheists don’t really want to be shown that God exists and that they are intentionally suppressing the knowledge of God and by “their unrighteousness suppress the truth” (Rom 1:18b) since “what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse” (Rom 1:19-20). Even though “they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened” (Rom 1:21), and so it is pointless to argue with someone who really, in their heart, knows that God exists.

Avoiding Arguments​

The New Testament is full of advice to not argue with non-believers and so writes, “If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God” (1 Cor 11:16). Although this was about certain traditions of the church at Corinth, Christians must “avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. (2 Tim 2:16) and so "the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone” (2 Tim 2:24). All we can do is pray that “God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will” (2 Tim 2:25-26). We must simply “Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers” (2 Tim 2:14) so “avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless” (Titus 3:9).

Conclusion​

The Apostle Paul did a lot of engaging with non-believers, like the Greeks, and asked, “Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world” (1 Cor 1:20)? Even though this was not about the existence of God, the principle is the same, and that is we must “Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith” (1 Tim 6:20-21). Don’t argue with non-believers because no one was ever argued or debated into heaven. That’s not how God saves people. We can win a debate but lose an opportunity to witness. I would rather lose a debate and win a soul than win a debate and lose a soul.



Read more: Should Christians Engage In Arguments With Atheists?

Whoever wrote that brought up some good points. It's really true that "no one was ever argued or debated into heaven."

However, I think there is a place for apologetics. Because some people might have certain intellectual barriers to belief in God based on misunderstandings, false ideas, or just a lack of knowledge of certain things. So apologetics (or civil discussions with people) can break down those barriers. Of course, like the article says, that isn't what saves people... but apologetics can (and does) remove those obstacles to the Gospel.

 

[Michael1985]

This is a note to the Christians on the forum who try to convince atheists out of their errors. Stop doing it, because it's futile. Jesus, Himself said so. This post is as much for me as it is for you, because I create OPs with all these great intentions, full of cheer and optimism and charity that mine may be the words that finally convince atheists to see the errors of their ways. But atheists never respond in kind. They get nasty and insulting and before long, I find myself rolling in the mud with them. But this is predictable, and I should know better. Why? Personal experience, plus Jesus and the Bible tell us how this goes:​

​

The Folly of Debates​

Jesus warned His followers to be careful to whom they give the truth to because the enemies of the cross don’t want to really debate to have Christians prove that Jesus existed or that God is real. They only sought an argument for the sake of an argument, therefore Jesus said “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you” (Matt 7:6). If someone asked you to prove the existence of God, don’t go there. They only want to debate in order to prove themselves right, even though it’s humanly impossible to prove that God does not exist, so Solomon would suggest “Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself” (Prov 26:4). If we begin to argue with non-believers, they will turn on you, no matter how strong your reasoning’s are. Don’t descend to their level and “Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the good sense of your words” (Prov 23:9) so “Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge” (Prov 14:7), even if you have godly wisdom.

No Excuse for Unbelievers​

If we understood that atheists don’t really want to be shown that God exists and that they are intentionally suppressing the knowledge of God and by “their unrighteousness suppress the truth” (Rom 1:18b) since “what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse” (Rom 1:19-20). Even though “they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened” (Rom 1:21), and so it is pointless to argue with someone who really, in their heart, knows that God exists.

Avoiding Arguments​

The New Testament is full of advice to not argue with non-believers and so writes, “If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God” (1 Cor 11:16). Although this was about certain traditions of the church at Corinth, Christians must “avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. (2 Tim 2:16) and so "the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone” (2 Tim 2:24). All we can do is pray that “God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will” (2 Tim 2:25-26). We must simply “Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers” (2 Tim 2:14) so “avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless” (Titus 3:9).

Conclusion​

The Apostle Paul did a lot of engaging with non-believers, like the Greeks, and asked, “Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world” (1 Cor 1:20)? Even though this was not about the existence of God, the principle is the same, and that is we must “Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith” (1 Tim 6:20-21). Don’t argue with non-believers because no one was ever argued or debated into heaven. That’s not how God saves people. We can win a debate but lose an opportunity to witness. I would rather lose a debate and win a soul than win a debate and lose a soul.



Read more: Should Christians Engage In Arguments With Atheists?

IMO, it doesn't matter what the subject is, be it religion, politics, or something else. Entering into a debate with the objective of trying to win one's opponent over to your side is a complete fool's errand.

 

[toobfreak]

This is a note to the Christians on the forum who try to convince atheists out of their errors. Stop doing it, because it's futile.​

1. For those who have seen with their own eyes, there can be no doubt nor debate.
2. For those who have not seen with their own eyes, there can never be enough proof.
3. Those who are ready to see, see even if blinded; those who are not ready to see, cannot be made to see even if you shine it in their face.
4. Those who believe on faith alone, if their faith is true, will eventually truly see. Those who believe on faith alone whose faith is unsure, will eventually lose faith.
5. Those without ever knowing faith cannot imagine its ever being. Those with the courage to truly see, need not faith nor fear of ever forgetting.

 

[toobfreak]

The God of Abraham is the one true God, and the church founded by His son, Jesus Christ, is the one true church.

That is rubbish. God is infinite in form and formlessness, both personal and impersonal. How can you limit him to only what YOU know?
The God of Abraham is just one of an infinite number of iterations of God, each like the facet of the same crystal and they are all true to
those upon whom God intended. It is far more important that people find their true God than just YOUR God or no god at all.

Doing such is a mortal sin for it surely fails every time only driving people farther and farther from finding God.

 

[Mashmont]

Whoever wrote that brought up some good points. It's really true that "no one was ever argued or debated into heaven."

However, I think there is a place for apologetics. Because some people might have certain intellectual barriers to belief in God based on misunderstandings, false ideas, or just a lack of knowledge of certain things. So apologetics (or civil discussions with people) can break down those barriers. Of course, like the article says, that isn't what saves people... but apologetics can (and does) remove those obstacles to the Gospel.

That's good if you have people who sincerely want to dialogue.

 

[Leo123]

Atheists don't know any more about the Universe or what happens after our demise. They just claim others don't know. They discount 'belief' but they themselves believe in no belief. Without belief, humans live by animal instincts.