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I honestly don't know....not by logicCare--
Where do you think faith comes from?
...it's just THERE....that's all i can say about it....I honestly did not ask for it....but it is still there? I honestly don't know....not by logic
Strange really....!!!! but I know I will go to my death believing in it!
Care
what in the world is this obsession with slavery Robert? IS this some kind of requirement for Jesus to be God? WHAT is it that is eating at you?
what is it about freewill that you don't understand? Do you think God was going to give us Free will and then TAKE IT BACK and not be a so called "man of His word"?
Why didn't God step in and give women rights? Why didn't He make women be allowed to vote in the USA from the very beginning? Why didn't he stop the tsunami of 2004? Why does He allow any of the bad to happen?
Because He gave US freewill and HE is not going to renege such.....its part of why we are here on Earth.
He still mourns and He still takes the blame for what happens here....The buck stops with Him because He is the one that gave us our Freewill and decided to leave us alone and step away regarding such....is my understanding of it....
An Example is Soloman, God says He killed Soloman, then a couple of passages after this He proceeds to tell us that Soloman killed himself by falling on his own sword.
What He is telling us, is that the Buck stops with Him, because He gave Soloman freewill....
There are many instances like this throughout the Bible where God first says He did it, then later goes on to say how someone else or something else physically did it.
the "He did it" is Him saying He gave us freewill which caused it to happen, without Him intervening imo and the opinion of some other theologians...
Care
Care--
I get the impression from your post that God is a personality with human emotions to you.
Is that correct?
Is that what God is to you? Kind of a superduper human?
I have no obsession with slavery. I have a problem with Jesus being so "perfect" and yet not condemning slavery.
What simple sentence or two in your opinion would, should or could have been said?Think for a moment about how many lives would of been better if not for a simple sentence or two said by God or Christ?
God is good. Devil is evil
no, not anything in the physical, he/she is Spirit....but with emotion, absolutely....I will probably never know God completely, I think it is an impossible task, besides the fact that you all have no idea how undeserving of knowing Him in full, that I really am....
Care
Jesus wanted everyone to be saved. He even died for it. His message was bigger than slavery. Most humans today are slaves to the world, just like in the time of Jesus. Your point is noted, but of no consequence.
What simple sentence or two in your opinion would, should or could have been said?
He wanted everyone to be saved, that is true. However, Jesus knew that slavery wasn't a good thing. Slavery has never and will never be a good thing in history.
His message was bigger then slavery, that is true. However, as I stated earlier he did comment on smaller things too.
Though could you go into more depth about "slaves to the world". I think I know what you're talking about but want to make sure before I comment on it.
The Greco-Roman institution of slavery was quite a different institution from what you might think, especially if your knowledge of slavery is derived mainly from American history before 1865. The events in the New Testament took place 1,800 years before then and in a completely different part of the world.
...
Roman slavery corresponded most closely to contract employment in our day. Slaves were hard laborers, educators, personal advisors; they filled all occupational niches. Sometimes people sold themselves into slavery in order to pay off debts (this situation is depicted in the New Testament), and sometimes people saved up money to buy their own freedom (Paul commended slaves who did this).
Slaves were legally part of the family, although on a secondary level. The law required masters to provide their slaves with food, clothing, and shelter. There were legal penalties for mistreating slaves (although we might think them inadequate, they did exist). We think of slaves living in leaky shacks in the fields, but in Roman days, slaves lived in the house with the family, but not permanently, because if the master died, the family remained, but the slaves had to go. If a master fell on financial hard times, he had to sell or free the slaves; and if he freed the slaves, he was legally responsible to make sure that they could make a go of it in the world. A slave who had spent his whole life tutoring people in philosophy might need to be taught the realities of the marketplace and be trained in a trade, for example.
More here
I have no obsession with slavery. I have a problem with Jesus being so "perfect" and yet not condemning slavery.
There is no reason to bring Free Will into this. Speaking out against Slavery which he failed to do and taking away our free will as to not commit slavery is TWO different things.
robert, you are just lacking in your Bible Knowledge, and so was I for a very, very, very long time....it's taken me about 10 years of reading it and researching what others have said about it, near 24/7 for the last 10 years...and i am not even close to knowing it all....not even close!
Jesus TOLD US that He was NOT HERE to be involved in what was going on in this world....He was here to show us the Way to the NEXT WORLD....our Spiritual life.
Tsunami of 2004 didn't happen because of free will on our part by the way. That was more him.
We don't know that for certain, yes true if you consider He wasn't going to get involved....the Earth was going to do what it did, and we were not going to be given some sort of warning from Him about it....
But there is also another scenario, I was recently reading that an australian oil exploration was going on the day of the earthquake or the day prior that set off a huge amount of explosions in the sea right over the fault line of the eartquake that caused the tsunami....and scientists, SOME, are saying that this litterally could have caused the whole tragedy.... sooooooooo, maybe freewill DID have something to do with it...
And i do not mean to give the impression that I think God will not intervene with Prayer....because I believe that it is possible that He does...but i look at that as us, our own freewill ASKING Him to be there for us....so, bottom line it is still our freewill.
I'm not saying that blame does not fall on the people who commited the acts, however it is just as much God's fault for not speaking out against slavery through his words or Jesus. If all these people are Christians as the numbers say then Slavery would not of been as big as it was throughout history. Think for a moment about how many lives would of been better if not for a simple sentence or two said by God or Christ?
you could say that about so so so many things though Robert, that happen here on Earth? Think if we were warned of the tsunami, think if the jews were warned about Hilter and the death camps, think if we were warned about Napolean, or the Crusades or Vietnam, or the hurricane that killed all the residents on Galveston island, or the world trade center attack?
I mean, why doesn't God just drop food from the sky and feed all the hungry in the world?
Besides God/Christ felt the need to speak out about other things, and condemn actions by "false preachers" in the church to quote you. So it's obvious that he wasn't completely stepping back no?
I started typing something about slavery during the time of Jesus, but found this to be more succinct:
The word in the New Testament usually translated as “servant” actually means “slave,” and referred to someone who was owned or controlled by someone else, not just a servant hired to do a certain job. Some slaves performed menial household tasks. Others, called “stewards,” supervised the work of lesser servants or managed the master’s finances. In the time of Jesus, some people were slaves because they were born to slave parents. Others were captured in war and were forced to become slaves. Some people actually sold themselves as slaves because they could have a higher standard of life as a slave than if they had to keep struggling to find housing or food on their own.
Some slaves were better educated than their masters and served as teachers of their master’s children. Slaves of rich masters had all kinds of opportunities that they would never have had on their own. But slaves had no freedom, and their owners could do with them whatever they wanted, including selling them to someone else. After slaves became 30 years old, many would become “freedmen,” with duties to the former master and his family. Some slaves earned enough money to buy their own freedom, which would mean that their children could be free also.
I've already commented on the fact Paul said they could buy their way out of freedom.
Slaves and Servants in the Time of Jesus :: American Bible Society
Yes, slaves of rich masters had opportunities they could of never had on their own, they could buy their own freedom, or sold themselves to slavery to pay off a debt/get food. However, the parts I bolded should be noted.
I'm not comparing slave life to the times of Julius's Rome and in America. I'm simply stating that slavery was still damn bad back then, used as a last resort for debt payments, and that they had no rights.
I already showed this link to Allie who said they had rights, legal rights,etc.
I also don't think people captured in war really felt like being slaves either..Just a thought.
Yes....He does work within us...we can choose to listen or we can deny though, and it is up to us...
Does He already know what we will do when faced with circumstances, yes....we just don't know what we will do, till the actual time comes for us...that's again, how I view it.
care
Love one another fairly well covers the eleventh commandment that Jesus already gave.Make it a 11th commandment or something along the lines of that.
Slavery is an abominable act that should be committed by no man or something along the lines of that.
The 10 commandments are all one line, two at the most and are easily explained. Nobody as far as I know refutes what they said. All Christians understand the meaning of them and that they should be followed. People still go against them at times, however the fact they are spoken out against speaks volumes to me.
Hmm. Ok. It's different for me. I had this conversation with a young poster from Iran, Perham. He described God to me and I knew the experience but call it different.
Neither of us attribute personality to God.
That phrase "the world" being key.Jesus wanted everyone to be saved. He even died for it. His message was bigger than slavery. Most humans today are slaves to the world, just like in the time of Jesus. Your point is noted, but of no consequence.
