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Nothing is "elevated". People go by what is in their hearts and what they have learned. All children do not grow at the same pace. God's children are much the same. Some get sidetracked and all are subjected.Yes, yet another gay marriage thread! If you're not interested, by all means pass this one up.
These are some questions I have for any Christian really, but specifically any Christian who is against gay marriage (which is many, I would assume).
I understand that the Bible has a few passages which condemn homosexuality as a sin, one in particular describing it as an "abomination." There can be no debate that in the Christian religion, homosexuality is considered a sin. There CAN be debate as to whether the fact that something is considered a sin in a particular religion should be cause to make it illegal, but that's not what I want to focus on in this thread.
What I DO want to focus on here are the specific verses in the Bible which condemn homosexuality. These verses are found in the Old Testament.
I have heard conflicting opinions from Christians on how important the books of the Old Testament are to Christianity. There are obvious differences between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament, and I have heard many Christians account for this by saying something to the effect that God's word changed with the coming of Jesus. It was no longer so much about the practices and strict behavioral outlines put forth in the Old Testament as it was about accepting Jesus' sacrifice and believing in him, as stressed in the New Testament.
So, it seems that to many Christians the New Testament is much more important than the Old. However, I'm sure there would be many (and I would be inclined to agree with them) who would say that whether or not the New Testament is more important to Christians, the Old Testament cannot be disregarded completely. It contains countless important and fascinating stories and accounts that Christians still cherish, and countless laws and commandments that Christians still abide by.
So, it does make sense to me that, even to Christians, the Old Testament should still have authority. So verses such as these...
Leviticus 18:22 - "You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If there is a man who lies with a man as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
...should not be forgotten by Christians just because they are found in the Old Testament.
Of course, as we all know, these two verses most definitely have NOT been forgotten by Christians.
If Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 carry as much weight as they do in the Christian community, the Old Testament obviously cannot and should not be disregarded. So why are verses such as these...
Leviticus 18:19 - "Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity."
Leviticus 20:18 - "If there is a man who lies with a menstrous woman and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her flow, and she has exposed the flow of her blood; thus both of them shall be cut off from among their people."
...not regarded as highly as the ones forbidding homosexual sex? These two verses are both within just a few verses as the two which forbid homosexuality, and yet you don't often hear Christians preaching about the evils of having sex with a woman while she's on her period. But shouldn't the fact that sex with a menstruating woman is right next to same-sex relations on God's list of immoral sexual acts make doing so just as immoral as homosexuality?
Here are several more Old Testament verses...
Leviticus 20:10 - "If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife...the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 - "If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods'...you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him. But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."
Deuteronomy 14:8 - "And the pig, because it divides the hoof but does not chew the cud, it is unclean for you. You shall not eat any of their flesh nor touch their carcasses."
Deuteronomy 14:22 - "You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, whic comes out of the field every year."
Deuteronomy 22:11 - "You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together."
Deuteronomy 22:22 - "If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die; the man who lay with the woman, and the woman."
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days."
Deuteronomy 23:1 - "No one who is emasculated, or has his male organ cut off, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 23:2 - "No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
Deuteronomy 23:19-20 - "You shall not charge interest to your countrymen; interest on money, food, or anything that may be loaned at interest. You may charge interest to a foreigner, but to your countryman you shall not charge interest."
...that you don't often see Christians abiding by or seeming to give much thought to at all.
So my question is this: the verses in Leviticus which condemn homosexuality are no more holy than the other Levitical laws against immoral sexual acts, or any of the other Levitical laws for that matter...or any of the other verses throughout the Old Testament.
So why is the fact that homosexuality is considered a sin clung to so fervently by so many Christians, when the fact that having sex with a woman on her period, wearing clothes made of both linen and wool, charging interest to your countrymen, eating pork, and being an illegitimate child are all considered sins of the same caliber by the same Biblical standards? Are these of God's laws not as important as the one that forbids homosexuality?
I'd appreciate if there is anyone here who would be able to clarify to me what it is about the Biblical laws forbidding same-sex relations that elevate them above other Biblical laws put forth in the same books of the Bible by the same God.
The Bible is meant to be a personal guide. It is up to you personal to kill these things within your life that inhibits a personal relationship with God. Each portion of scripture is piece and a portion of learning how to overcome the things of the world.
Then of course if you do not believe the Bible is of no effect for you. For those who do believe it is the guide, their tools and toolbox. Jesus told his disciples to examine themselves. Paul talked about circumcision and detailed in Chapter 5 of Galatians about it. "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."Paul went on to say, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
I believe the majority of Christians that you are against are those who do not wish to follow in the footsteps of Sodom and Gomorrah.
"And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"
If 'main line Christianity' accepted homosexuality as something that deserves to be treated equally under the law of the land would it be 'bankrupt' as a religion?If main line Christianity ever accepts homosexuality as biblically correct.
Christianity will be totally bankrupt as a religion.
What about the whole thing about "I won't blow smoke in your face if I don't have to listen to your preaching" bullshit?
Oh forget it. What a fucking pig.
It's called having RESPECT for you fellow man. I keep my smoke out of people's face and all I ask in return is you keep your religion out of my gov't and our schools.
No. Fuck you. You've shown the respect you have for your fellow man. You have so much respect for him that you're ready to rip the constitution apart in order to assure yourself complete isolation from varying points of view. You want to force ppl of faith into hiding and isolation, so you can stroll down the street without being "subjected" to anything you don't want to hear.
Nice. And did I say fuck you? You realize, despite the disproportionate number of losers like yourself that show up on internet message boards, despite that, you are still the minority. In what is still a democratic republic.
I wouldn't worry too much about that. We had a Catholic president and we didn't pledge loyalty to the Vatican. We have yet to surrender to the Holy See. We'll be fine.Well like I said what happens when we get a majority of Catholics. Will we FORGET about the Constitution and allow the Catholic church to dictate our laws?
You aren't the only one; that's definite. The odd thing is, I think you and I are on the same page on a lot of this (beliefs or lack of aside). No offense, but I think I am a lot calmer about it all. So, where does this all go from here?Hey it was Allie who neg reped and personally attacked me so don't act like I'M the instigator.
LOL. Pretty zen, eh? I have my moments, trust me.yeah I call that a definite win for Si modo. then again with an avatar like that, i don't think you could possibly type anything that would make me believe you're upset...
