child dies after workers refuse to fix his medicaid record

[koshergrl]

Welfare is not meant to eliminate the tough choices, or provide a care free living. It is meant to keep children off the streets and from starving for the amount of time it takes their parent to figure out how to provide for them herself.

I've had to choose between electricity and food, or going to the doctor and rent. My mother also made those choices. I didn't go to a dentist regularly growing up, I didn't get regular dental care because POOR PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE MONEY FOR THOSE THINGS. Welfare doesn't mean suddenly all your needs and desires are meant. It means you are in such dire straits you are in danger of starving and living on the street.

This woman did not provide reasonable care. I get calls all the time from clients who say "I've left message after message and nobody has called me back!" and they ARE LYING. I have voicemail, I know who calls, and when. No, you probably won't get an answer if you call at noon or after 5 or on a weekend, or at 4:45. And you won't get a call back if you don't leave a number, or don't have your cell turned on, or don't pick up, or leave a message number that doesn't pick up. Does that mean you give up? NO. It means you make yourself available, it means you KEEP CALLING, it means you bring your happy ass down to the office and sit there until you get some attention.

Welfare offices have hearings requests strewn like confetti throughout their offices, and the federal government requires they be processed immediately. Welfare offices have the numbers to the GOVERNOR'S ADVOCACY OFFICE posted prominently in their offices. All government workers have supervisors who take complaints and act upon them promptly.

This woman did nothing until her kid was dead. She didn't make a reasonable effort to take care of the problem or to draw it to the attention of anyone. She was locked into making one person fix everything, too lazy to seek other avenues of assistance in a system that is GEARED towards providing assistance to EVERYBODY. That is lazy, stupid, and criminal.

She is the only one to blame. If you don't like the system, get the hell out of it. It's not supposed to be and will never be cushy and fun to be on welfare. It's not a premium system with limitless money and resources meant to remove responsibility from parents and eliminate all the difficulty that goes with poverty.

 

[koshergrl]

kosher girl, she did persue it, she had a printout because she persued it...it still didn't fix the problem and the pharmacy still did not issue the meds because the computer did not show him as eligible for medicaid.

OBVIOUSLY she did NOT pursue it to the degree needed, or her kid would have gotten his meds.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Advair does not cost $38, what part of the lack of the Advair is what killed him do you not understand? That is what is in his autopsy report...says nothing about the lack of an inhaler but the fact he went without maintenence meds killed him. Inhalers don't work properly all of the time especially if you don't have maintenence meds. Somehow you think that Advair is an inhaler, it isn't..it is a carticosteroid that is in powder form in a disc that you inhale..and it costs about $250 not the little amount you scream about...you need to read up on this...also, have you bothered to see that she tried to deal with the system...she called and went down to the offices several times a week...she was even given a printout showing her eligible, they still did not fix the glitch even after months of doing this...you clearly never have dealt with those idiots.

Okay, I don't know how to be more clear about this. I will try one more time and then I will wait for your documentation showing he was on a rescue inhaler and it didn't work or I'll assume you pulled this out your back side.

Nobody here has claimed that an Advair inhaler is $38.00. Nobody. If I am wrong you are free to show me you didn't lie to make a point but you actually have a legit point.

Advair IS considered an inhaler. It's inhaled in a powder form. It's a round purple disk and you inhale one dose as prescribed. Then there is also Advair HFA inhaler. That too, is inhaled. Please stop confusing yourself here, it's not a complicated scenario.

A RESCUE inhaler is $38 at Walgreens for the first inhaler and the first inhaler is very likely what this child needed to save his life. We aren't talking daily maintenance meds, we are talking a life saving product on the day he died, one he did not have.

Even the Advair website explains a rescue inhaler is also needed at times.

Using ADVAIR HFA Inhaler - ADVAIR.com

ADVAIR is not for, and should not be used to treat, sudden, severe symptoms of asthma. ADVAIR won't replace a rescue inhaler.

Sometimes when people have chronic asthma they have break through asthma attacks, yeah! Even with Advair! So that is why it's usually pretty standard for someone especially with chronic or severe asthma to have a rescue inhaler. Mom didn't even have the emergency meds for her son. Although you claim otherwise I haven't seen your documentation yet.

I don't need to read up on this but apparently you do. You keep seeing where people are writing Advair is $38 and Mom had a rescue inhaler and it didn't work. Nobody else is seeing these written statements. You also see where she went down to the welfare office several times a week but Mom explains that she called the welfare office several times a week.

Ohhh, but I have dealt with these idiots. I've never been on welfare but as a medical professional I have gone up against them over various issues and I generally won. But I put up the fight.

So let's recap here:

Xchel writes that the autopsy report says he died from a lack of Advair. The article doesn't say that, what it says is:

State investigators later found the boy died of complications from his condition, which was covered by a state health plan that should have paid for the prescription medication he needed.

Please provide this copy of the autopsy report you apparently have. An autopsy report won't say, 'he died because he didn't have Advair or maintenance meds,' it's focused on the diagnosis, not the lack of treatment. It will say he died of asthma.

Annie writes a rescue inhaler is $38. Xchel says that's not true, an Advair inhaler is $250. ??? Just ???

Xchel says the boy had a rescue inhaler and it didn't work. According to the link in the opening post it doesn't say that at all.

Xchel says Mom called the welfare office and went down there several times a week. Mom says she called several times a week.

Are we really to extend you credibility at this point, Xchel?

 

[koshergrl]

And this is the problem. There is something ingrained in a large portion of our population that thinks it is ALWAYS somebody else's fault if something goes wrong. Or more precisely, NEVER their fault.

The fact that this kid died is very sad and tragic. It's awful that the pharmacy folks were difficult and probably uneducated about the programs they have agreed to accept. That is common. The programs are complicated, the computer screens they view are hard to access and hard to read. They don't understand the jargon that is associated with them....I've had pharmacists tell me they have never heard of programs that I know they deal with every single day...

But at the end of the day, it is the MOTHER'S RESPONSIBILITY to get her child the care he needs. These resources are great, but they don't always work without a hitch. You don't STOP TRYING because one particular pharmacist at one particular pharmacy doesn't return your call. Of COURSE they don't return your call, they aren't obligated to return your call.

 

[Xchel]

Advair IS considered an inhaler.

no it is considered a carticosteroid that is a maintenence med...inhaler is for an asthma attack itself...when the maintence meds do not work. You cannot replace the Advair with an emergency inhaler.

Kosher under medicaid they can only use one pharmacy not just go to any pharmacy.

 

[Lovebears65]

Mom sues Denver, three workers over child's death - The Denver Post

but as we know, america has the best health care system in the world!

If only this 9 year old had worked hard in school, got a real job, etc then he wouldnt have been in this position!

working for express scripts ( pharmacy benefit provider) for a few years. I know there is are programs out there that would get her RX by mail with in a day with a RX from her doctor for free. She could have also called the manufacturer if she was low income and got her meds for free. IT was her ignorance why her child died not city of Denver fault

 

[geauxtohell]

It's a non-issue. The kid was either a moderate or severe asthmatic. He needed advair, the combination of inhaled corticosteroid and the long acting B2 agonist. Albuterol is a rescue inhaler. It's not for maintainance. In fact, the number of times you use albuterol indicates the severity of your asthma. It doesn't treat it.

Okay, let's try a new approach.

Who has claimed he did not need Advair? Please list your sources.

He didn't get it, I believe it was a combination of Mom and welfare that he didn't get his meds.

That does not mean he couldn't have used a rescue inhaler to SAVE HIS BLOODY LIFE!

And finally, many doctors do indeed use Albuterol to treat asthma. I'll take their advice over yours. There is more than one school of thinking and some people just don't handle steriods well and can't take it even when not used systemically.

You've said you are a nurse, I believe? Have you ever been in an ED? Have you ever seen someone in status asthmaticus? Or respiratory failure? What does respiratory therapy treat them with? DuoNebs at my hospital:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipratropium_bromide/salbutamol

They don't hand them an albuterol inhaler in triage

Even with the proper meds, people with asthma get intubated all the time. When you stop moving air, all the albuterol in the world isn't going to help you. If it did, then we wouldn't really need the stepwise management protocol for mild, moderate, and severe asthma. Albuterol is where asthma management starts, not stops.

If this kid couldn't handle steroids, then he could have tried a mast cell stabilizer or a leukotriene inhibitor. That was not the case. He was on advair. He was out of his advair, that's how he got into trouble.

 

[geauxtohell]

I DID NOT read that. Please share.

If he couldn't get multiple Rx's filled because he was not in the system, what leads anyone to believe they would cover Albuterol?

A Denver mother whose son died after she was unable to fill his multiple prescriptions because pharmacists kept telling her he was not eligible for Medicaid — even though records proved he was — has filed a lawsuit against the city and county of Denver.

(emphasis my own)

Mom sues Denver, three workers over child's death - The Denver Post

Therefore, you made an assumption that the prescription included albuterol. That is probably a safe assumption.

But, seeing that albuterol is no longer generic and only comes in the brand names Ventolin HFA, Proventil HFA, or ProAir HFA, and each cost around $50, it would seem reasonable that she might not be able to afford it.

And that is such a load of horseshit (the work around the generic albuterol) not your statement.

Good to see you back.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Advair IS considered an inhaler.

That is what we have been trying to tell you.

no it is considered a carticosteroid that is a maintenence med...inhaler is for an asthma attack itself...when the maintence meds do not work. You cannot replace the Advair with an emergency inhaler.

You realize this makes no sense, right? Yes, Advair is a cOrticosteroid, it is an inhaler, and it is not used for emergency break through asthma attacks. Or COPD emergency situations either, for that matter. SOME inhalers are for emergency asthma attacks, Advair is not one of them.

Kosher under medicaid they can only use one pharmacy not just go to any pharmacy.

I'm sure any rational person could figure out that various ins co's including welfare use contracted pharmacies.

BTW, still waiting for you to defend all these claims outlined above. Can you do it?

 

[AnnieInMexico]

It's a non-issue. The kid was either a moderate or severe asthmatic. He needed advair, the combination of inhaled corticosteroid and the long acting B2 agonist. Albuterol is a rescue inhaler. It's not for maintainance. In fact, the number of times you use albuterol indicates the severity of your asthma. It doesn't treat it.

Okay, let's try a new approach.

Who has claimed he did not need Advair? Please list your sources.

He didn't get it, I believe it was a combination of Mom and welfare that he didn't get his meds.

That does not mean he couldn't have used a rescue inhaler to SAVE HIS BLOODY LIFE!

And finally, many doctors do indeed use Albuterol to treat asthma. I'll take their advice over yours. There is more than one school of thinking and some people just don't handle steriods well and can't take it even when not used systemically.

You've said you are a nurse, I believe? Have you ever been in an ED? Have you ever seen someone in status asthmaticus? Or respiratory failure? What does respiratory therapy treat them with? DuoNebs at my hospital:

Ipratropium bromide/salbutamol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They don't hand them an albuterol inhaler in triage

Even with the proper meds, people with asthma get intubated all the time. When you stop moving air, all the albuterol in the world isn't going to help you. If it did, then we wouldn't really need the stepwise management protocol for mild, moderate, and severe asthma. Albuterol is where asthma management starts, not stops.

If this kid couldn't handle steroids, then he could have tried a mast cell stabilizer or a leukotriene inhibitor. That was not the case. He was on advair. He was out of his advair, that's how he got into trouble.

He wasn't in an ED, he was at home. This could have potentially been prevented had Mom done what was necessary to keep emergency meds at home.

Please show me where anyone is saying he should not have had Advair? NOBODY is freak'en saying that! The bottom line, what could be done by BOTH mom and welfare was not done, not even emergency meds that are routine to be kept at home. It may not have escalated to this point had she either done her job as a mother or spent the $38 for emergency HOME meds.

I never claimed he couldn't handle steroids. Please read the post again.

 

[geauxtohell]

Okay, let's try a new approach.

Who has claimed he did not need Advair? Please list your sources.

He didn't get it, I believe it was a combination of Mom and welfare that he didn't get his meds.

That does not mean he couldn't have used a rescue inhaler to SAVE HIS BLOODY LIFE!

And finally, many doctors do indeed use Albuterol to treat asthma. I'll take their advice over yours. There is more than one school of thinking and some people just don't handle steriods well and can't take it even when not used systemically.

You've said you are a nurse, I believe? Have you ever been in an ED? Have you ever seen someone in status asthmaticus? Or respiratory failure? What does respiratory therapy treat them with? DuoNebs at my hospital:

Ipratropium bromide/salbutamol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They don't hand them an albuterol inhaler in triage

Even with the proper meds, people with asthma get intubated all the time. When you stop moving air, all the albuterol in the world isn't going to help you. If it did, then we wouldn't really need the stepwise management protocol for mild, moderate, and severe asthma. Albuterol is where asthma management starts, not stops.

If this kid couldn't handle steroids, then he could have tried a mast cell stabilizer or a leukotriene inhibitor. That was not the case. He was on advair. He was out of his advair, that's how he got into trouble.

He wasn't in an ED, he was at home. This could have potentially been prevented had Mom done what was necessary to keep emergency meds at home.

Please show me where anyone is saying he should not have had Advair? NOBODY is freak'en saying that! The bottom line, what could be done by BOTH mom and welfare was not done, not even emergency meds that are routine to be kept at home. It may not have escalated to this point had she either done her job as a mother or spent the $38 for emergency HOME meds.

I never claimed he couldn't handle steroids. Please read the post again.

Making the point that the emergency management of respiratory failure is not albuterol. If asthmatics in severe exacerbation are really luck, they avoid the tube.

What other emergency home meds could she have had? Albuterol is not for true emergencies it "rescues" people when they have fallen below their baseline. Not when they are dying of bronchoconstriction.

At best, she could have gotten him to an ED, but there is no telling how quickly he decompensated.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Making the point that the emergency management of respiratory failure is not albuterol. If asthmatics in severe exacerbation are really luck, they avoid the tube.

What other emergency home meds could she have had? Albuterol is not for true emergencies it "rescues" people when they have fallen below their baseline. Not when they are dying of bronchoconstriction.

At best, she could have gotten him to an ED, but there is no telling how quickly he decompensated.

I am well aware of your point. MY point is that we will never know if basic emergency asthma meds would have prevented a death on his way to ER or not. Mom didn't do much to try and obtain them. But she has the time and mental ability to sue and do interviews.

 

[geauxtohell]

Making the point that the emergency management of respiratory failure is not albuterol. If asthmatics in severe exacerbation are really luck, they avoid the tube.

What other emergency home meds could she have had? Albuterol is not for true emergencies it "rescues" people when they have fallen below their baseline. Not when they are dying of bronchoconstriction.

At best, she could have gotten him to an ED, but there is no telling how quickly he decompensated.

I am well aware of your point. MY point is that we will never know if basic emergency asthma meds would have prevented a death on his way to ER or not. Mom didn't do much to try and obtain them. But she has the time and mental ability to sue and do interviews.

What emergency meds are those? As far as I know, duonebs have to be administered by a respiratory tech.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

Making the point that the emergency management of respiratory failure is not albuterol. If asthmatics in severe exacerbation are really luck, they avoid the tube.

What other emergency home meds could she have had? Albuterol is not for true emergencies it "rescues" people when they have fallen below their baseline. Not when they are dying of bronchoconstriction.

At best, she could have gotten him to an ED, but there is no telling how quickly he decompensated.

I am well aware of your point. MY point is that we will never know if basic emergency asthma meds would have prevented a death on his way to ER or not. Mom didn't do much to try and obtain them. But she has the time and mental ability to sue and do interviews.

What emergency meds are those? As far as I know, duonebs have to be administered by a respiratory tech.

Most ED respiratory techs don't make house calls. I think you are in over your head on this one.

 

[geauxtohell]

I am well aware of your point. MY point is that we will never know if basic emergency asthma meds would have prevented a death on his way to ER or not. Mom didn't do much to try and obtain them. But she has the time and mental ability to sue and do interviews.

What emergency meds are those? As far as I know, duonebs have to be administered by a respiratory tech.

Most ED respiratory techs don't make house calls. I think you are in over your head on this one.

No doubt. You claimed the mother should have had the emergency medications at home. I am asking you what emergency medications those are.

What did you expect her to hit the kid with etomodate/succinylcholine and stick a tube down his throat?

 

[AnnieInMexico]

What emergency meds are those? As far as I know, duonebs have to be administered by a respiratory tech.

Most ED respiratory techs don't make house calls. I think you are in over your head on this one.

No doubt. You claimed the mother should have had the emergency medications at home. I am asking you what emergency medications those are.

What did you expect her to hit the kid with etomodate/succinylcholine and stick a tube down his throat?

And here I would have thought the obvious would have come to you naturally. I won't make that error again. A HOME emergency med is a rescue inhaler. You see, that is what is used until paramedics get there. But Mom didn't even have THAT.

Allow me to explain, there is a difference between home emergency meds and ED emergency meds. Another example of a home emergency med is an EpiPen for severe allergic reactions.

Seriously, if you can't come up with a bit of logic I really have to be done wasting time with you. There are others here that wish serious and logical discussion.

You get one more chance at being rational then your chances are up.

 

[Xchel]

Most ED respiratory techs don't make house calls. I think you are in over your head on this one.

No doubt. You claimed the mother should have had the emergency medications at home. I am asking you what emergency medications those are.

What did you expect her to hit the kid with etomodate/succinylcholine and stick a tube down his throat?

And here I would have thought the obvious would have come to you naturally. I won't make that error again. A HOME emergency med is a rescue inhaler. You see, that is what is used until paramedics get there. But Mom didn't even have THAT.

Allow me to explain, there is a difference between home emergency meds and ED emergency meds. Another example of a home emergency med is an EpiPen for severe allergic reactions.

Seriously, if you can't come up with a bit of logic I really have to be done wasting time with you. There are others here that wish serious and logical discussion.

You get one more chance at being rational then your chances are up.

inhalers are not emergency medications. Epipen is for allergies not for asthma. I have to wonder how it is you are a nurse..you realize you cannot diagnose anyone with anything right? You learn little about the diagnostics and it seems you really need to brush up on Respiratory therapy because you clearly know nothing about it. An inhaler can only be used TWICE and that is it because after that you need to find an emergency room!!!. It is useless after that and it can only relieve you from an attack and does not always stop them and after two or three puffs is not going to stop one..the inhaler stops the occasional wheeze not a full blown attack. I had an attack and my inhaler did not work..and that was after using ADVAIR religiously and combivent the combivent did not work after the fourth puff I passed out behind the wheel of a car...yeah that is not an emergency med...it is a relief med..you get your tail to the hospital when the attack is beyond a wheeze because you might suffocate. Stick with crap you know something about Annie, this isn't it...immigration isn't your strong suit either.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

No doubt. You claimed the mother should have had the emergency medications at home. I am asking you what emergency medications those are.

What did you expect her to hit the kid with etomodate/succinylcholine and stick a tube down his throat?

And here I would have thought the obvious would have come to you naturally. I won't make that error again. A HOME emergency med is a rescue inhaler. You see, that is what is used until paramedics get there. But Mom didn't even have THAT.

Allow me to explain, there is a difference between home emergency meds and ED emergency meds. Another example of a home emergency med is an EpiPen for severe allergic reactions.

Seriously, if you can't come up with a bit of logic I really have to be done wasting time with you. There are others here that wish serious and logical discussion.

You get one more chance at being rational then your chances are up.

inhalers are not emergency medications. Epipen is for allergies not for asthma. I have to wonder how it is you are a nurse..you realize you cannot diagnose anyone with anything right? You learn little about the diagnostics and it seems you really need to brush up on Respiratory therapy because you clearly know nothing about it. An inhaler can only be used TWICE and that is it because after that you need to find an emergency room!!!. It is useless after that and it can only relieve you from an attack and does not always stop them and after two or three puffs is not going to stop one..the inhaler stops the occasional wheeze not a full blown attack. I had an attack and my inhaler did not work..and that was after using ADVAIR religiously and combivent the combivent did not work after the fourth puff I passed out behind the wheel of a car...yeah that is not an emergency med...it is a relief med..you get your tail to the hospital when the attack is beyond a wheeze because you might suffocate. Stick with crap you know something about Annie, this isn't it...immigration isn't your strong suit either.

Stupid twat;

Allergies can bring on brochospasm. EpiPens can fix that. OMG I just can't believe so much stupid is wrapped up in one ignorant twat.

Using Albuterol can buy you time to get to an ER.

Fucking idiot.

How long have you been on welfare? You have the mentality and ignorance so one can only assume you are a teat sucking welfare loser. You defend to the end welfare users to the point of insanity. You can't defend a single one of your claims, mutliple people have called you on this and you STILL pretend to have a clue.

Twat.

 

[Xchel]

And here I would have thought the obvious would have come to you naturally. I won't make that error again. A HOME emergency med is a rescue inhaler. You see, that is what is used until paramedics get there. But Mom didn't even have THAT.

Allow me to explain, there is a difference between home emergency meds and ED emergency meds. Another example of a home emergency med is an EpiPen for severe allergic reactions.

Seriously, if you can't come up with a bit of logic I really have to be done wasting time with you. There are others here that wish serious and logical discussion.

You get one more chance at being rational then your chances are up.

inhalers are not emergency medications. Epipen is for allergies not for asthma. I have to wonder how it is you are a nurse..you realize you cannot diagnose anyone with anything right? You learn little about the diagnostics and it seems you really need to brush up on Respiratory therapy because you clearly know nothing about it. An inhaler can only be used TWICE and that is it because after that you need to find an emergency room!!!. It is useless after that and it can only relieve you from an attack and does not always stop them and after two or three puffs is not going to stop one..the inhaler stops the occasional wheeze not a full blown attack. I had an attack and my inhaler did not work..and that was after using ADVAIR religiously and combivent the combivent did not work after the fourth puff I passed out behind the wheel of a car...yeah that is not an emergency med...it is a relief med..you get your tail to the hospital when the attack is beyond a wheeze because you might suffocate. Stick with crap you know something about Annie, this isn't it...immigration isn't your strong suit either.

Stupid twat;

Allergies can bring on brochospasm. EpiPens can fix that. OMG I just can't believe so much stupid is wrapped up in one ignorant twat.

Using Albuterol can buy you time to get to an ER.

Fucking idiot.

How long have you been on welfare? You have the mentality and ignorance so one can only assume you are a teat sucking welfare loser. You defend to the end welfare users to the point of insanity. You can't defend a single one of your claims, mutliple people have called you on this and you STILL pretend to have a clue.

Twat.

keep calling people names and insulting..it is amusing Annie, because it shows that you have lost your argument and have nothing further to add. How is it I am on welfare when I don't live in the US? Epipens are for allergic reactions alone...they are not for asthma.
I see your problem with this woman is she is poor....it isn't about whether she was right or wrong he son and her deserve to die because they aren't wealthy according to your statement above. I don't need welfare and never have...but I also dont' condemn people for being poor like you do. I hope you don't practice with that nursing degree of yours because you would make a lousy nurse.

 

[AnnieInMexico]

inhalers are not emergency medications. Epipen is for allergies not for asthma. I have to wonder how it is you are a nurse..you realize you cannot diagnose anyone with anything right? You learn little about the diagnostics and it seems you really need to brush up on Respiratory therapy because you clearly know nothing about it. An inhaler can only be used TWICE and that is it because after that you need to find an emergency room!!!. It is useless after that and it can only relieve you from an attack and does not always stop them and after two or three puffs is not going to stop one..the inhaler stops the occasional wheeze not a full blown attack. I had an attack and my inhaler did not work..and that was after using ADVAIR religiously and combivent the combivent did not work after the fourth puff I passed out behind the wheel of a car...yeah that is not an emergency med...it is a relief med..you get your tail to the hospital when the attack is beyond a wheeze because you might suffocate. Stick with crap you know something about Annie, this isn't it...immigration isn't your strong suit either.

Stupid twat;

Allergies can bring on brochospasm. EpiPens can fix that. OMG I just can't believe so much stupid is wrapped up in one ignorant twat.

Using Albuterol can buy you time to get to an ER.

Fucking idiot.

How long have you been on welfare? You have the mentality and ignorance so one can only assume you are a teat sucking welfare loser. You defend to the end welfare users to the point of insanity. You can't defend a single one of your claims, mutliple people have called you on this and you STILL pretend to have a clue.

Twat.

keep calling people names and insulting..it is amusing Annie, because it shows that you have lost your argument and have nothing further to add. How is it I am on welfare when I don't live in the US? Epipens are for allergic reactions alone...they are not for asthma.
I see your problem with this woman is she is poor....it isn't about whether she was right or wrong he son and her deserve to die because they aren't wealthy according to your statement above. I don't need welfare and never have...but I also dont' condemn people for being poor like you do. I hope you don't practice with that nursing degree of yours because you would make a lousy nurse.

You bitch, when YOU suggest I think it is 'cool' to murder 9 year old children in PMs, all bets are off. You ignorant piece of filth. How sick are you anyway?