Why do I have to pay for society's screw-ups?

[Patrick2]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

 

[theHawk]

The answer to that is easy:

Liberalism.

 

[uscitizen]

Are you an American? If so you pay your part.
Or you could leave of course.

 

[toxicmedia]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

In the socialized medicine countries of Europe...providers and suppliers don't get rich from medicine. Medical care in the US is becoming out of reach for the middle class due to costs. I work in the medical insurance industry and know what I'm talking about. Medical plans keep getting more expensive, and the deductibles and copays keep rising. Already...individual/family plans are bankrupting families who shell out $3000 a month for useless insurance. Pretty soon, the big employer plans will do the same thing. The insurance companies keep squeezing providers with lower contract rates. The plan members get less, and the doctors get less. By 2030, at this rate...the government will have to allow people to just die for lack of care, or provide it themselves. Medical care through medical insurance in America is even more unsustainable than our debt.

I don't want it to go socialized...but I can't see how it won't. And it won't be any different if Republicans get elected.

 

[uscitizen]

Now Toxic we all know that the medical industry will regulate itself to the benefit of the USA?

 

[toxicmedia]

The answer to that is easy:

Liberalism.

No offense....but this repsonse is vacuuous, intellectually repulsive, and completely ignores the realities in the healthcare industry.

I'm not casting dispersions on you...but not everything is allways the fault of liberals.

 

[toxicmedia]

Now Toxic we all know that the medical industry will regulate itself to the benefit of the USA?

The problem is that providers, insurers, and suppliers can't all make ever increasing amounts of money when the cost to patients keeps going up, and their salaries keep going down, or staying flat.

It's simple math. Care costs too much, and it's getting worse exponentially. Obamacare doesn't do enough, and Republicans don't want to do anything at all, and I don't even know what could be done.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

screw ups? I thought you were talking about the bankers. And the geezers paid for medicare and social security so it is the fraud and theft by corporastions and neocons that are the screw ups.

 

[Patrick2]

Are you an American? If so you pay your part.
Or you could leave of course.

So you're saying we should all joyfully pay for the screwups or leave? Nice choice.

 

[uscitizen]

Now Toxic we all know that the medical industry will regulate itself to the benefit of the USA?

The problem is that providers, insurers, and suppliers can't all make ever increasing amounts of money when the cost to patients keeps going up, and their salaries keep going down, or staying flat.

It's simple math. Care costs too much, and it's getting worse exponentially. Obamacare doesn't do enough, and Republicans don't want to do anything at all, and I don't even know what could be done.

We have about waited too long to do anything without having a major impact economically on the USA.

 

[uscitizen]

Are you an American? If so you pay your part.
Or you could leave of course.

So you're saying we should all joyfully pay for the screwups or leave? Nice choice.

Sure why not?

Many say this country should be ran like a business and if you did not pay a business you would be kicked out.

 

[Patrick2]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

In the socialized medicine countries of Europe...providers and suppliers don't get rich from medicine. Medical care in the US is becoming out of reach for the middle class due to costs. I work in the medical insurance industry and know what I'm talking about. Medical plans keep getting more expensive, and the deductibles and copays keep rising. Already...individual/family plans are bankrupting families who shell out $3000 a month for useless insurance. Pretty soon, the big employer plans will do the same thing. The insurance companies keep squeezing providers with lower contract rates. The plan members get less, and the doctors get less. By 2030, at this rate...the government will have to allow people to just die for lack of care, or provide it themselves. Medical care through medical insurance in America is even more unsustainable than our debt.

I don't want it to go socialized...but I can't see how it won't. And it won't be any different if Republicans get elected.

The issue raised wasn't socialized health plans. Everyone knows health care costs are high - I personally pay about $10,000/year in premiums. The costs all stem, one way or another, to government malfeasance, but the cure is ever more government control? And you have it exactly backwards - going down the obamacare path will eventually lead to eight-month waiting lists for eg MRIs, with people dying on the waiting list, and rationed care, with specific decisions about who should live and who should die, as is done with the NHS's death panel (N.I.C.E.) in the UK.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

And I don't want to pay for the fire department because some idiot falls asleep while smoking or an idiot that can't cook, or I don't want to pay for the police department because some screw up wants to go out at 2 am in the morning a can't protect himself and i don't want to pay for a military because some idiot Islamaphobe is scared.

 

[Patrick2]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

screw ups? I thought you were talking about the bankers.

Are you confused what forum section you're in??

And the geezers paid for medicare and social security so it is the fraud and theft by corporastions and neocons that are the screw ups.

Old people end up taking out of SS 4-10 times what they put in. Read up.

 

[toxicmedia]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

In the socialized medicine countries of Europe...providers and suppliers don't get rich from medicine. Medical care in the US is becoming out of reach for the middle class due to costs. I work in the medical insurance industry and know what I'm talking about. Medical plans keep getting more expensive, and the deductibles and copays keep rising. Already...individual/family plans are bankrupting families who shell out $3000 a month for useless insurance. Pretty soon, the big employer plans will do the same thing. The insurance companies keep squeezing providers with lower contract rates. The plan members get less, and the doctors get less. By 2030, at this rate...the government will have to allow people to just die for lack of care, or provide it themselves. Medical care through medical insurance in America is even more unsustainable than our debt.

I don't want it to go socialized...but I can't see how it won't. And it won't be any different if Republicans get elected.

The issue raised wasn't socialized health plans. Everyone knows health care costs are high - I personally pay about $10,000/year in premiums. The costs all stem, one way or another, to government malfeasance, but the cure is ever more government control? And you have it exactly backwards - going down the obamacare path will eventually lead to eight-month waiting lists for eg MRIs, with people dying on the waiting list, and rationed care, with specific decisions about who should live and who should die, as is done with the NHS's death panel (N.I.C.E.) in the UK.

I met with Canadian and British providers at a convention/conference back in 2005. That whole "waiting 6 months or longer to see a specialist in the UK and Canada" isn't true. The average wait for an MRI is two weeks in Canada, and about 3 in England. I'm interested in seeing anything you have read about that long waiting period that wasn't published by anti healthcare reform folks. I'm not doubting you, just skeptical because I'm only hearin that complaint from rightwing Americans.

 

[Patrick2]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

And I don't want to pay for the fire department because some idiot falls asleep while smoking or an idiot that can't cook, or I don't want to pay for the police department because some screw up wants to go out at 2 am in the morning a can't protect himself

Idiotic comparisons. The person starting the fire might harm others, the fatso only harms himself, but others end up paying for it. And even the non-stupid can be crime victims through no substantial fault of their own

and i don't want to pay for a military because some idiot Islamaphobe is scared.

Yaaaa - all those hallucinations about a "9/11" happening - all urban myth.

 

[toxicmedia]

Now Toxic we all know that the medical industry will regulate itself to the benefit of the USA?

The problem is that providers, insurers, and suppliers can't all make ever increasing amounts of money when the cost to patients keeps going up, and their salaries keep going down, or staying flat.

It's simple math. Care costs too much, and it's getting worse exponentially. Obamacare doesn't do enough, and Republicans don't want to do anything at all, and I don't even know what could be done.

We have about waited too long to do anything without having a major impact economically on the USA.

That's right...even though profit margins are technically low in the healthcare industry...the flow of big money keeps a lot of people in high paying jobs. Healthcare is a huge part of GDP. In order for people to be able to get healthcare from 2020 on....some people are going to have to make less money. I'm not sure how that can happen either.

 

[Patrick2]

In the socialized medicine countries of Europe...providers and suppliers don't get rich from medicine. Medical care in the US is becoming out of reach for the middle class due to costs. I work in the medical insurance industry and know what I'm talking about. Medical plans keep getting more expensive, and the deductibles and copays keep rising. Already...individual/family plans are bankrupting families who shell out $3000 a month for useless insurance. Pretty soon, the big employer plans will do the same thing. The insurance companies keep squeezing providers with lower contract rates. The plan members get less, and the doctors get less. By 2030, at this rate...the government will have to allow people to just die for lack of care, or provide it themselves. Medical care through medical insurance in America is even more unsustainable than our debt.

I don't want it to go socialized...but I can't see how it won't. And it won't be any different if Republicans get elected.

The issue raised wasn't socialized health plans. Everyone knows health care costs are high - I personally pay about $10,000/year in premiums. The costs all stem, one way or another, to government malfeasance, but the cure is ever more government control? And you have it exactly backwards - going down the obamacare path will eventually lead to eight-month waiting lists for eg MRIs, with people dying on the waiting list, and rationed care, with specific decisions about who should live and who should die, as is done with the NHS's death panel (N.I.C.E.) in the UK.

I met with Canadian and British providers at a convention/conference back in 2005. That whole "waiting 6 months or longer to see a specialist in the UK and Canada" isn't true. The average wait for an MRI is two weeks in Canada, and about 3 in England. I'm interested in seeing anything you have read about that long waiting period that wasn't published by anti healthcare reform folks. I'm not doubting you, just skeptical because I'm only hearin that complaint from rightwing Americans.

I've seen tons of stuff contradicting your claims, but I'll let you tutor yourself. It's easy:

Google nhs and horror story, national institute for clinical excellence and protest, nhs hospital conditions, nhs and sent home to die, etc etc etc. All you can stomach is just a few clicks away - read up.

 

[Patrick2]

The problem is that providers, insurers, and suppliers can't all make ever increasing amounts of money when the cost to patients keeps going up, and their salaries keep going down, or staying flat.

It's simple math. Care costs too much, and it's getting worse exponentially. Obamacare doesn't do enough, and Republicans don't want to do anything at all, and I don't even know what could be done.

We have about waited too long to do anything without having a major impact economically on the USA.

That's right...even though profit margins are technically low in the healthcare industry...the flow of big money keeps a lot of people in high paying jobs. Healthcare is a huge part of GDP. In order for people to be able to get healthcare from 2020 on....some people are going to have to make less money. I'm not sure how that can happen either.

Conceptually, it's quite easy - correct the many ways government screws up the system.

 

[American Horse]

Think what it does to the nation's health bill (insurance premiums, medicare/medicaid costs) that there are lots of super-fat people who have never seen the inside of a gym.

About 150 years ago, doctors began to notice that it was smokers who were much more likely to get lung cancer.

How many druggies and drunks don't bother to pay for health insurance?

How many don't care what they eat, as long as it tastes good? Someone said in that department, americans are walking garbage cans.

How many gays think it's their constitutional right to screw each other w/o protection, and it's the taxpayer who must bail them out by paying for their meds plus zillions of dollars in research on the disease?

This extends of course beyond health related issues.

How many people have worked in maufacturing, not seen the handwriting on the wall for decades that their job will be exported, and don't train themselves for something new, but just go on the public dole when their job finally disappears? Or they stupidly demand government tariffs or the like?

How many mothers with children have to get welfare because the mother made an obviously stupid choice in getting pregnant and then dumped by some creep?

How many geezers didn't provide for their old-age, thinking medicare/social security is supposed to be their retirement plan?

screw ups? I thought you were talking about the bankers.

Are you confused what forum section you're in??

And the geezers paid for medicare and social security so it is the fraud and theft by corporastions and neocons that are the screw ups.

Old people end up taking out of SS 4-10 times what they put in. Read up.

You actually have those ratios right Pat, however, a good retirement plan, designed to grow from real investments could provide for that, IF an individual began paying as they are required to do with SS, at the beginning of their life's work. They don't all operate like the SS system, or the labor unions.

I'll just say this; if there had been no SS, or if I could've opped out of it, I would've made it my business to invest in a mix of bonds, CDs, stocks, even annuities to reduce risk and to grow my money into more than the $1,200 a month I get now.

Almost al the problems we have with healthcare stem from government mandates and interference, and not just on the federal level. Maine, at this moment in time, has only a single health insurer operating there.

EDIT: As for someone back there who said the Republicans "don't want to do anything" . . . Please inform yourself. What they do want to do is bring competition, the free market, choices to the person seeking healthcare by connecting them more directly to the cost of their medical treatments, and having them make decisions by shopping around in a variety of ways. Nowadays a $7.00 copay is considered to be too much and is denounced by those who have up to now almost totally seperated the patient from the cost of paying for their healthcair, except by their paying of federal taxes.