Capitalism Saved The Miners

[JBeukema]

Capitalism is the free cooperation of society. They're not separate entities.

Socialism is cooperation. Capitalism is competition. That's the whole point. Try to remember your own rhetoric.

Incorrect.

Capitalism is more than competition. It is the voluntary exchange of one value for another value by free participants in the market.

Not quite. That's simply trade and it was found in the world, including in the market, long before the rise of capitalism.

 

[JBeukema]

Mines can collapse regardless of who believes what.

Technology has been and can be developed by people who hold a number of ideologies.

Do you really think no technology was developed before the Industrial Revolution brought the rise of the capitalist society?

 

[L.K.Eder]

guns don't kill people, capitalism kills people.

Ideologies don't kill people.

Other people kill people.

For a number of reasons and in the name of numerous ideologies of all colours.

aha.

thanks.

how do ideologies save people then?

 

[Paulie]

Socialism is cooperation. Capitalism is competition. That's the whole point. Try to remember your own rhetoric.

Incorrect.

Capitalism is more than competition. It is the voluntary exchange of one value for another value by free participants in the market.

Not quite. That's simply trade and it was found in the world, including in the market, long before the rise of capitalism.

Private trade for profit is capitalism. Capitalism was borne out of trade.

 

[JBeukema]

If you want to go down the road the Bod is going down, then you can argue that capitalism caused the accident in the first place (unless it is a govt-owned mine, in which case I stand corrected!)...

Without capitalist ventures, there is no productive enterprise for gubmint to leech off of.

You've got that backwards.

You're both oversimplifying things out of your own pigheadedness.

 

[uscitizen]

Capitalism had children working in mines.

You think we have problems now, look back at miners before child labor laws, Unions, and other labor laws.

 

[Oddball]

Umm if you notice the president was all over the rescue effort.

He did not just fly over in a helicopter and say that is bad....

I also noticed that his golf cart was nowhere in sight.

 

[uscitizen]

Umm if you notice the president was all over the rescue effort.

He did not just fly over in a helicopter and say that is bad....

I also noticed that his golf cart was nowhere in sight.

Boehner was down there?
He is obviously a much smarter president than we have had for a generation or so.

 

[L.K.Eder]

are the chinese miners who die in their mines in the hundreds every year killed by capitalism or by communism?

 

[Paulie]

are the chinese miners who die in their mines in the hundreds every year killed by capitalism or by communism?

They're digging holes to America.

 

[JBeukema]

Incorrect.

Capitalism is more than competition. It is the voluntary exchange of one value for another value by free participants in the market.

Not quite. That's simply trade and it was found in the world, including in the market, long before the rise of capitalism.

Private trade for profit is capitalism. Capitalism was borne out of trade.

If the trade is capitalism, how can capitalism have been born out of the trade?

You really think barter and trade didn't exist before the rise of the capitalist system?

 

[Sallow]

Capitalism is the free cooperation of society. They're not separate entities.

Socialism is cooperation. Capitalism is competition. That's the whole point. Try to remember your own rhetoric.

Incorrect.

Capitalism is more than competition. It is the voluntary exchange of one value for another value by free participants in the market.

What???

You just described the BARTER system.

Please.

Definition of CAPITALISM
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

 

[uscitizen]

Injury Trends in Mining


Since the earliest days of mining, the job of digging coal and other useful materials out of the earth has been considered one of the world's most dangerous occupations. Public concern about the toll of deaths, injuries and destruction in mine accidents has prompted passage of much-needed safety legislation and intensified the search for safer methods and improved training practices and technology. Growing cooperation among industry, labor and government also has contributed to making mining safer and more healthful, especially in recent years.

As a result of these initiatives, mining deaths and injuries have significantly declined in this century, although even the current relatively low injury numbers and frequency rates are still unacceptable to safety professionals in the American mining community and the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA).

The Tragic Early Toll

From 1880 to 1910, mine explosions and other accidents claimed thousands of victims. The deadliest year in U.S. coal mining history was 1907, when 3,242 deaths occurred. That year, America's worst mine explosion ever killed 358 people near Monongah, WV. While metal and nonmetal (non-coal) mining was less deadly than coal mining, available records for the era show that it, too, was highly hazardous. Fires, explosions and cave-ins caused many deaths and injuries. One of the deadliest non-coal mining accidents involved a mine fire in Montana that killed 163 men in 1917.

With each passing decade, the annual number of mining deaths and the even more significant rates of injuries (measuring numbers of injuries against hours worked) have declined.

Decades of Difficult but Impressive Progress

Total deaths in all types of U.S. mining, which had averaged 1,500 or more during earlier decades, decreased on average during the 1990's, to under 100 and reached a record low of 55 in 2004. There were 65 mining fatalities in 2007. The average annual injuries to miners have also decreased steadily.

Where annual coal mining deaths had numbered more than 1,000 a year in the early part of the 20th century, they decreased to an average of about 451 annual fatalities in the 1950s, and to 141 in the 1970s. The yearly average in coal mining decreased to 30 fatalities from 2001-2005.

Less dramatic yet still impressive have been the safety gains in metal and nonmetal mining. There was an average of 233 deaths yearly in the 1930s, compared to 32 fatalities from 2001-2005.

MSHA Fact Sheets - Injury Trends in Mining

 

[Big Fitz]

guns don't kill people, capitalism kills people.

Huh... capitalism kills people. Okay. Every form of government kills, this is true.

SOCIALISM...they kill their own... deliberately. That's the only thing that philosophy does well. Not only that, it's a core part of it's function. Purge purge purge dissention.

At least Capitalism doesn't deliberately expunge the innocent.

 

[Paulie]

Not quite. That's simply trade and it was found in the world, including in the market, long before the rise of capitalism.

Private trade for profit is capitalism. Capitalism was borne out of trade.

If the trade is capitalism, how can capitalism have been born out of the trade?

You really think barter and trade didn't exist before the rise of the capitalist system?

Because the first time someone privately traded value for value, capitalism was born.

I didn't really have to clarify that, did I?

 

[JBeukema]

guns don't kill people, capitalism kills people.

Ideologies don't kill people.

Other people kill people.

For a number of reasons and in the name of numerous ideologies of all colours.

aha.

thanks.

how do ideologies save people then?

It's you assertion they do. You defend it.

 

[L.K.Eder]

guns don't kill people, capitalism kills people.

Huh... capitalism kills people. Okay. Every form of government kills.

SOCIALISM...they kill their own... deliberately. That's the only thing that philosophy does well.

read the next posts, you will then maybe get why i posted what i posted.

 

[JBeukema]

are the chinese miners who die in their mines in the hundreds every year killed by capitalism or by communism?

Hunger and falling rocks, I'd imagine.

Actually, thirst would get them before hunger.

Possibly infection in some cases.


But I digress.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Ideologies don't kill people.

Other people kill people.

For a number of reasons and in the name of numerous ideologies of all colours.

aha.

thanks.

how do ideologies save people then?

It's you assertion they do. You defend it.

it is the assertion presented in the OP and in the thread title.

i mock it.

 

[boedicca]

Socialism is cooperation. Capitalism is competition. That's the whole point. Try to remember your own rhetoric.

Incorrect.

Capitalism is more than competition. It is the voluntary exchange of one value for another value by free participants in the market.

What???

You just described the BARTER system.

Please.

Definition of CAPITALISM
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

What I said is completely consistent with competition. The buyer is a free participant who chooses among competing products or services. He offers something of value (i.e. money or a payment plan) in exchange for the selected good or service - in a voluntary transaction.