Can things appear out of nothing or nowhere?

[frigidweirdo]

Do you believe that things can appear out of nothing or out of nowhere?

So, miracles.

Jesus feeds the five thousand with five loaves and two fish.

Clearly the math doesn't add up, which implies he got something out of nowhere.

Jesus turns water into wine. Well something had to come out of nowhere to make that happen. Wine contains water, but also other stuff.

Light appears out of nowhere "let there be light."

Just some examples of something happening from nothing.


Another argument is that God has to exist because how could the Earth just come from nothing?

Well, if you believe in some of these miracles and you believe that something can appear out of nothing, then surely it could also be possible that the Earth, the universe, everything came from nothing.

Also, where did God come from? Did he also come from nothing?

 

[there4eyeM]

The explanations for the presence of the universe sound very close to everything coming from nothing.

 

[harmonica]

the bible says so, so it must be true

 

[there4eyeM]

We should keep in mind that, be it 'spirituality' or quantum physics, we are dealing with things that language has great problems encompassing. Our vocabulary and references do not match the complexity of the subject(s).

 

[fncceo]

Do you believe that things can appear out of nothing or out of nowhere?

Yep ...

 

[hobelim]

Do you believe that things can appear out of nothing or out of nowhere?

So, miracles.

Jesus feeds the five thousand with five loaves and two fish.

Clearly the math doesn't add up, which implies he got something out of nowhere.

Jesus turns water into wine. Well something had to come out of nowhere to make that happen. Wine contains water, but also other stuff.

Light appears out of nowhere "let there be light."

Just some examples of something happening from nothing.


Another argument is that God has to exist because how could the Earth just come from nothing?

Well, if you believe in some of these miracles and you believe that something can appear out of nothing, then surely it could also be possible that the Earth, the universe, everything came from nothing.

Also, where did God come from? Did he also come from nothing?

The story is not about Jesus poofing fish sandwiches out of thin air.

The story is about how Jesus taught such a large, pissed off, and skeptical crowd what he learned from God to their satisfaction with only seven followers represented by five loaves and two fish and ending up with twelve disciples in the process, represented by 12 baskets full of "uneaten pieces", things that the rest of the people could not swallow.

A miracle!

 

[there4eyeM]

As science is telling us that 'matter' isn't really what it seems, but rather just concentrations of energy (not solid in the sense of how we perceive things), what appears to us is best described as illusion. It isn't that it doesn't exist or is false, just that interposing our way of seeing doesn't explain 'reality'. The capacity for the 'energy soup' that makes up the universe to produce what it does has yet to receive an explanation we can digest. Thus, we have to say we don't know, and that 'something coming from nothing' may just be the way it seems to us.

 

[Mac1958]

As science is telling us that 'matter' isn't really what it seems, but rather just concentrations of energy (not solid in the sense of how we perceive things), what appears to us is best described as illusion. It isn't that it doesn't exist or is false, just that interposing our way of seeing doesn't explain 'reality'. The capacity for the 'energy soup' that makes up the universe to produce what it does has yet to receive an explanation we can digest. Thus, we have to say we don't know, and that 'something coming from nothing' may just be the way it seems to us.

Yup. We just don't know. Yet. And we may not know during our lifetimes.

That really is okay. That doesn't mean we're flawed or dumb. We just don't know yet.

If a person is desperate for this answer NOW, they can invent something if they wish. Humans have always done that. That doesn't make it true.
.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We simply do not have the language, the symbols, or the logic to comprehend and competently explain how the universe came into being.

OP is fun to discuss, but it is not important.

 

[hobelim]

We simply do not have the language, the symbols, or the logic to comprehend and competently explain how the universe came into being.

OP is fun to discuss, but it is not important.

The OP is a question based on the premise that there was something supernatural about the miracle of the multiplication of the loaves.

Its not important only if you don't care what the story is actually about.

You might as well argue about whether inanimate objects can come to life based on the story of Pinocchio.

For me that wouldn't be very much fun. It would be a monumental waste of time that misses the point and teaching of the story completely....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Go for it, hobelim, but those who believe in the supernatural fully understand the principles of proof are different than those for the natural.

 

[hobelim]

Go for it, hobelim, but those who believe in the supernatural fully understand the principles of proof are different than those for the natural.

Different principles of proof my ass. There was nothing supernatural about the story of the multiplication of the loaves.

Anyone who thinks that the story is about Jesus poofing fish sandwiches out of thin air has been diverted by superstitious archaic lore into living in denial of reality without any understanding of what the story is actually about much less the power of God.

You might as well put a bag over your head and go for a jog in a mine field.

 

[fncceo]

but those who believe in the supernatural

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Arthur C. Clarke

"There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

Hamlet

In other words ... in a cosmology where we clearly don't understand the nature of our own existence... the concept of a being which we would define as divine may very well be capable of manipulating elements to set in motion a chain of events that leads to our creation.

Religious scriptures could be a metaphorical manifestation of something greater than ourselves to which we might be hard-wired to accept as true.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Go for it, hobelim, but those who believe in the supernatural fully understand the principles of proof are different than those for the natural.

Different principles of proof my ass. There was nothing supernatural about the story of the multiplication of the loaves.

Anyone who thinks that the story is about Jesus poofing fish sandwiches out of thin air has been diverted by superstitious archaic lore into living in denial of reality without any understanding of what the story is actually about much less the power of God.

You might as well put a bag over your head and go for a jog in a mine field.

See, you don't have the language, logic, or symbols to redefine the story as something it was not.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Do you believe that things can appear out of nothing or out of nowhere?

So, miracles.

Jesus feeds the five thousand with five loaves and two fish.

Clearly the math doesn't add up, which implies he got something out of nowhere.

Jesus turns water into wine. Well something had to come out of nowhere to make that happen. Wine contains water, but also other stuff.

Light appears out of nowhere "let there be light."

Just some examples of something happening from nothing.


Another argument is that God has to exist because how could the Earth just come from nothing?

Well, if you believe in some of these miracles and you believe that something can appear out of nothing, then surely it could also be possible that the Earth, the universe, everything came from nothing.

Also, where did God come from? Did he also come from nothing?

Simple Answer:

Everything comes from something....

No matter if it is the void and two atoms smashing at a high rate of speed to spark what we now call life or man barding about Anu being their today God.

Everything comes from something and our minds are too small and primitive to wrap our thoughts around the true reality of this Universe...

Just imagine how far we are from the Center of the Universe where it all started and realize we are nothing in the eye of time...

 

[there4eyeM]

We simply do not have the language, the symbols, or the logic to comprehend and competently explain how the universe came into being.

OP is fun to discuss, but it is not important.

The OP is a question based on the premise that there was something supernatural about the miracle of the multiplication of the loaves.

Its not important only if you don't care what the story is actually about.

You might as well argue about whether inanimate objects can come to life based on the story of Pinocchio.

For me that wouldn't be very much fun. It would be a monumental waste of time that misses the point and teaching of the story completely....

These stories can be looked at in varying ways. Some fit nicely into the form that Zen sometimes takes. They push our reasoning so far in one direction that we snap into another, fuller 'seeing'.
For example, we can take the words of Jesus at the last supper as meaning bread and wine turn into flesh and blood. That is the superficial meaning. If we take other things Jesus said and incorporate them into the picture, the entire thing can be seen differently. He said he was one with "the Father". Taking 'God' to be One, the All of Everything, that would mean that Jesus, as well, was everywhere and in all things. Thus, the bread and the wine and his 'physical' body were inseparable. Notice, he did say that this was to be remembered at every meal, not just once in a while in a ceremony.
The above is not intended to maintain any divinity for Jesus, merely to point out that it is consistent with an oriental, holistic view of existence rather than the occidental 'infinite pieces' view. Looking at it this way, at least, changes the 'miracle' part into 'realization'.

 

[there4eyeM]

Do you believe that things can appear out of nothing or out of nowhere?

So, miracles.

Jesus feeds the five thousand with five loaves and two fish.

Clearly the math doesn't add up, which implies he got something out of nowhere.

Jesus turns water into wine. Well something had to come out of nowhere to make that happen. Wine contains water, but also other stuff.

Light appears out of nowhere "let there be light."

Just some examples of something happening from nothing.


Another argument is that God has to exist because how could the Earth just come from nothing?

Well, if you believe in some of these miracles and you believe that something can appear out of nothing, then surely it could also be possible that the Earth, the universe, everything came from nothing.

Also, where did God come from? Did he also come from nothing?

Simple Answer:

Everything comes from something....

No matter if it is the void and two atoms smashing at a high rate of speed to spark what we now call life or man barding about Anu being their today God.

Everything comes from something and our minds are too small and primitive to wrap our thoughts around the true reality of this Universe...

Just imagine how far we are from the Center of the Universe where it all started and realize we are nothing in the eye of time...

...or, that 'time' is just in our eye.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Do you believe that things can appear out of nothing or out of nowhere?

So, miracles.

Jesus feeds the five thousand with five loaves and two fish.

Clearly the math doesn't add up, which implies he got something out of nowhere.

Jesus turns water into wine. Well something had to come out of nowhere to make that happen. Wine contains water, but also other stuff.

Light appears out of nowhere "let there be light."

Just some examples of something happening from nothing.


Another argument is that God has to exist because how could the Earth just come from nothing?

Well, if you believe in some of these miracles and you believe that something can appear out of nothing, then surely it could also be possible that the Earth, the universe, everything came from nothing.

Also, where did God come from? Did he also come from nothing?

The story is not about Jesus poofing fish sandwiches out of thin air.

The story is about how Jesus taught such a large, pissed off, and skeptical crowd what he learned from God to their satisfaction with only seven followers represented by five loaves and two fish and ending up with twelve disciples in the process, represented by 12 baskets full of "uneaten pieces", things that the rest of the people could not swallow.

A miracle!

That hardly answers the question of the thread.

 

[Pop23]

First Particle Successfully Quantum Teleported Into Space; Are Transporters Next?

It appears that we can. Scientists appear to have already done so at a minimal level, and we are just a few thousand years past when a God is said to have done it at a larger level.

 

[miketx]

Yet nothing is something.