Zone1 Can someone explain the "Two Thieves on Calvary Hill" story from the Bible?

[MarathonMike]

My recollection from Bible school is murky but this is what I recall: One thief said to Jesus "If you are the God you say you are, then why don't you save yourself and us from this misery?" The second thief said (I think) "We don't deserve to be saved I accept the punishment for what I've done. It is wrong for you to expect Jesus to save us." The first thief went to Hell but the second thief went to Heaven.

Can a Christian explain their understanding of this bible story? I could certainly be incorrect on my recounting, but this is one that has always puzzled me.

 

[JGalt]

My recollection from Bible school is murky but this is what I recall: One thief said to Jesus "If you are the God you say you are, then why don't you save yourself and us from this misery?" The second thief said (I think) "We don't deserve to be saved I accept the punishment for what I've done. It is wrong for you to expect Jesus to save us." The first thief went to Hell but the second thief went to Heaven.

Can a Christian explain their understanding of this bible story? I could certainly be incorrect on my recounting, but this is one that has always puzzled me.

The Two Men Crucified Next To Jesus Were

 

[jwoodie]

John 3:16

 

[Foxfyre]

Luke 23 RSV:
32 Two others also, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. 33 And when they came to the place which is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on the right and one on the left. 34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”[b] And they cast lots to divide his garments. 35 And the people stood by, watching; but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” 36 The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him vinegar, 37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” 38 There was also an inscription over him,[c] “This is the King of the Jews.”

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into[d] your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.

As with so many anecdotal passages in the Bible, the literal meaning in the eyes of the scribe who wrote it down is elusive. But I have always taken this particular story to emphasize that salvation cannot be earned--those guys on the cross had no time for good deeds to atone for their sins--and it is never too late to accept the salvation that Jesus, Immanuel (God with us) offers us.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The Two Men Crucified Next To Jesus Were

Another scare them story:

The Two Men Crucified Next To Jesus Were Very Different...​

---

Which Are You?​

 

[JGalt]

Another scare them story:

The Two Men Crucified Next To Jesus Were Very Different...​

---

Which Are You?​

I'm the Roman with the big fucking hammer.

 

[Donald H]

Our 'Ding' has told us that the bibles are not to be taken literally.

There is no explanation other than the invented story that it's a message of some sort.

 

[MarathonMike]

John 3:16

That's not helpful, thanks.

 

[MarathonMike]

Our 'Ding' has told us that the bibles are not to be taken literally.

There is no explanation other than the invented story that it's a message of some sort.

That's not helpful.

 

[Winston]

Can we make this really simple. Take responsibility for your actions. Thief one was like, "Let me down, I don't want to take responsibility for what I did. I want a free pass. Come on messiah, give me a get off the cross for free card". The second thief willing accepted responsibility and sought salvation in Christ.

 

[MarathonMike]

Can we make this really simple. Take responsibility for your actions. Thief one was like, "Let me down, I don't want to take responsibility for what I did. I want a free pass. Come on messiah, give me a get off the cross for free card". The second thief willing accepted responsibility and sought salvation in Christ.

My puzzlement comes from why thief number 2 leads a terrible life and then based on a two minute death bed repentance gets to spend eternity in Heaven while the other thief said the wrong thing and went to the other place.

 

[jwoodie]

That's not helpful, thanks.

Read Luke 23: 42-43 first. The thief acknowledges that Jesus is the Messiah ("your kingdom") and Jesus then takes him to Heaven ("paradise"). This is exactly what John 3:16 means.

 

[Winston]

My puzzlement comes from why thief number 2 leads a terrible life and then based on a two minute death bed repentance gets to spend eternity in Heaven while the other thief said the wrong thing and went to the other place.

I completely understand. That aspect of salvation has always bothered me. But I know this, God requires three things of us. Be kind, be humble, and love justice. Did not the second thief love justice? At least he accepted justice. And that all falls back on accepting responsibility for one's actions.

 

[MarathonMike]

Read Luke 23: 42-43 first. The thief acknowledges that Jesus is the Messiah ("your kingdom") and Jesus then takes him to Heaven ("paradise"). This is exactly what John 3:16 means.

I get that the thief is sincere in what he says and feels. My question is this: Does how you conduct yourself throughout your life then not matter if you repent at the end? That is my takeaway from this story.

 

[Cougarbear]

Luke 23 RSV:
32 Two others also, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. 33 And when they came to the place which is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on the right and one on the left. 34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”[b] And they cast lots to divide his garments. 35 And the people stood by, watching; but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” 36 The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him vinegar, 37 and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” 38 There was also an inscription over him,[c] “This is the King of the Jews.”

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into[d] your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.

As with so many anecdotal passages in the Bible, the literal meaning in the eyes of the scribe who wrote it down is elusive. But I have always taken this particular story to emphasize that salvation cannot be earned--those guys on the cross had no time for good deeds to atone for their sins--and it is never too late to accept the salvation that Jesus, Immanuel (God with us) offers us.

John 2:17-26 has a partial answer. Verse 26, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." To me, this goes to the believer who knew of Jesus Christ, had the opportunities to follow Christ and either chose to follow or not follow. So, what is the difference with the thief on the cross who asked for forgiveness on his death bed? He did not know about Christ until that moment that he was the Lord God, Son of the Father God. So, because Christ knew in the man's heart, he was being truthful about his faith in Christ, that he would get an opportunity in spirit prison to hear the fulness of the Gospel and decide in better circumstances in paradise. Paradise is simply where good people go who will be preached to in spirit prison. Those in Hell, in spirit prison, may also get that opportunity if they did not get that chance in life. such as the other thief.
1Peter 4:5-6, "Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

 

[Winston]

I get that the thief is sincere in what he says and feels. My question is this: Does how you conduct yourself throughout your life then not matter if you repent at the end? That is my takeaway from this story.

Again, I struggle with the same thing that you are struggling with. What is the point of attempting to live a righteous life if, all you have to do at the end, is just ask forgiveness. I really don't think it is that simple, or that easy.

But I point you to a parable,

“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

Matthew 18:12-14 NIV | Biblica

“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it,

www.biblica.com

 

[Moonglow]

The actions of Jesus challenge the idea you don't have to be baptized.

 

[Cougarbear]

Again, I struggle with the same thing that you are struggling with. What is the point of attempting to live a righteous life if, all you have to do at the end, is just ask forgiveness. I really don't think it is that simple, or that easy.

But I point you to a parable,

“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

Matthew 18:12-14 NIV | Biblica

“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it,

www.biblica.com

ohn 2:17-26 has a partial answer. Verse 26, "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." To me, this goes to the believer who knew of Jesus Christ, had the opportunities to follow Christ and either chose to follow or not follow. So, what is the difference with the thief on the cross who asked for forgiveness on his death bed? He did not know about Christ until that moment that he was the Lord God, Son of the Father God. So, because Christ knew in the man's heart, he was being truthful about his faith in Christ, that he would get an opportunity in spirit prison to hear the fulness of the Gospel and decide in better circumstances in paradise. Paradise is simply where good people go who will be preached to in spirit prison. Those in Hell, in spirit prison, may also get that opportunity if they did not get that chance in life. such as the other thief.
1Peter 4:5-6, "Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

 

[MarathonMike]

Paradise is simply where good people go who will be preached to in spirit prison. Those in Hell, in spirit prison, may also get that opportunity if they did not get that chance in life. such as the other thief.

What is paradise and what is spirit prison? I have never heard either of those terms in the context of Christianity or the AfterLife.

 

[Meriweather]

Can a Christian explain their understanding of this bible story? I could certainly be incorrect on my recounting, but this is one that has always puzzled me.

Both Matthew and Mark's Gospels relate that both thieves reviled Jesus. It is only in Luke's where we hear that apparently one of these thieves had a change of heart. He asked Jesus to remember him when he came into his Kingdom. Words of humility, plus attempting to protect the suffering Jesus from the words of others. There is something intrinsically good deep in the heart of one suffering person reaching out to comfort another who is also suffering.

Recall Jesus words of, "I was sick and imprisoned and you visited me..." The good thief visited Jesus when he was sick and imprisoned.